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Let’s debate college student loan debt

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Let’s debate college student loan debt

Old 03-21-2019, 08:38 PM
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Default Let’s debate college student loan debt

I was visiting my mother earlier tonight and the subject of student loan debt came up. She has a bachelors in english from Stonehill and a Masters in business from North Easton, she told me she paid 15k for both 45 years ago (she was in state resident). She also mentioned how ridiculous it is that students pay 40k a year for a usless degree and the colleges should be responsible for allowing students to take out these kinds of loans they will never pay back.
I’m of a different opinion some NOT all, went for a four year vacation for 180k. I believe that when you play stupid games you get stupid prizes. Colleges are businesses in disguise. “You’re about to pay me 180k guaranteed? Sure come on down Idgas”
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:26 PM
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There is nothing to debate. If an adult takes out a loan, it’s on them to know the terms and pay it. Anything otherwise is just avoiding responsibility.

And the vast majority of students could pay for college without a loan if they got off their collective ass and worked hard. Like really hard. two jobs in the summer, one during the year. For those who don’t want to take that path...there are scholarships, student loans, or the option to not attend college and do something else. It’s a free country. No one puts a gun to your head. Every decision has a consequence in life. Some are good, some are bad. It’s pretty simple.

Last edited by Quacktastic; 03-21-2019 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:26 PM
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My oldest had 20 grand and at least half of it was unnecessary. He's 24 and has paid it off. Son #2 went to a state school and has one class left for a business degree. No loan needed, paid cash. If someone wants a STIM degree then a loan is well worth the money. Other then that a cheap state school is the way to go.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:30 PM
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I think that a little more scrutiny should go into student loans. It seems like if you want to go to dental school and borrow as high as 500k to even 1 million that you can just borrow the money and party like a rock star with the money as you go to school. I have actually heard of a dentist graduating with a million in debt.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 View Post
I think that a little more scrutiny should go into student loans. It seems like if you want to go to dental school and borrow as high as 500k to even 1 million that you can just borrow the money and party like a rock star with the money as you go to school. I have actually heard of a dentist graduating with a million in debt.

why is that anyone’s issue other than his own? He is smart enough to scrutinize the loan terms if he is smart enough to be accepted to college...let alone dental school.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:47 PM
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Many degrees are damn near useless when it comes time to actually make a living and repaying the debt. Colleges should be required to present each student with a average yearly salary calculation for each degree, chances of finding gainful employment in that chosen field post graduation and estimated chances that they can service their students loans with said degree. Perhaps even a lifetime expected earnings model too!

Sorry, but I don’t feel a bit sorry for someone that owes $200k on a BS (Bull Shit) degree that is worthless. I have degrees in accounting finance and a MBA all of which lead to good income opportunities and I had to bust my ass to get them. I still recall the music majors in my freshmen dorm that always had time to F off and do absolutely nothing.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:38 PM
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If they are "smart enough to get into college" they are smart enough to figure out the financial impact of their choices. It is not the school's responsibility to tell them there are limited job opportunities or career prospects for those with a bachelor's in Hungarian music history. There are people who attend colleges for purposes of personal enrichment rather than career development. It is the prospective student's responsibility to evaluate their course selection and decide for themselves if what they are studying will be useful to them in their later life. It is also their responsibility to decide how much debt they are willing to amass in the course of their schooling. And as adults they should be held responsible for repaying every nickel of what they owe.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:48 AM
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I would bet if the majority of the loans were not guaranteed by uncle Sam prices would adjust.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:51 AM
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Default rate is relatively low...about 10%.. here are a list of “schools” with high default rates...

Schools with high default rates may lose their eligibility to participate in federal student aid programs. This year, 12 schools are subject to sanctions, including one public, two private, and nine proprietary institutions.

Those schools include:
  • CA—Corona—Advance Beauty Techs Academy
  • FL—Oakland Park—Florida Academy of Health and Beauty
  • IL—Chicago—Larry's Barber College
  • KY—Cumberland—Southeast Kentucky Community and Technical College
  • MA—Worcester—Rob Roy Academy
  • NY—Niagara Falls—Cheryl Fell's School of Business
  • NY—Rochester—Sharp Edge Barber Institute
  • ND—Bismarck—United Tribes Technical College
  • PA—Lancaster—Champ's Barber School
  • PR—Saint Just—Theological University of the Caribbean
  • TN—Madison—Nashville Barber and Style Academy
  • WI—Beloit—First Class Cosmetology School

see a trend?

