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Lake O latest toxin test doesn't look good

Old 06-18-2019, 07:39 AM
  #81  
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Rep. Mast retools bill to make Army Corps consider public health before Lake O discharges

Tyler Treadway, Treasure Coast NewspapersPublished 12:23 p.m. ET June 17, 2019 Updated 2:58 p.m. ET June 17, 2019
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Rep. Brian Mast announces new algae legislation along the St. Lucie River
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LINKEDINCOMMENTEMAILMORESTUART — U.S. Rep. Brian Mast is making another run at stopping harmful Lake Okeechobee discharges by requiring the Army Corps of Engineers to consider the health and safety of people downstream before releasing water.

On Monday, the Palm City Republican announced he's filing the Prioritizing Revised Operations to Eliminate Cyanobacteria Toxins in Florida Act, aka the PROTECT Florida Act.

The bill is an updated version of The Stop Harmful Discharges Act Mast filed in September.

More:Mast introduces Stop Harmful Discharges ActBuy PhotoU.S. Rep. Brian Mast (third from right) announces he's filing the Prioritizing Revised Operations to Eliminate Cyanobacteria Toxins in Florida Act, or the PROTECT Florida Act, which is a revision of the bill The Stop Harmful Discharges Act, during a news conference Monday, June 17, 2019, along the St. Lucie River in Stuart. Mast was supported by a variety of residents and dignitaries, (from left) Alex Gillen, executive director of the Friends of the Everglades, Kelli Glass Leighton, city of Stuart commissioner, Mike Meier, city of Stuart commissioner, Blair Wickstrom, publisher of Florida Sportsman magazine, Cristina Maldonado, a veterinarian of Stuart, Jacqui Thurlow-Lippisch, South Florida Water Management District board member, and Ed Zyak, a local fishing guide from Jensen Beach. (Photo: LEAH VOSS/TCPALM)
The first bill foundered, Mast told TCPalm, because some members of Congress didn't like that it would have required the Corps to make public health and safety, including preventing toxic algae blooms, the "the No. 1 priority" in managing Lake Okeechobee levels.

"There's no rating system" when it comes to managing the lake, Mast said. Other needs such as the safety of people around the dike, water supply, the lake's ecosystem and recreation need to be considered.

More: With toxic blue-green algae bloom, don't eat Lake Okeechobee fish, Audubon biologist says

"So we changed the language of the bill to make our concern — preventing toxic algae blooms that harm people, animals, the ecosystem and the economy along the estuaries — into the mix," Mast said.

"It's not the No. 1 priority, but it is a priority. And I think that's fair."

More: Read the PROTECT Florida Act

It also gives the bill a better chance of passing, he said.

More: Lake Okeechobee blue-green algae bloom at Port Mayaca growing; is it getting more toxic?

Giving the new bill teeth, Mast said, is a recent federal Environmental Protection Agency ruling that water with concentrations of microcystin, a common toxin in blue-green algae blooms, above 8 parts per billion is harmful for people to touch.

More: St. Lucie blooms in 2018 exceeded new EPA hazard threshold 12 times

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/lo...Z8UZs76SeM7Wgs
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:38 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Deep Thoughts View Post

Can coastal nutrient pollution worsen an existing Florida red tide that has moved to shore?

Yes, the scientific data available so far suggest that it is possible for nutrients flowing from land to sea — including natural AND human-contributed nutrients carried by storm water runoff and the input of rivers — to serve as additional “food” for growth of Karenia brevis red tide blooms that have moved to shore.
https://mote.org/news/florida-red-ti...%20to%20shore?


Scientists already have ample proof that red tide, which began in October 2017 and stretches more than 135 miles from Collier County to Pinellas County, continues to grow by feasting on fertilizer contaminating the water. “It fertilizes the algae and they go wild,” said Dr. Paul Gray, coordinator for the Audubon Everglades restoration program.

