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Jupiter area numbers

Old 11-27-2019, 05:36 AM
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CMOR mapping will be releasing a massive update for the South Florida Region at the Miami Boat Show in Feb 2020. We have been collecting a massive amount of multibeam data with our own survey vessels this year. CMOR mapping does not tow old side scans, we have multibeam survey vessels with $250,000 sonar equipment. More details to follow. We are charting areas that have never been mapped by any government or private company.




Last edited by CMORmapping; 11-27-2019 at 06:39 AM.
Old 11-27-2019, 05:41 AM
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Old 11-27-2019, 05:50 AM
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How far to the north will this new data cover
Old 11-27-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by johndoe031181 View Post
How many do you want? DM me your email and I'll send you the KML file. These are all scraped from publicly available data.

Sorry sent this as a PM and probably better public in case anyone else is wondering. I recognize the PB-# points as those from Florida Go Fishing, which I've purchased. What are the deeper FS-# points and where can they be purchased? Thanks.
Old 11-27-2019, 11:14 AM
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All of this information comes from publicly available datasets. ERM, FWC, the stuff the FLGF posted on their site, and some of the deeper numbers were publicly posted on fishingstatus[.]com. Note that there is significan overlap of the ERM and FWC datasets and FLGF. Seems like they're just 1 for 1 copies that FLGF are packaging and re-selling. I haven't validated many of these numbers, but I've pulled fish off a few of them.

For example:
https://myfwc.com/media/19396/reeflocations.xlsx
https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/v...e0edb8e7e3fa3a
Environmental Resources Management Artificial Reef Map

etc. etc. etc.

The folks selling this stuff commercially are just re-selling what is already out there, with the exception of CMOR, who appear to be doing their own surveys. Since I have already paid Florida and Palm Beach County with my tax dollars, I don't mind using the stuff that the state and county makes available online for my personal purposes.....


Last edited by johndoe031181; 11-27-2019 at 11:20 AM.
Old 11-28-2019, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by johndoe031181 View Post
All of this information comes from publicly available datasets. ERM, FWC, the stuff the FLGF posted on their site, and some of the deeper numbers were publicly posted on fishingstatus[.]com. Note that there is significan overlap of the ERM and FWC datasets and FLGF. Seems like they're just 1 for 1 copies that FLGF are packaging and re-selling. I haven't validated many of these numbers, but I've pulled fish off a few of them.

For example:
https://myfwc.com/media/19396/reeflocations.xlsx
https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/v...e0edb8e7e3fa3a
Environmental Resources Management Artificial Reef Map

etc. etc. etc.

The folks selling this stuff commercially are just re-selling what is already out there, with the exception of CMOR, who appear to be doing their own surveys. Since I have already paid Florida and Palm Beach County with my tax dollars, I don't mind using the stuff that the state and county makes available online for my personal purposes.....
Well said. You can pay for these wrecks from FLGF, grab them from the public government sources, or download for free from FLGPX as .gpx files.

I too am curious how far Northeast you plan on going, CMOR.

I can validate CMOR and Strikelines claim of using unique data, but for different coasts. I've converted most of NOAA's publicly available multi-beam FL data and CMOR's current chips have either: NOAA data that was once previously publicly available but no longer is, or using a combination of currently available public data and their own unique data (with plans to release significantly more unique data as claimed). Strikelines East coast chips use only public NOAA data. Their West coast chips have lots of unique data (with plans to release more).

Every other commercial multi-beam data chip provider for the FL area has only publicly available NOAA data and doesn't offer as much coverage or resolution as CMOR and Strikelines. I don't know of any other commercial companies currently towing and/or investing in gathering their own multi-beam data, but there are universities engaged in projects right now. Garmin, CMAP, Navionics, and others that want to get into detailed bottom contour mapping for Florida are years behind CMOR and Strikelines ... and myself haha.
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Old 11-28-2019, 08:37 AM
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FYI - I purchased from FL Go Fishing a few months ago. It's pricier than others I've seen, but the dataset is clean and has been helpful to me. I just purchased Fishing Status and it's terrible. The data points are in triplicate and you quickly exceed Garmin's 5000 waypoint limit unless you drill down on a small area. Looks like they just imported a bunch of data without formatting or reviewing it. Seeing the lower price on FS compared to FLGo, I thought I might have gotten ripped off, but clearly in this case you get what you pay for.

