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Old 04-14-2019, 08:43 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by pierdude View Post
Your state is THE example on how to do a reef program.
Yep!!!
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by pierdude View Post
Your state is THE example on how to do a reef program.
Yes, it is.. Our snapper population is unreal...
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:21 AM
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I cant go out to 60'-100' of water, drop down some cut threadfins on hard bottom and not catch ARS. On one of our trips a few weeks back we did an overnight trip, and had to move off the spot as that was all we were catching. We do not have a shortage of ARS..
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:21 AM
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My neighbor is a commercial red snapper fisherman.
They went out earlier this week on April 9th, were gone for 25 hours, and returned with 3,700 pounds of (gutted) red snapper, and one beeliner (Vermillion Snapper)

This was his sixth trip of 2019, and he brings in 3,500 to 4,000 pounds each time. Fish market buys all he's got the next morning.
He guarantees that the stocks of ARS are not endangered, at least not in the Western Gulf of Mexico.
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by savage View Post
My neighbor is a commercial red snapper fisherman.
They went out earlier this week on April 9th, were gone for 25 hours, and returned with 3,700 pounds of (gutted) red snapper, and one beeliner (Vermillion Snapper)

This was his sixth trip of 2019, and he brings in 3,500 to 4,000 pounds each time. Fish market buys all he's got the next morning.
He guarantees that the stocks of ARS are not endangered, at least not in the Western Gulf of Mexico.
Yep.. And to think I can't catch/keep but 2 per person (6 or 8 total depending on people).. If I fished every single day allowed (27 fishing days), I could keep 54 fish.. 54 fish for the entire year..
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:51 PM
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As REc fishermen, we should all try to sharpen our skills a little and target/catch other fish. The crying that has been done over red snapper is crazy. I am glad that there has been some movement to get more fishing days, but I quit specifically targeting rd snapper years ago. Too many other fish in the gulf.

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Old 04-14-2019, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
What is your formula for assigning the personal quota?
There's a million ways to skin this cat. Many states have harvest targets for big game, migratory waterfowl, predators and yes even fish too.

Take the 3 "problem" species reds, trigger and AJ's, and keep other species the same. Translate the fish into pounds, since there can be a lot of variation between keeper red snapper and AJ throw in a slot limit for those species. Maybe allow 1 or 2 over slot trophy fish per year but this way you protect the big breeding females which produce exponentially more eggs than mature fish half their size, and still lets people target the big ones, and it cuts down on the chance of over fishing the quota. Then you determine how many fish that equates to. The recreational private catch target is about 3.5 million pounds. Figure an average of 12 lbs for a keeper and you get roughly 300,000 red snapper per year. You look at the average catch effort for a red snapper season, the average guy probably gets out once per week, it's a month long season so 4 trips = 8 red snapper. Thats around 35,000 snapper tags for the gulf coast. I don't know what the private angler numbers look like but if you want more tags you cut the quota per person.

Some other things you can do to spread the opportunity is you can run a lottery with a points system to give the losers a better chance next year, or split the tags by species a list where you buy your first choice like triggerfish, go to the back of the line, and maybe have a chance to buy your second choice red snapper tag, by the time the third choice AJ comes around maybe they're already sold out. If you want to raise money do what western states do and auction a small number of tags to raise money earmarked for conservation (or say a new, more comprehensive reef fish survey so we can raise the limits). Keep the incentive program for turning in lion fish tails for extra tags that don't count towards the quota.You could also have a limited number of volume tags for the guys who go out fishing a ton or sell smaller, more limited tags for guys who might only want to go out once. You can slow the season down during spawning season by only being open odd or even days, and have people report their catch by app or card or phone system. Maybe you even have a deadline queue system like some sports events set up. If the harvest is way behind schedule, or if you're done for the season you can turn in your tags or maybe open it up to everyone in December until the quota is met. There are all sorts of opportunities and directions you can go

Is it complicated? Not much more than the other crazy seasons we have. Is it frustrating? Not nearly as frustrating or stressful as the current system. Right now if your boat is down for maintenance or you're deployed or busy at work for the season, or if the weather gods hate you you're missing the whole season. This gives you a chance to fish as you want and maximize flexibility. It's not going to make everyone happy, hell nothing will, but this most likely makes life easier for the average angler. I'll take anything better than the "Sorry there were 5' seas each weekend of the season? Tough shit the season is closed. Better luck next year!" setup we have now.
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Old 04-14-2019, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bluescholar View Post
There's a million ways to skin this cat. Many states have harvest targets for big game, migratory waterfowl, predators and yes even fish too.