After rains from Hurricane Irma drenched the state last year, the lake filled with more than two million pounds of phosphorus, a chemical in fertilizer. That’s nearly 10 times higher than the recommended limit.
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/l...ed-tide-crisis

Data collected along the southwest coast of Florida between Tampa Bay and Sanibel Island on the abundance of the toxic dinoflagellate Karenia brevis from 1954 to 2002 were examined for spatial and temporal patterns. K. brevis was found to be approximately 20-fold more abundant within 5 km of the shoreline than 20-30 km offshore. Overall, K. brevis was approximately 13-18-fold more abundant in 1994-2002 than in 1954-1963. In 1954-1963, K. brevis occurred primarily in the fall months. In 1994-2002, it was more abundant not only in the fall, but also in the winter and spring months. It is hypothesized that greater nutrient availability in the ecosystem is the most likely cause of this increase in K. brevis biomass, and the large increase in the human population and its activities in South Florida over the past half century is a major factor.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._Florida_Coast

“In August and September of 2004, Florida experienced four hurricanes and some of the highest precipitation levels in 35 years,” said Chuanmin Hu, assistant research professor and executive director of the Institute for Marine Remote Sensing (IMaRS) at the University of South Florida’s College of Marine Science. “This led to high discharge by Florida rivers in late 2004 and early 2005. Submarine groundwater discharge (SGD) was also possibly higher than normal after the 2004 hurricane season, adding nutrients to the coastal ocean. We think the combined discharge was responsible for the unusually persistent red tide in 2005 because the nitrogen demands of the 2005 red tide on the west coast of Florida could not have been satisfied by surface runoff alone.”
https://phys.org/news/2006-06-hurric...ional-red.html
evidence “suggest” is not proof. All they have is anecdotal evidence. They’re basically saying that since red tide was bad last year, and we had a large amount of runoffs, then that proves the red tide gets worse when the runoffs are bad. Sorry, that’s not science, and not proof. Plus, in all you posts so far, you have said the runoffs cause red tide. Still waiting for you to back that up.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JMarkB View Post

evidence “suggest” is not proof. All they have is anecdotal evidence. They’re basically saying that since red tide was bad last year, and we had a large amount of runoffs, then that proves the red tide gets worse when the runoffs are bad. Sorry, that’s not science, and not proof. Plus, in all you posts so far, you have said the runoffs cause red tide. Still waiting for you to back that up.
Quote me where I have ever said that discharges are the cause of red tide. I have said that the discharges contribute to increasing the duration and intensity of red tide events and posted several science backed articles from people who actually know what they’re talking about. What have you done? You’ve failed at basic reading comprehension and have not posted anything close to scientific evidence that backs up your position. You’re not worth any more of my time.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Deep Thoughts View Post


Quote me where I have ever said that discharges are the cause of red tide. I have said that the discharges contribute to increasing the duration and intensity of red tide events and posted several science backed articles from people who actually know what they’re talking about. What have you done? You’ve failed at basic reading comprehension and have not posted anything close to scientific evidence that backs up your position. You’re not worth any more of my time.
Ok, my mistake on you saying red tide was caused by runoffs. That was another poster, jed0012. As far as reading comprehension, I’ll guarantee mines as good, if not better, than yours. Plus, the stuff you posted starts out by saying evidence SUGGEST that the discharges make red tide worse. As several people have already posted, just because this thing happens, then that thing happens, does not prove they were related. And, I will fully agree, it doesn’t mean they’re not related, either. But so far there is no hard evidence. It really doesn’t matter, because even if the Lake O water doesn’t cause red tide to worsen, it causes plenty of other damage without it. It needs to be controlled one way or the other. Hopefully we have finally made a small start. Hopefully we have a dryer summer than last. We will see what happens in the next few months.
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JMarkB View Post

evidence “suggest” is not proof. All they have is anecdotal evidence. They’re basically saying that since red tide was bad last year, and we had a large amount of runoffs, then that proves the red tide gets worse when the runoffs are bad. Sorry, that’s not science, and not proof. Plus, in all you posts so far, you have said the runoffs cause red tide. Still waiting for you to back that up.
He doesn't need to..

Run off creates many other issues!

Who cares what they call it.

Lets just label it pollution from the masses..
Not sure what your defending but the fact is our water quality has gone to shit state wide.

I think you said your family is in the agricultural side so I get your drift and defense..

You prove that runoff doesn't create problems outside of RT. For that matter, prove it isn't a contributing factor to RT.

You can't prove that either.

Call it what you want!

The arguments will go on and unless changes are made soon it will be to late to recover and I believe it has already reached that point.

There ain't a developer or politician that gives a shit about quality of life sustainability in this state.

They sell it every day and know damn good and well they are diminishing that all the way to the bank.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 20biminitwist View Post
He doesn't need to..