Yes I know some of this data is free, but I'd rather pay a few bucks to have it cleaned up and imported in a few minutes than hunting all over the internet and putting it together piecemeal.
Old 12-01-2019, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by johndoe031181 View Post
How many do you want? DM me your email and I'll send you the KML file. These are all scraped from publicly available data.

Looks like a lot of those deeper numbers came from Fishing Status. Some of those are only found on our site (Capt. Sal's Spots for example), until now... that you are "scraping" them and giving them away on here.




Originally Posted by zenm View Post
FYI - I purchased from FL Go Fishing a few months ago. It's pricier than others I've seen, but the dataset is clean and has been helpful to me. I just purchased Fishing Status and it's terrible. The data points are in triplicate and you quickly exceed Garmin's 5000 waypoint limit unless you drill down on a small area. Looks like they just imported a bunch of data without formatting or reviewing it. Seeing the lower price on FS compared to FLGo, I thought I might have gotten ripped off, but clearly in this case you get what you pay for.

Yes I know some of this data is free, but I'd rather pay a few bucks to have it cleaned up and imported in a few minutes than hunting all over the internet and putting it together piecemeal.
As I explained in my email to you, the "triplicate" spots are not the same, and certainly they are not all in triplicate They all have slightly different lat/lon coordinates, and from different sources, that are at least different by 1 decimal point. 1 decimal point difference may be within 3 feet of each other. They are indeed different, but may be very close together. Also, many times there are multiple spots marked for a wreck or reef. For wrecks sometimes it shows the bow and the stern as 2 different spots. Also each piece of the wreck or reef is marked in many cases. Reefs may have many pieces and spread out and in some there are notes to describe each piece of the reef for example (boxcars, concrete rubble, etc.) I am the one that does the formatting and reviewing, so I'd appreciate it if you kept your speculation to yourself that they are not reviewed or formatted.

When I first started Fishing Status, everyone complained I didn't have enough fishing spots. Now they complain that I have too many. You can't please everyone! So, I give 2 options. DIY, or we make a custom SD card to your specifications and to the requirements of your GPS unit. You could have paid a few extra bucks "to have it cleaned up and imported in a few minutes", but instead you chose the cheapest option ($9), didn't watch the videos on how to filter them yourself, and came on here to bad mouth the product instead of replying to my email. Classy.

Last edited by xfernal; 12-01-2019 at 06:26 AM.
Old 12-01-2019, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by xfernal View Post

As I explained in my email to you, the "triplicate" spots are not the same, and certainly they are not all in triplicate They all have slightly different lat/lon coordinates, and from different sources, that are at least different by 1 decimal point. 1 decimal point difference may be within 3 feet of each other. They are indeed different, but may be very close together. Also, many times there are multiple spots marked for a wreck or reef. For wrecks sometimes it shows the bow and the stern as 2 different spots. Also each piece of the wreck or reef is marked in many cases. Reefs may have many pieces and spread out and in some there are notes to describe each piece of the reef for example (boxcars, concrete rubble, etc.) I am the one that does the formatting and reviewing, so I'd appreciate it if you kept your speculation to yourself that they are not reviewed or formatted.

When I first started Fishing Status, everyone complained I didn't have enough fishing spots. Now they complain that I have too many.
Should I post some screenshots?

- "KD Select", "KD SELECT", "KD SELEC 1"
- "1600", "ERNST REEF", "ERNST RE5" - all 3 have the same longitude and lats separated by .001
- "J.H. LANE", "J.H. Lane"
- "Elizabeth", "ELIZABETH"

All of those points are on top of each other, so I have to max zoom in on a cluster to select any individual waypoint. There are no notes imported, though this may be a limit/bug of Garmin since some of the raw data has a 'desc' field.