Take the 3 "problem" species reds, trigger and AJ's, and keep other species the same. Translate the fish into pounds, since there can be a lot of variation between keeper red snapper and AJ throw in a slot limit for those species. Maybe allow 1 or 2 over slot trophy fish per year but this way you protect the big breeding females which produce exponentially more eggs than mature fish half their size, and still lets people target the big ones, and it cuts down on the chance of over fishing the quota. Then you determine how many fish that equates to. The recreational private catch target is about 3.5 million pounds. Figure an average of 12 lbs for a keeper and you get roughly 300,000 red snapper per year. You look at the average catch effort for a red snapper season, the average guy probably gets out once per week, it's a month long season so 4 trips = 8 red snapper. Thats around 35,000 snapper tags for the gulf coast. I don't know what the private angler numbers look like but if you want more tags you cut the quota per person.

Some other things you can do to spread the opportunity is you can run a lottery with a points system to give the losers a better chance next year, or split the tags by species a list where you buy your first choice like triggerfish, go to the back of the line, and maybe have a chance to buy your second choice red snapper tag, by the time the third choice AJ comes around maybe they're already sold out. If you want to raise money do what western states do and auction a small number of tags to raise money earmarked for conservation (or say a new, more comprehensive reef fish survey so we can raise the limits). Keep the incentive program for turning in lion fish tails for extra tags that don't count towards the quota.You could also have a limited number of volume tags for the guys who go out fishing a ton or sell smaller, more limited tags for guys who might only want to go out once. You can slow the season down during spawning season by only being open odd or even days, and have people report their catch by app or card or phone system. Maybe you even have a deadline queue system like some sports events set up. If the harvest is way behind schedule, or if you're done for the season you can turn in your tags or maybe open it up to everyone in December until the quota is met. There are all sorts of opportunities and directions you can go

Is it complicated? Not much more than the other crazy seasons we have. Is it frustrating? Not nearly as frustrating or stressful as the current system. Right now if your boat is down for maintenance or you're deployed or busy at work for the season, or if the weather gods hate you you're missing the whole season. This gives you a chance to fish as you want and maximize flexibility. It's not going to make everyone happy, hell nothing will, but this most likely makes life easier for the average angler. I'll take anything better than the "Sorry there were 5' seas each weekend of the season? Tough shit the season is closed. Better luck next year!" setup we have now.
Great post..
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Old 04-14-2019, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by macabear View Post
Yes, imagine indeed.. Sounds almost too good to be true.. This is exactly what I have been harping/clamoring for for years.. It is really simple thing to do.. Have a mandatory registration.. Assign XXX amount to each participant whether it be pounds total or count.. Have them report (like now) what they have caught.. When you reach your personal quota, done.. Fish when, how you want.. Just seems too easy to me..

I like this but I do see a problem with it. In Mississippi we have an app on our phones that we have to participate in to fish for ARS. Basically before you you leave the launch you fill out a trip tickets. When you get back you input results. It is very easy to lie about results. Iím not saying I do but you know a lot of guys probably are.
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bluescholar View Post
There's a million ways to skin this cat. Many states have harvest targets for big game, migratory waterfowl, predators and yes even fish too.

