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MIddleground fishing buddies for ARS

Old 05-03-2021, 05:13 PM
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Default MIddleground fishing buddies for ARS

Greetings,

I am looking for some fishing buds to go out on my private recreational boat during the 2021 ARS season. I would leave from Hudson, Florida and go out 90+- miles on my 34' go-fast type center console. Twin 300HP Evinrude G2 outboards, plenty of fuel, safety gear, electronics, ....

The boat is totally open (no head or cabin). I usually bring a propane BBQ with me so we can have some hot food while out there. These would be overnight trips.

We leave with the tide on day 1 (usually around mid to late morning), troll and fish on the way out, get out to the grounds before dark, scout around, anchor and fish. I do not go if the seas will be more then 3'. My boat slices the waves fairly well, but anyone who tells you they run at 40 knots in 3-5 footers (or more) is lieing.

On day 2, we usually move to another spot or 2 or 3 to fish. Late morning to noon we depart for home, stopping in a few places and trolling a bit.

I take no more then 7 including me, no less then 4 including me.

You bring your own gear, food and drink. No glass bottles or illegal drugs. Everyone brings 10 pounds of frozen sardines or threadfins or greenbacks and 3 to 5 pounds of frozen squid and 20 pounds of crushed ice.

Folks usually bring a bean bag chair, sometimes a fold up chair that you would use while hunting, rain gear and something warm to sleep in. The boat is fully open so lots of deck space, but do not go crazy with the gear as it just gets int he way when the action heats up.

For fishing gear, we will be bottom fishing in 100-150 feet. So, decent boat poles are required, along with 4 to 16 ounces of lead. For trolling, braided line with surface lures or deep divers. Balloons to use at night for free lining bait for kings. I have several underwater lights I bring along and it is not uncommon to have the squid swarming around the boat and the ARS and red snapper will often come up nearly to the surface.

Since this is a recreational trip, we are only allowed to keep 1 day limit.

Once a fish is put in the cooler it does not come back out to be replaced by a larger fish.

We go team which means all the fish are more or less portioned out to all participants so everyone goes home with fish.

We split the costs. Figure $125-$150 per person, cash only at the end of the trip. That covers the fuel, oil and boat.

If you are prone to sea sickness, like to complain or are just a nasty person, then go with someone else.

I have 3 trips booked for the first 10 days of the season and one or two trips scheduled later. I am retired, so I can go whenever there is sufficient crew.

No woman (because of zero privacy) and no children under 16.

PM with your name and contact email and I will get back to you.
Old 05-03-2021, 05:28 PM
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You may want to take out the part about people that like to complain or just nasty people. On the forum that's going to wipe out about 95% of your available crew.
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Old 05-03-2021, 05:48 PM
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Ever so close to being a solicitation from an entity offering a service to potential clients for compensation. Hate to be a debbie downer but id be careful.

Ever see the Seinfeld episode where Jerry hires a woman to clean his apartment, ends up having regular sex after she cleans, then she stops cleaning (but still shows up, hubba hubba, and gets paid)?

A slippery slope indeed.

And yes, due to your requirement of not being a prick, im out.
Old 05-03-2021, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by diverclint View Post
Greetings,

I am looking for some fishing buds to go out on my private recreational boat during the 2021 ARS season. I would leave from Hudson, Florida and go out 90+- miles on my 34' go-fast type center console. Twin 300HP Evinrude G2 outboards, plenty of fuel, safety gear, electronics, ....

The boat is totally open (no head or cabin). I usually bring a propane BBQ with me so we can have some hot food while out there. These would be overnight trips.

We leave with the tide on day 1 (usually around mid to late morning), troll and fish on the way out, get out to the grounds before dark, scout around, anchor and fish. I do not go if the seas will be more then 3'. My boat slices the waves fairly well, but anyone who tells you they run at 40 knots in 3-5 footers (or more) is lieing.

On day 2, we usually move to another spot or 2 or 3 to fish. Late morning to noon we depart for home, stopping in a few places and trolling a bit.

I take no more then 7 including me, no less then 4 including me.

You bring your own gear, food and drink. No glass bottles or illegal drugs. Everyone brings 10 pounds of frozen sardines or threadfins or greenbacks and 3 to 5 pounds of frozen squid and 20 pounds of crushed ice.

Folks usually bring a bean bag chair, sometimes a fold up chair that you would use while hunting, rain gear and something warm to sleep in. The boat is fully open so lots of deck space, but do not go crazy with the gear as it just gets int he way when the action heats up.