Does "J.H. Lane" vs "J.H Lane" or "Elizabeth" vs "ELIZABETH" help a fisherman in any capacity?

I understand the challenges you face trying to import essentially the same GPS data from multiple sources and it's apparent they weren't solved. It's all available publicly, we're paying you to find it, clean it up and format it so we can use it on chart plotters. If customers are complaining there is too much data, maybe you should listen?

Contrast my experience with your more expensive competitor: no redundant waypoints, standardized naming schemes and useful notes. I'm happy to pay multiple companies for additional data, but it has to be cleaned up and useful.
Old 12-01-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by zenm View Post
Should I post some screenshots?

- "KD Select", "KD SELECT", "KD SELEC 1"
- "1600", "ERNST REEF", "ERNST RE5" - all 3 have the same longitude and lats separated by .001
- "J.H. LANE", "J.H. Lane"
- "Elizabeth", "ELIZABETH"

All of those points are on top of each other, so I have to max zoom in on a cluster to select any individual waypoint. There are no notes imported, though this may be a limit/bug of Garmin since some of the raw data has a 'desc' field.

Does "J.H. Lane" vs "J.H Lane" or "Elizabeth" vs "ELIZABETH" help a fisherman in any capacity?
You said "all 3 have the same longitude and lats separated by .001". 3 decimal places is within 111 meters, so yes, they are quite different, regardless of similar names. As I said, some could mark the bow, stern, or individual pieces of the wreck. Garmin also limits the number of characters it uses for names. Some are probably truncated and not the full name of the spot.

Originally Posted by zenm View Post
I understand the challenges you face trying to import essentially the same GPS data from multiple sources and it's apparent they weren't solved. It's all available publicly, we're paying you to find it, clean it up and format it so we can use it on chart plotters. If customers are complaining there is too much data, maybe you should listen?
Exactly how does one differentiate 3 spots all within 300 feet of each other as the example you provided, without actually visiting each spot. There are almost 400,000 spots in the database now. It is going to take a while to verify each of them for you. Also, while there are a lot of public spots, there are over a hundred thousand spots in the database that you will not find on any other map but ours, except maybe from the guy who scraped my site and is offering them here for free. I have also learned that many people love to complain. You bought $9 of spots and downloaded too many for your GPS unit, and apparently still did not use any of the filters as suggested. Instead of the DIY option for $9, which I would have gladly refunded if you weren't truly happy with the spots, you could have paid $99 and had it cleaned up and too your specifications. You went the cheap way out and are complaining about getting around 9,000 spots in 100 miles of PB for $9. In almost 9 years of doing this, you'd be the first person I have issued a refund to because they were unhappy with the spots they received. You wanna be the first?

Originally Posted by zenm View Post
Contrast my experience with your more expensive competitor: no redundant waypoints, standardized naming schemes and useful notes. I'm happy to pay multiple companies for additional data, but it has to be cleaned up and useful.
As someone else mentioned, most of the competitors are using the known public reefs, hence the reason they have so few spots. As I said,, you bought the DIY version. You could have bought a custom SD card, but didn't. Good luck.


Old 12-01-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by xfernal View Post
You said "all 3 have the same longitude and lats separated by .001". 3 decimal places is within 111 meters, so yes, they are quite different, regardless of similar names. As I said, some could mark the bow, stern, or individual pieces of the wreck. Garmin also limits the number of characters it uses for names. Some are probably truncated and not the full name of the spot.