apparently schools with high default rates “ risk” loosing federal loans..
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:07 AM
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Hello, judging by so many people who I know who left university with huge loans, I might be inclined to give some compulsory classes before going to college, like how mortgages, income tax and loans work, what the responsibility of the lender is and the person who takes out the loan, too many young people I know have no idea whatsoever about any of it, a lot of them will never own their own homes, this is due partly to the shift in society I feel, but when millenials moan about the state of finances it annoys me, but in their defense they chose a different lifestyle and also may never have been taught about finances, our younger years cannot compare to todays, yes I had many jobs, some two or even 3 at a time, but thats because I wanted stuff, car, bike, clothes, beer blah blah blah, my parents took the stance of providing anything I needed but not what I wanted, my dad wouldnt pay a garage to fix my car or bike, showed me how to fix it myself. My brother is a high school teacher and the number of young adults spoon fed is amazing, knowing about money is just as important about knowledge for your degree course, I also agree with the OP and other posters, so many degrees today are useless in the real world, or just useless full stop, makes a mockery of the education system. I don´t know any more if apprenticeships for skilled trades are seen as second rate, they are most certainly not. When the university graduate who needs to get the bus gets pissed off at the blue collar guy or girl who drives a flashy car it makes them envious. I also think businesses should take more of a stance, quite a few still take in graduates into a field they have no qualifications in, just because they want graduates, why not train them from the ground up? Incentives perhaps to students to fill gaps for jobs we need, less lawyers, more doctors and nurses (sorry legal people, too many ambulance chasers in your field giving the rest a bad name), it isn't always necessary to load yourself with crippling student debt, especially if the government won´t back it, not everybody needs to go to university and maybe we should educate our youth about real world issues that might actually be useful rather than teaching them to pass exams and turning out drones, rant over, sorry to the OP if I hijacked this thread.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:15 AM
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60% of kids who start college actually graduate. 27% of graduates work in their field of study. 0.60 x 0.27 = 16% of kids who start college benefit from it. Colleges,banks, and the federal government that allow 18 year old kids to get into 6-digit debt knowing that they will probably not benefit from the cost are taking advantage. 18 may be the legal age to sign contracts but 18 year olds are still inexperienced enough to be taken advantage of.

The problem was created by the federal government. Somebody decided that every kid should go to college and the federal government decided in the 70's to insure student loans. Several things happened as a result. First, there was now unlimited money available for any kid who really didn't belong in college. Second, High Schools, being filled with people who spent their whole lives in school, heavily promoted the idea that the only path to success is college, and Third, colleges started dumbing down their programs and creating useless degrees for the dumb kids who didn't belong in college but now had free money that the college wanted. Fourth, the cost of tuition rises by double digits every year - because free money is available to anyone who wants it.

If you graduated from college in the 50's or 60's, even the early 70's you accomplished something. If you graduated college in the 80's, 90's or after, you went to 13th grade, spent far too much, and started your adult life in debt.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by gumpire View Post
Default rate is relatively low...about 10%.. here are a list of “schools” with high default rates...

Schools with high default rates may lose their eligibility to participate in federal student aid programs. This year, 12 schools are subject to sanctions, including one public, two private, and nine proprietary institutions.

Those schools include:
  • CA—Corona—Advance Beauty Techs Academy
  • FL—Oakland Park—Florida Academy of Health and Beauty
  • IL—Chicago—Larry's Barber College
  • KY—Cumberland—Southeast Kentucky Community and Technical College
  • MA—Worcester—Rob Roy Academy
  • NY—Niagara Falls—Cheryl Fell's School of Business
  • NY—Rochester—Sharp Edge Barber Institute
  • ND—Bismarck—United Tribes Technical College
  • PA—Lancaster—Champ's Barber School
  • PR—Saint Just—Theological University of the Caribbean
  • TN—Madison—Nashville Barber and Style Academy
  • WI—Beloit—First Class Cosmetology School

see a trend?

apparently schools with high default rates “ risk” loosing federal loans..
this trend is because with all these barber/cosmetology school out there, they still can’t teach someone to cut a damn head of hair. 98% of these people suck at their job so those schools deserve to fail.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:27 AM
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My coworker says it will be the next bubble to crash.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:28 AM
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IMHO the inflated costs of all colleges is the biggest scam going - both private and public. With the easy access to loans the "schools" are under no pressure to keep costs down. On the contrary they see a Golden Goose and take advantage of present circumstances to the hilt. In my state of MA, the staff positions and salaries of these universities would stun anyone with an objective viewpoint. And our lead senator is howling about forgiving student debt as a national policy. This is just a massive con game with the taxpayers being fleeced - as usual.