For fishing gear, we will be bottom fishing in 100-150 feet. So, decent boat poles are required, along with 4 to 16 ounces of lead. For trolling, braided line with surface lures or deep divers. Balloons to use at night for free lining bait for kings. I have several underwater lights I bring along and it is not uncommon to have the squid swarming around the boat and the ARS and red snapper will often come up nearly to the surface.

Since this is a recreational trip, we are only allowed to keep 1 day limit.

Once a fish is put in the cooler it does not come back out to be replaced by a larger fish.

We go team which means all the fish are more or less portioned out to all participants so everyone goes home with fish.

We split the costs. Figure $125-$150 per person, cash only at the end of the trip. That covers the fuel, oil and boat.

If you are prone to sea sickness, like to complain or are just a nasty person, then go with someone else.

I have 3 trips booked for the first 10 days of the season and one or two trips scheduled later. I am retired, so I can go whenever there is sufficient crew.

No woman (because of zero privacy) and no children under 16.

PM with your name and contact email and I will get back to you.


You just named a price and solicited yourself for hire. Your gonna get a offer for your services.
About half way into your trip your gonna get to see a badge and find out you broke just about every federal fishery rule there is.
Oh yea, the cash only part incriminates you even more.

See below and call the 800 number. They are waiting for your call.
https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/featu...nd-sustainable

Last edited by 20biminitwist; 05-03-2021 at 06:59 PM.
Old 05-03-2021, 07:08 PM
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Yup... sadly it’s illegal to “chip in” for fuel. If your taking folks in federal waters fishing and accepting any compensation, it’s considered a charter. This requires a captains license, a federal charter permit and on an overload boat, over six passengers a second captain, a variety of safety equipment and communications devices.
Old 05-03-2021, 07:53 PM
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If I could escape Canada I would chip in twice as much for this experience.

Good luck sir
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Old 05-04-2021, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by meritmat View Post
If I could escape Canada I would chip in twice as much for this experience.

Good luck sir

No problem Matt...look me up when you get down here and the trip is on me!

I fish out of the same town as this guy.

Sorry, I dont carry a grill with me. We call that filet and release and that's just not my style. We will however have a great meal once we get back in.....
Old 05-04-2021, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tomanyboats View Post
Yup... sadly its illegal to chip in for fuel. If your taking folks in federal waters fishing and accepting any compensation, its considered a charter. This requires a captains license, a federal charter permit and on an overload boat, over six passengers a second captain, a variety of safety equipment and communications devices.
That's a grey area Capt and I dont think you are right with that comment. It has more to do with the fact that he "solicited" money and passengers for a trip. The difference is whether you have guests aboard who voluntarily offer you something for sharing your boat for a day vs people you dont know who you asked to pay for your trip for a day. One group are guests, the others are passengers.

Once he has left state waters and is fishing past the nine mile range he falls under Federal laws and those laws are clear. They were passed back in 1993 under the Passenger Vessel Safety Act. It was amended in 1999 to include the sharing of expenses. I had this copied and pasted once and found it:

"The Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993 added the requirement for having an "uninspected passenger vessel" license (six pac) whenever some form of tangible consideration is being exchanged as a condition of carriage on the vessel. Consideration may be cash, checks, money orders, or in the form of goods.

The issue of sharing of expenses for fuel, providing food and/or provisions for a trip was a concern to recreational boaters as to whether or not it fell within the term of "consideration" sufficient to require a six -passenger license and whether it affected the boat insurance policy.

Congress amended the definition of "consideration" effective 1 October 1999 to allow voluntary sharing. "Consideration" is now defined as an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.

A "sharing of expense" can create the necessity of a six pac license for the operator. The key is whether the sharing is required by the owner/operator (license required) or is voluntary (no license required). A guest may offer or request to contribute to the cruise, either in sharing of actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution, or by donation of fuel, food, beverage or other supplies. However, if that occurs, the skipper should make it clear, and while the gesture is very much appreciated, there is no requirement or obligation to do so, but that voluntary contributions are always welcomed. If contribution were to be required, the skipper would clearly fall outside the exception: and a "six pac" license for hire would be required. A skipper should likewise refrain from initiating any suggestion about a "contribution" in order to avoid the appearance that such is required or expected."