Exactly how does one differentiate 3 spots all within 300 feet of each other as the example you provided, without actually visiting each spot. There are almost 400,000 spots in the database now. It is going to take a while to verify each of them for you. Also, while there are a lot of public spots, there are over a hundred thousand spots in the database that you will not find on any other map but ours, except maybe from the guy who scraped my site and is offering them here for free. I have also learned that many people love to complain. You bought $9 of spots and downloaded too many for your GPS unit, and apparently still did not use any of the filters as suggested. Instead of the DIY option for $9, which I would have gladly refunded if you weren't truly happy with the spots, you could have paid $99 and had it cleaned up and too your specifications. You went the cheap way out and are complaining about getting around 9,000 spots in 100 miles of PB for $9. In almost 9 years of doing this, you'd be the first person I have issued a refund to because they were unhappy with the spots they received. You wanna be the first?
My coordinates were in ddd mm.mmm' format, using dd.ddddd formatting they were separated by .00001 or about 1.5 meters not 110m.

I'm happy to post multiple screenshots with the distance between your waypoints demonstrating they are the essentially same spot but I suspect you would say I am revealing your data. Do I have your permission to do so?

The bottom line - I found your website via this thread and happily went to purchase your product. I selected Palm Beach County since that's where I fish, and got well over 5000 spots which is a problem for anyone using Garmin. When I investigated further I found the majority of those spots are essentially duplicates, vastly inflating the number of waypoints and rendering the dataset mostly useless unless I want to go through and eliminate the dupes manually or run without my other spots. I'm unsure how anyone else wouldn't encounter the same issues.

You clearly are proud of quantity, maybe focus more on the quality of it. You may call this "complaining" and be defensive about your product on a public forum, however as a guy that owns software businesses I call it feedback and would value it immensely.
Old 12-01-2019, 12:17 PM
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I paid xfernal for a years subscription , worth every nickel. I had my 7 yr old nephew clean up duplicates using free software in about 5 minutes. In that time he also marked the ones that were near my previous numbers. No one offering chips online has done more to help more fishermen find fish. Period.

Kudos to Strikelines and CMOR for pulling their own data and making a buck with quality products Garmin and other manufacturers have not matched. But in a few years NOAA will have most of it free as they plan on mapping the entire EEZ within a few years and are well on the way starting with major ports.

If you have a spare grand and a spare 7 yr old nephew you can get any low budget sidescan and some mid range software to stitch all your personally recorded track into a georeferenced mosaic. You may need to get a middle schooler to help as it can be a little more challenging.
Old 12-01-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zenm View Post
My coordinates were in ddd mm.mmm' format, using dd.ddddd formatting they were separated by .00001 or about 1.5 meters not 110m.

I'm happy to post multiple screenshots with the distance between your waypoints demonstrating they are the essentially same spot but I suspect you would say I am revealing your data. Do I have your permission to do so?

The bottom line - I found your website via this thread and happily went to purchase your product. I selected Palm Beach County since that's where I fish, and got well over 5000 spots which is a problem for anyone using Garmin. When I investigated further I found the majority of those spots are essentially duplicates, vastly inflating the number of waypoints and rendering the dataset mostly useless unless I want to go through and eliminate the dupes manually or run without my other spots. I'm unsure how anyone else wouldn't encounter the same issues.

You clearly are proud of quantity, maybe focus more on the quality of it. You may call this "complaining" and be defensive about your product on a public forum, however as a guy that owns software businesses I call it feedback and would value it immensely.
110 meters or 1.5 meters (9 feet), all are still different spots. 9 feet can still make a big difference when bottom fishing. How am I suppose to determine which one is the most accurate without visiting each one?