Take the 3 "problem" species reds, trigger and AJ's, and keep other species the same. Translate the fish into pounds, since there can be a lot of variation between keeper red snapper and AJ throw in a slot limit for those species. Maybe allow 1 or 2 over slot trophy fish per year but this way you protect the big breeding females which produce exponentially more eggs than mature fish half their size, and still lets people target the big ones, and it cuts down on the chance of over fishing the quota. Then you determine how many fish that equates to. The recreational private catch target is about 3.5 million pounds. Figure an average of 12 lbs for a keeper and you get roughly 300,000 red snapper per year. You look at the average catch effort for a red snapper season, the average guy probably gets out once per week, it's a month long season so 4 trips = 8 red snapper. Thats around 35,000 snapper tags for the gulf coast. I don't know what the private angler numbers look like but if you want more tags you cut the quota per person.

Some other things you can do to spread the opportunity is you can run a lottery with a points system to give the losers a better chance next year, or split the tags by species a list where you buy your first choice like triggerfish, go to the back of the line, and maybe have a chance to buy your second choice red snapper tag, by the time the third choice AJ comes around maybe they're already sold out. If you want to raise money do what western states do and auction a small number of tags to raise money earmarked for conservation (or say a new, more comprehensive reef fish survey so we can raise the limits). Keep the incentive program for turning in lion fish tails for extra tags that don't count towards the quota.You could also have a limited number of volume tags for the guys who go out fishing a ton or sell smaller, more limited tags for guys who might only want to go out once. You can slow the season down during spawning season by only being open odd or even days, and have people report their catch by app or card or phone system. Maybe you even have a deadline queue system like some sports events set up. If the harvest is way behind schedule, or if you're done for the season you can turn in your tags or maybe open it up to everyone in December until the quota is met. There are all sorts of opportunities and directions you can go

Is it complicated? Not much more than the other crazy seasons we have. Is it frustrating? Not nearly as frustrating or stressful as the current system. Right now if your boat is down for maintenance or you're deployed or busy at work for the season, or if the weather gods hate you you're missing the whole season. This gives you a chance to fish as you want and maximize flexibility. It's not going to make everyone happy, hell nothing will, but this most likely makes life easier for the average angler. I'll take anything better than the "Sorry there were 5' seas each weekend of the season? Tough shit the season is closed. Better luck next year!" setup we have now.
Fish tags = Catch Shares. The VERY thing that is threatening our fisheries future - we should certainly NOT be promoting them.

No need to weigh or count each trout, redfish, or flounder even though there are exponentially more fishermen fishing for them in an exponentially smaller area than the snapper grounds. Itís a trap, and is not for just red snapper - Catch Shares will expand to every single fish managed by the Gulf Council if we let them. Time to delegate management of ALL of our fisheries to the states as the US Constitution intended.

Sector Separation COULD work if under state management - private recs have their own quota and for-hire has their own quota. The problem is that they are setting the stage for transfer % of ownership of ALL federally managed species to a few corporations - this would not happen under state management, thus the insistence of NOAA Fisheries of maintaining control of the for-hire fleet. Itís a scam masquerading as fisheries ďscienceĒ.

Most IFQ Shareholders live in the eastern Gulf but their boats are fishing in the western Gulf. Is it in the best interests of Texas and Louisiana to have roughly 70% of ALL the red snapper caught off of their coasts shipped outside of their state for sale? There need to be an excise tax on all fish exported out of state for sale.

Itís time to get back to REAL fisheries management.




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Old 04-15-2019, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by joshd472 View Post



I like this but I do see a problem with it. In Mississippi we have an app on our phones that we have to participate in to fish for ARS. Basically before you you leave the launch you fill out a trip tickets. When you get back you input results. It is very easy to lie about results. Iím not saying I do but you know a lot of guys probably are.
Yes, and here in lies one of the biggest problems.. This is a big problem now and it caused the feds (in previous years) to use much larger margins of error..
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post


Fish tags = Catch Shares. The VERY thing that is threatening our fisheries future - we should certainly NOT be promoting them.

No need to weigh or count each trout, redfish, or flounder even though there are exponentially more fishermen fishing for them in an exponentially smaller area than the snapper grounds. Itís a trap, and is not for just red snapper - Catch Shares will expand to every single fish managed by the Gulf Council if we let them. Time to delegate management of ALL of our fisheries to the states as the US Constitution intended.