What the guy has done and what Capt Troy pointed out is he solicited business and stated a fee, both of which is illegal.
Old 05-04-2021, 04:29 AM
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A recent meeting here locally explained exactly what is legal and what is not. These are some of the offshore detail officers.
They will tell you straight up there is nothing gray about this invite to fish. These are the guys the OP is gonna be talking to.
These are also some of the guys he may get to take fishing.

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Old 05-04-2021, 05:15 AM
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I can confirm - since they OP clearly asked to split cost which he is contributing to as well , is NOT illegal to do so. Get over yourselves hull truth police.
Old 05-04-2021, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Hail Yeah View Post
I can confirm - since they OP clearly asked to split cost which he is contributing to as well , is NOT illegal to do so. Get over yourselves hull truth police.
Your Wrong!
6 times 150 is 900 bucks he is asking for.
He has solicited to unknown people. Kinda like an add for a charter.

This is a clear cut case of non voluntary sharing of expenses.

Straight from NOAA director of LEO.
“Tips routinely come into our enforcement hotline reporting illegal charter fishing operations,” said Manny Antonaras, Assistant Director of OLE, Southeast Division. “Illegal charter operations are very concerning to us because they affect legally permitted fishing operations and fair market prices. They can also put customers’ safety at risk, or encourage them to lie about their relationship with the captain.”

Last edited by 20biminitwist; 05-04-2021 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 05-04-2021, 05:47 AM
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I make my buddies supply the beer when I take them fishing. Reckon I better be on the lookout.
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Old 05-04-2021, 06:36 AM
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All my friends that I take fishing know a boat costs money and contributes accordingly when we are back at the dock without being asked.
Old 05-04-2021, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ByrdmanFL View Post
All my friends that I take fishing know a boat costs money and contributes accordingly when we are back at the dock without being asked.
Perfectly legal to do so and you used some key words. Friends and they Contribute.

Do you tell your friends to bring 150 bucks in cash
20 lbs of bait
20 pounds of ice
Type of rods and weights

And do you tell them we are booked for the trip next month.

This subject has been beat to death on here. There are always 2 sides to the argument. One side knows for a fact what the law says.

The other side is always trying to justify to themselves what they are doing is legal when it isn't.

Those are the ones that will get stung by the sting that they have run for this activity. Yes, they have and will set your ass for a trip if your soliciting for any consideration as compensation for passage on the vessel.

The fines are huge and the charges are stacked at a federal level if your in federal waters. The amount of violations in one of these stings are too many to list.
Here are a few.

Out of season fish as rec and for hire are different for some specie
Failure to electronic report
No Turtle hook removal gear
No Captains license
Vessel fishing license
No federal permits for hire
Improper PFD requirements and the list goes on and on as do the fines.

Yea, the above is some of what your required to have when they determine your for hire.

And, when your new found buddies get scared during the interview they are gonna squeal like stuck hogs or one of them may be a NOAA undercover officer.

Old 05-04-2021, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by diverclint View Post
Greetings,

I am looking for some fishing buds to go out on my private recreational boat during the 2021 ARS season. I would leave from Hudson, Florida and go out 90+- miles on my 34' go-fast type center console. Twin 300HP Evinrude G2 outboards, plenty of fuel, safety gear, electronics, ....

The boat is totally open (no head or cabin). I usually bring a propane BBQ with me so we can have some hot food while out there. These would be overnight trips.

We leave with the tide on day 1 (usually around mid to late morning), troll and fish on the way out, get out to the grounds before dark, scout around, anchor and fish. I do not go if the seas will be more then 3'. My boat slices the waves fairly well, but anyone who tells you they run at 40 knots in 3-5 footers (or more) is lieing.

On day 2, we usually move to another spot or 2 or 3 to fish. Late morning to noon we depart for home, stopping in a few places and trolling a bit.

I take no more then 7 including me, no less then 4 including me.

You bring your own gear, food and drink. No glass bottles or illegal drugs. Everyone brings 10 pounds of frozen sardines or threadfins or greenbacks and 3 to 5 pounds of frozen squid and 20 pounds of crushed ice.

Folks usually bring a bean bag chair, sometimes a fold up chair that you would use while hunting, rain gear and something warm to sleep in. The boat is fully open so lots of deck space, but do not go crazy with the gear as it just gets int he way when the action heats up.

For fishing gear, we will be bottom fishing in 100-150 feet. So, decent boat poles are required, along with 4 to 16 ounces of lead. For trolling, braided line with surface lures or deep divers. Balloons to use at night for free lining bait for kings. I have several underwater lights I bring along and it is not uncommon to have the squid swarming around the boat and the ARS and red snapper will often come up nearly to the surface.