And I suspect that it's not just the liberal arts majors who are encumbered with unsustainable college debts. I have coworkers with engineering degrees that are still paying off their college loans ten years after graduation. If anything is out of whack it would be the unsustainable rising costs of 'education'. The scam has to end some time.

One more thing: my son-in-law is a licensed electrician who earns more than I do with my masters in engineering. I couldn't be more proud of him! He works his butt off to earn every cent.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by grodywhite View Post
IMHO the inflated costs of all colleges is the biggest scam going - both private and public. With the easy access to loans the "schools" are under no pressure to keep costs down. On the contrary they see a Golden Goose and take advantage of present circumstances to the hilt. In my state of MA, the staff positions and salaries of these universities would stun anyone with an objective viewpoint. And our lead senator is howling about forgiving student debt as a national policy. This is just a massive con game with the taxpayers being fleeced - as usual.

And I suspect that it's not just the liberal arts majors who are encumbered with unsustainable college debts. I have coworkers with engineering degrees that are still paying off their college loans ten years after graduation. If anything is out of whack it would be the unsustainable rising costs of 'education'. The scam has to end some time.

One more thing: my son-in-law is a licensed electrician who earns more than I do with my masters in engineering. I couldn't be more proud of him! He works his butt off to earn every cent.
What is an "unsustainable college debt". You aren't supposed to sustain them. You're supposed to pay them off.
How do you feel about the absurd price being payed to electricians?
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:46 AM
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The biggest problem is the Federal government (no surprise). In 1993 the federal government started its takeover of the student loan system and in 2010, the federal government completely took over the student loan business (notice the party in power trend); and rather than reforming it to benefit the students, like any government program, it was all about power over the people. Presently, student loan rated go from 5.05% for subsidized undergraduate loans to 7.6% for Parent Plus - WHY? the federal government could make those loans 3.0% and still make money, the default rate would drop and student borrowers wouldn't be in the deep 20 year hole they are now. The fed's won't do so because they like have indentured servants/slaves to grant the king's pardon to in the form of loan forgiveness.

Some may say student loans are stupid, and maybe they are, but the cost of my initial post high school education (BS in engineering and MBA) including financial aid was the equivalent in today's dollars of $160,000 today (although the same two degrees from the same schools would cost $340,000 in tuition only). I got approximately 25% of that cost in scholarship & aid, paid 5-10% from jobs during school and summers (which also paid for room and board) and borrowed the rest. After graduation from grad school #1 my full time starting job paid the equivalent today of $150k (plus bonus) and that allowed me to pay off my student loans in 5 years while also paying for graduate school #2 (going part time) and living a reasonably modest lifestyle. Without student loans, I would not have been able to acquire the education I have, and there is no way I could have followed the same career path. I am not saying an alternate path may not have been as successful, but the odds are against it.
Fortunately for our kids, my financial success, is allowing them to go through college (and they do work hard there, because they no they only get rewarded when they do good) debt free and enjoy many experiences (extensive travel and going to events) that my lower middle class upbringing never allowed.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:56 AM
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I like the idea of making the school participate in the loan guarantee. Something like 50/50. I think if the school had some skin in the game (repayment ) they might think differently. But as others have said, colleges are a business. Nothing more nothing less and they are NOT looking out for the student at all.
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:01 AM
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I can't stand this subject, everyone that has gone to college and taken out loans knew what they were getting into. I don't go buying a house for 200k then complain about how I have to pay the money back...
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:03 AM
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I also think people should attend a state school for 80k over 4 years instead of going out of state for the same education. Going out of state and spending 150-200k is just pointless. But then again when teachers and guidance counselors are pushing these colleges the kids don’t know any better. Kids want the “cool” factor and they certainly pay for it in debt.
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:09 AM
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Personally I'd like to see state college (NOT private schools) and trade schools publicly funded for "in demand" jobs. Look at work visa's we're issuing, and anything that we bring people from out of the country to do, make majors/trades that support those jobs free. Student must maintain a 3.0 and either maintain part time status along with full time employment or attend school full time. You're allowed up to 6 years of tuition, then you pay your own way from there.

At that point, do away with federal loan programs completely. Yes, some interior designers make $250k/year and that education path should be available for those who want to pursue that dream, but that's not a risk I want to see the government take with my $$$.

Education isn't cheap. Funding education isn't cheap. But it's a freaking bargain compared to the cost of not providing it.

If you look at the math, getting someone into computer science where $100k salary 6-7 years after graduation is realistic, now you get 27% of that back the rest of their life. Someone going from no skills to a welder would see a shift of easily $35k or so income to $80-90k income, so the country would get an additional $10k/year in taxes over 30+ years for the investment.
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