Run off creates many other issues!

Who cares what they call it.

Lets just label it pollution from the masses..
Not sure what your defending but the fact is our water quality has gone to shit state wide.

I think you said your family is in the agricultural side so I get your drift and defense..

You prove that runoff doesn't create problems outside of RT. For that matter, prove it isn't a contributing factor to RT.

You can't prove that either.

Call it what you want!

The arguments will go on and unless changes are made soon it will be to late to recover and I believe it has already reached that point.

There ain't a developer or politician that gives a shit about quality of life sustainability in this state.

They sell it every day and know damn good and well they are diminishing that all the way to the bank.
My family raised oranges. No canals or lakes on our property. We are in the central part of the State, nowhere anything that flows into the ocean or GOM. I’m not defensive all. No reason I should be. If you read my last post, and many before that on other threads, you would know that I’m 100% behind cleaning up the mess we’ve caused. I’ve been living here all my 60 plus years. On the water and in the woods most of them. No one has to tell me about the water quality changes. I do know, however, that all of us contribute to our water problems. We all drink it, wash clothes with it, and flush with it, among other things. How much of a sacrifice are we willing to make to change things? Or are we just going to sit around blaming big sugar and Disney. Who, as I’ve posted before, has gorgeous water in their canals and lakes. Unfortunately, I believe you are probably correct in saying we are most likely already too late.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:18 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by JMarkB View Post

My family raised oranges. No canals or lakes on our property. We are in the central part of the State, nowhere anything that flows into the ocean or GOM. I’m not defensive all. No reason I should be. If you read my last post, and many before that on other threads, you would know that I’m 100% behind cleaning up the mess we’ve caused. I’ve been living here all my 60 plus years. On the water and in the woods most of them. No one has to tell me about the water quality changes. I do know, however, that all of us contribute to our water problems. We all drink it, wash clothes with it, and flush with it, among other things. How much of a sacrifice are we willing to make to change things? Or are we just going to sit around blaming big sugar and Disney. Who, as I’ve posted before, has gorgeous water in their canals and lakes. Unfortunately, I believe you are probably correct in saying we are most likely already too late.


Just curious, is where your families orange groves used to be a housing development now? I would much prefer agriculture to a bunch of concrete and ditches. I know many of the groves in the center of the state are and by no fault of the previous growers. The cold kills and diseases really put a hurt on our citrus growers starting in the 70's. All one has to do is get on a hill in Groveland or Clairmont and look at all the rooftops instead what used to be miles of orange trees as far as the eye could see. Kinda of sad.

As for Disney,
Florida has always been a huge swampland, with flooding, lakes, and rivers at every turn. It is why Walt Disney was able to acquire all the land necessary for Disney World at such low prices. Florida has also always had flooding issues. The Kissimmee River, prior to 1962, ran 103 miles from Lake Kissimmee to Lake Okeechobee. [1] The problem with this was that the distance between the two lakes is less than 50 miles. This meant that the lake snaked down and added over 50 miles of river. Due to this, and its depth in some areas, whenever it rained heavily, the land flooded for miles. These flooded areas are known as floodplains, because nothing can be built on them. They flood as soon as it starts to rain and they hold water for long periods of time. The creation of a channelized river became the solution to the floodplains issue.
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Last edited by 20biminitwist; 06-19-2019 at 05:50 AM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:29 AM
  #88  
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There are not many actual groves left in the center of the state. There are hobby groves still but those are also on the decline. Between the freezes and greening citrus is dying in the state. I easiest thing to do for a good payday when your grove dies is to turn that land into a housing development. That is what is happening. These developments add ten times the amount of fertilizer into the ground then a grove ever would. I really dont think people understand how water percolates and travels through the soil and aquifer system in the state.
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:00 AM
  #89  
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The ACOE is an arrogant military operation, and despite the best efforts of Brian Mast, will continue its destructive path. They are aloof, and well protected from civilian input. They are well versed in placating the public. "We're working on the Kissimmee River". Yea, with a one armed guy with a shovel and wheelbarrow. Thet screwed it up in about a year, but it's gonna take 20 years to "fix" it.