Sector Separation COULD work if under state management - private recs have their own quota and for-hire has their own quota. The problem is that they are setting the stage for transfer % of ownership of ALL federally managed species to a few corporations - this would not happen under state management, thus the insistence of NOAA Fisheries of maintaining control of the for-hire fleet. Itís a scam masquerading as fisheries ďscienceĒ.

Most IFQ Shareholders live in the eastern Gulf but their boats are fishing in the western Gulf. Is it in the best interests of Texas and Louisiana to have roughly 70% of ALL the red snapper caught off of their coasts shipped outside of their state for sale? There need to be an excise tax on all fish exported out of state for sale.

Itís time to get back to REAL fisheries management.
Great post..
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:03 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by bluescholar View Post
There's a million ways to skin this cat. Many states have harvest targets for big game, migratory waterfowl, predators and yes even fish too.

Take the 3 "problem" species reds, trigger and AJ's, and keep other species the same. Translate the fish into pounds, since there can be a lot of variation between keeper red snapper and AJ throw in a slot limit for those species. Maybe allow 1 or 2 over slot trophy fish per year but this way you protect the big breeding females which produce exponentially more eggs than mature fish half their size, and still lets people target the big ones, and it cuts down on the chance of over fishing the quota. Then you determine how many fish that equates to. The recreational private catch target is about 3.5 million pounds. Figure an average of 12 lbs for a keeper and you get roughly 300,000 red snapper per year. You look at the average catch effort for a red snapper season, the average guy probably gets out once per week, it's a month long season so 4 trips = 8 red snapper. Thats around 35,000 snapper tags for the gulf coast. I don't know what the private angler numbers look like but if you want more tags you cut the quota per person.

Some other things you can do to spread the opportunity is you can run a lottery with a points system to give the losers a better chance next year, or split the tags by species a list where you buy your first choice like triggerfish, go to the back of the line, and maybe have a chance to buy your second choice red snapper tag, by the time the third choice AJ comes around maybe they're already sold out. If you want to raise money do what western states do and auction a small number of tags to raise money earmarked for conservation (or say a new, more comprehensive reef fish survey so we can raise the limits). Keep the incentive program for turning in lion fish tails for extra tags that don't count towards the quota.You could also have a limited number of volume tags for the guys who go out fishing a ton or sell smaller, more limited tags for guys who might only want to go out once. You can slow the season down during spawning season by only being open odd or even days, and have people report their catch by app or card or phone system. Maybe you even have a deadline queue system like some sports events set up. If the harvest is way behind schedule, or if you're done for the season you can turn in your tags or maybe open it up to everyone in December until the quota is met. There are all sorts of opportunities and directions you can go

Is it complicated? Not much more than the other crazy seasons we have. Is it frustrating? Not nearly as frustrating or stressful as the current system. Right now if your boat is down for maintenance or you're deployed or busy at work for the season, or if the weather gods hate you you're missing the whole season. This gives you a chance to fish as you want and maximize flexibility. It's not going to make everyone happy, hell nothing will, but this most likely makes life easier for the average angler. I'll take anything better than the "Sorry there were 5' seas each weekend of the season? Tough shit the season is closed. Better luck next year!" setup we have now.
There would not be enough tags to go around. Not even enough for each person to get 1 fish.

Personal rec IFQ, catch shares, are all traps.

Give permanent control to the states, that is the only solution.

I will let everyone in on something you won't learn if you don't go to the meetings and talk to the feds: they won't pass any rule that isn't easy for them to enforce. So you can forget all the complicated schemes they will NEVER pass it bc it's too difficult for them to enforce.
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post


Fish tags = Catch Shares. The VERY thing that is threatening our fisheries future - we should certainly NOT be promoting them.

No need to weigh or count each trout, redfish, or flounder even though there are exponentially more fishermen fishing for them in an exponentially smaller area than the snapper grounds. Itís a trap, and is not for just red snapper - Catch Shares will expand to every single fish managed by the Gulf Council if we let them. Time to delegate management of ALL of our fisheries to the states as the US Constitution intended.