Since this is a recreational trip, we are only allowed to keep 1 day limit.

Once a fish is put in the cooler it does not come back out to be replaced by a larger fish.

We go team which means all the fish are more or less portioned out to all participants so everyone goes home with fish.

We split the costs. Figure $125-$150 per person, cash only at the end of the trip. That covers the fuel, oil and boat.

If you are prone to sea sickness, like to complain or are just a nasty person, then go with someone else.

I have 3 trips booked for the first 10 days of the season and one or two trips scheduled later. I am retired, so I can go whenever there is sufficient crew.

No woman (because of zero privacy) and no children under 16.

PM with your name and contact email and I will get back to you.
BBQ includes things like: 1. Pulled pork 2. Ribs 3. Brunswick Stew 4. Beef Brisket

A Grill is what you cook meat on. You have a propane GRILL.

Please stop embarrassing yourself and use these terms correctly.

Old 05-04-2021, 08:26 AM
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I'm certainty no expert on this subject, but if you must bring ice,squid, etc. And pay $125-$150.00 at the end of the trip, this sounds like an unlicensed charter, plain & simple.

I have done this trip numerous times, on a very similar boat, but with twin Verado 300's, and I was thrilled when a couple guys threw me a hundred bucks each at the end. I didn't break even, but I never planned to.

I'm out there for recreation and not to make money or even break even. The OP sounds like he's getting a nice fishing trip at everyone else's expense, and maybe even making a few bucks.
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Old 05-04-2021, 08:57 AM
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OP seems like a nice guy looking to fish with some new people.

I do the same thing with the neighbors.

We talk about what to bring and how much gas we usually burn to make sure everyone has a good idea of how we share the costs and what they are.

Instead of me buying and lugging 200lbs of ice, everyone brings their own.

Mikey the Hat brings the food because he owns a restaurant. Fire Pole Pete's brother owns a bait shop so he gets that for cost.

Everyone chips in for fuel since that is the most expensive. We don't know the final fuel bill until we get back.

I do not make any money on the trip, just sharing the cost and want everyone to bring their fair share.

Don't get your panties in a wad over someone looking for fishing friends without subsidizing all the cost.
Old 05-04-2021, 10:42 AM
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I can understand why licensed captains, who pay BIG money for their gear, licenses, taxes, etc. get upset when they think people are getting away with doing the same thing they do but without all the hassle and expense.

Unfortunately lawyers and bureaucrats make things difficult for the average guy to figure out, and everything is open to interpretation.

But yeah, I wouldn't ADVERTISE like this guy did. Maybe something along the lines of "Bring your own stuff, and learn about how much it usually costs to go from point A to point B and back on a boat this size, and consider a donation to help pay for fuel".
Old 05-04-2021, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by KenoJoe View Post
I'm certainty no expert on this subject, but if you must bring ice,squid, etc. And pay $125-$150.00 at the end of the trip, this sounds like an unlicensed charter, plain & simple.

I have done this trip numerous times, on a very similar boat, but with twin Verado 300's, and I was thrilled when a couple guys threw me a hundred bucks each at the end. I didn't break even, but I never planned to.

I'm out there for recreation and not to make money or even break even. The OP sounds like he's getting a nice fishing trip at everyone else's expense, and maybe even making a few bucks.
Dude! I would have given you at least $200 for that! But only if I could have brought my spear-fishing gear!
Old 05-04-2021, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by grey2112 View Post
I can understand why licensed captains, who pay BIG money for their gear, licenses, taxes, etc. get upset when they think people are getting away with doing the same thing they do but without all the hassle and expense.

Unfortunately lawyers and bureaucrats make things difficult for the average guy to figure out, and everything is open to interpretation.

But yeah, I wouldn't ADVERTISE like this guy did. Maybe something along the lines of "Bring your own stuff, and learn about how much it usually costs to go from point A to point B and back on a boat this size, and consider a donation to help pay for fuel".
How about when neighbors or friends invite themselves (unsolicited) to come fishing with you the next time you go offshore? Is it acceptable to say, "sure, if you bring $100 for gas, along with food, ice, and beer". I wish my boat ran on "please" and "thank you"s, and had an ever-flowing fountain of fluoro carbon, weights, and hooks, but it doesn't.

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