Anyone can zoom in and see all the spots from here : https://fishingstatus.com/places/map...ing-spots-maps

You can post screenshots, I don't care. Nor does it matter. You say the majority are essentially the same and that is complete rubbish. Anyone can take a look at the link above and see that is not true. I am sure there are many of the public wrecks and reefs numbers that are very close to the same coordinates, but certainly not the majority, nor are they truly duplicates. You have the ability within Garmin Homeport, which is suggested on our Garmin Instructions page, to modify/remove list/coordinates as you wish.There are even videos on how to make custom maps/downloads yourself. https://fishingstatus.com/places/map...ing-spots-maps

I can't help it you guys are spoiled with thousands of fishing spots in S Florida. If you didn't want to take the time to make your own custom card, you should've purchased a custom card from us. I still can't believe you are complaining about too many fishing spots. As far as criticism, your first words were "terrible" and you made false claims about triplicates, reviewing, and formatting. Even in your last reply you claim that the majority of the spots are duplicate. Complete BS. Yeah, I'm going to respond to that and any other slanderous or false statements.
Old 12-01-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by froggyfisherman View Post
I paid xfernal for a years subscription , worth every nickel. I had my 7 yr old nephew clean up duplicates using free software in about 5 minutes. In that time he also marked the ones that were near my previous numbers. No one offering chips online has done more to help more fishermen find fish. Period.
Thank you for the kind words. I hope you have and will kill many fish on those spots.
Old 12-01-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by froggyfisherman View Post
I paid xfernal for a years subscription , worth every nickel. I had my 7 yr old nephew clean up duplicates using free software in about 5 minutes. In that time he also marked the ones that were near my previous numbers.
Your 7 yo nephew googled for open source software to remove duplicate GPS coordinates based upon name and proximity, found GPSBabel which is the most popular, installed it and read the documentation to end up with a series of command line inputs similar to this before sending the output back to you in 5 minutes?

Code:
gpsbabel -i gpx -f Palm-Beach-FL-US.gpx -x duplicate,location,shortname -o gpx -F no_dupes.gpx
gpsbabel -i gpx -f no_dupes.gpx -x position,distance=50f -o gpx -F cleaned_again.wpt


I'm all for defending a buddy online, but let's dial it back a tad.

The point of purchasing waypoints is to eliminate time sinks like that and put usable data on the plotter.
Old 12-01-2019, 04:15 PM
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Never met the dude and could not even tell you what he looks like, just defending a reputable business I have used from an internet knowitall hero splitting hairs apparently to look intelligent on a forum.

My nephew would probably have just dl the file to an open source excel like spreadsheet like open office, not bothered to read the documentation and just used the find/replace function and other tools from the drop down menu as he is far to smart to use software so old and clunky it needs to manipulated with command lines. Then again, he doesn't frequent internet forums trying to look cool by bashing established members who contribute valuable advice, fishing reports and a very inexpensive service to find fishing spots and reports.I could probly talk him into tutoring you for a couple of cherry poptarts and a lemonade caprisun.
Old 12-02-2019, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by froggyfisherman View Post
I Kudos to Strikelines and CMOR for pulling their own data and making a buck with quality products Garmin and other manufacturers have not matched. But in a few years NOAA will have most of it free as they plan on mapping the entire EEZ within a few years and are well on the way starting with major ports.

If you have a spare grand and a spare 7 yr old nephew you can get any low budget sidescan and some mid range software to stitch all your personally recorded track into a georeferenced mosaic. You may need to get a middle schooler to help as it can be a little more challenging.
NOAA is a business and they sell maps, charts, and data. They withhold data from the public domain that was gathered with the public's money and then "allow" a select few business to sell this data. This was/is done with paper charts and now with electronic data used to make charts and chips. They already have most of the EEZ mapped and what you can buy now was mapped and finished over a decade ago by public universities using grants and scholarships (public money). The public will not be getting what you claim for free, in any recent timeframe, or in any amount of completeness as you suggest.

Making your own georeferenced mosaic isn't hard but what are you going to do with the mosaic? You can't just stick it on a GPS like Simrad or Garmin and be on your way. It takes massive amounts of computer processing, GIS software, custom coding, and a lot of time to render the raw data into usable map layers that can be displayed on modern GPS units. If you want to cover decent ground and have multiple levels of resolution (want to be able to zoom in/out?), then you are looking at weeks of idle cpu processing. Further, the main software used to create these maps is no longer available and supported in the US this past year. I wonder who could have influenced that?

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