Sector Separation COULD work if under state management - private recs have their own quota and for-hire has their own quota. The problem is that they are setting the stage for transfer % of ownership of ALL federally managed species to a few corporations - this would not happen under state management, thus the insistence of NOAA Fisheries of maintaining control of the for-hire fleet. Itís a scam masquerading as fisheries ďscienceĒ.

Most IFQ Shareholders live in the eastern Gulf but their boats are fishing in the western Gulf. Is it in the best interests of Texas and Louisiana to have roughly 70% of ALL the red snapper caught off of their coasts shipped outside of their state for sale? There need to be an excise tax on all fish exported out of state for sale.

Itís time to get back to REAL fisheries management.




Preach on brother!
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:18 AM
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You guys are tough...
those commercial fishermen are hero’s, hero’s I tell you. Braving the elements, Mother Nature, to bring in the catch for the village. The less fortunate, old, unskilled now have an opportunity to enjoy fresh seafood because of these Hero’s. These Hero’s are small businessmen stimulating the economy and creating jobs and opportunity for restaurants nation wide through their hard work and dedication. You should stop and thank a commercial fisherman when you see one. Thank them for their service and dedication granting America the joy of seafood through their labors.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by alligatorgar View Post
You guys are tough...
those commercial fishermen are heroís, heroís I tell you. Braving the elements, Mother Nature, to bring in the catch for the village. The less fortunate, old, unskilled now have an opportunity to enjoy fresh seafood because of these Heroís. These Heroís are small businessmen stimulating the economy and creating jobs and opportunity for restaurants nation wide through their hard work and dedication. You should stop and thank a commercial fisherman when you see one. Thank them for their service and dedication granting America the joy of seafood through their labors.
????
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dryhydro View Post
????
Pretty sure that was sarcasm.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dryhydro View Post
????
look up lol

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Old 04-15-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post


Fish tags = Catch Shares. The VERY thing that is threatening our fisheries future - we should certainly NOT be promoting them.

No need to weigh or count each trout, redfish, or flounder even though there are exponentially more fishermen fishing for them in an exponentially smaller area than the snapper grounds. Itís a trap, and is not for just red snapper - Catch Shares will expand to every single fish managed by the Gulf Council if we let them. Time to delegate management of ALL of our fisheries to the states as the US Constitution intended.

Sector Separation COULD work if under state management - private recs have their own quota and for-hire has their own quota. The problem is that they are setting the stage for transfer % of ownership of ALL federally managed species to a few corporations - this would not happen under state management, thus the insistence of NOAA Fisheries of maintaining control of the for-hire fleet. Itís a scam masquerading as fisheries ďscienceĒ.

Most IFQ Shareholders live in the eastern Gulf but their boats are fishing in the western Gulf. Is it in the best interests of Texas and Louisiana to have roughly 70% of ALL the red snapper caught off of their coasts shipped outside of their state for sale? There need to be an excise tax on all fish exported out of state for sale.

Itís time to get back to REAL fisheries management.




Absolutely correct.

And hopefully REC fishermen will figure out that this fight is about more then snapper. State control for REC anglers for all species of fish.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by pooldoo73 View Post
As REc fishermen, we should all try to sharpen our skills a little and target/catch other fish. The crying that has been done over red snapper is crazy. I am glad that there has been some movement to get more fishing days, but I quit specifically targeting rd snapper years ago. Too many other fish in the gulf.

I thought the same however (after reading some Florida post on fighting over bottom fishing spots) the Florida fishing waters are Barren of structure do to lack of offshore/nearshore oil platforms and heavy marsh areas. Less structure less fish, less species to target. The lack of oil platforms is a man made problem that could be solved. The marshes, not so much. Those jokers in Florida are chocking on their own success of sorts and suffering the consequences. 10,000 boats headed out for the same 16 legal size snapper.

Drill baby drill

to many other fish in the gulf applies to Texas louisiana and parts of Mississippi. Florida is a whole different animal.
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