The ACOE has done more ecological damage to Florida than all the developers put together.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 20biminitwist View Post
Just curious, is where your families orange groves used to be a housing development now? I would much prefer agriculture to a bunch of concrete and ditches. I know many of the groves in the center of the state are and by no fault of the previous growers. The cold kills and diseases really put a hurt on our citrus growers starting in the 70's. All one has to do is get on a hill in Groveland or Clairmont and look at all the rooftops instead what used to be miles of orange trees as far as the eye could see. Kinda of sad.

As for Disney,
Florida has always been a huge swampland, with flooding, lakes, and rivers at every turn. It is why Walt Disney was able to acquire all the land necessary for Disney World at such low prices. Florida has also always had flooding issues. The Kissimmee River, prior to 1962, ran 103 miles from Lake Kissimmee to Lake Okeechobee. [1] The problem with this was that the distance between the two lakes is less than 50 miles. This meant that the lake snaked down and added over 50 miles of river. Due to this, and its depth in some areas, whenever it rained heavily, the land flooded for miles. These flooded areas are known as floodplains, because nothing can be built on them. They flood as soon as it starts to rain and they hold water for long periods of time. The creation of a channelized river became the solution to the floodplains issue.
Nope, most is pasture with cattle on it. We don’t have a lot left, so the number is fairly small, mostly Cracker Cows that are directly descended from the cattle raised in the 1800’s. They’re smaller than most beef cattle, and most of the people who own them have them because they’re a piece of their heritage, or just because they want something a little different. Our land is in the Green Swamp water shed, and is zoned such that you have to have at least ten acres to put a dwelling on. You cannot subdivide it from the original plan, either. So no housing developments will ever be on our property. Which is the way we want it. Grove property completely recovered from the freezes in the ‘70s, but if something doesn’t happen quick, greening will end it in a few more years.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JMarkB View Post

Nope, most is pasture with cattle on it. We don’t have a lot left, so the number is fairly small, mostly Cracker Cows that are directly descended from the cattle raised in the 1800’s. They’re smaller than most beef cattle, and most of the people who own them have them because they’re a piece of their heritage, or just because they want something a little different. Our land is in the Green Swamp water shed, and is zoned such that you have to have at least ten acres to put a dwelling on. You cannot subdivide it from the original plan, either. So no housing developments will ever be on our property. Which is the way we want it. Grove property completely recovered from the freezes in the ‘70s, but if something doesn’t happen quick, greening will end it in a few more years.
That's good to hear about the zoning. It should set an example to other areas.. It used to be 1 acre minimum around me but the developers have won several battles to sub divide despite fierce opposition. Thank goodness they haven't gotten sewer and water in around me yet. Were surrounded by it but us locals have managed beat the developers back so far. It almost feels like were on an Island in the middle of urban sprawl.

I wish I could say that about the Ranches around me, Starkey, Mitchell, Zambito and Boot! The cows are gone and the apartments, single family homes and shopping centers are popping up by the thousands on land that used to be wet 6 months out of the year. The ditches and drains have taken care of that issue.

Check this map out. Yep, built up right to the bay heads which are the head waters of the Anclote River flowing directly to the gulf.

https://issuu.com/wheelockcommunitie...14581/62272140

Last edited by 20biminitwist; 06-19-2019 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:58 AM
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Here is a neat article about what was once Starkey Ranch. JB and his daughter used to be one of my charter customers just 15 years ago.

Some of you may enjoy this read as it is an example of what has happened to Florida over the years. At least this family set aside some of the land to remain natural.
South Tampa Magazine
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Old 06-19-2019, 03:53 PM
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Do not count on zoning or legislative protection because if legislatures put it there they can take it away. A couple decades ago we created the DRGR (Density Reduction Groundwater Recharge). It limited growth to that one house per 5 or 10 acres thing. They have been chipping away at it ever since and now there are a couple huge golf course communities out there with another one being developed as we speak.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by gfretwell View Post
Do not count on zoning or legislative protection because if legislatures put it there they can take it away. A couple decades ago we created the DRGR (Density Reduction Groundwater Recharge). It limited growth to that one house per 5 or 10 acres thing. They have been chipping away at it ever since and now there are a couple huge golf course communities out there with another one being developed as we speak.
Just like I said. For every zone there is an attempt to re-zone. Public hearings and so on BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Locally, we have won twice. The mis direction will come with the corruption big bucks bring. Our local politicians only see the tax base coming. Then, with the growth they forgot about the cost of the supporting infrastructure required to handle that growth. "may have to have a tax increase"

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