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the complexity of modern cars- from a Toyota forum on stop start feature

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the complexity of modern cars- from a Toyota forum on stop start feature

Old 02-20-2019, 03:44 PM
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Default the complexity of modern cars- from a Toyota forum on stop start feature

This cuts car off at a red light and "saves gas" ??
The Stop & Start system is operational when all of the following conditions
are met:
• The brake pedal is being depressed firmly.
• The engine is adequately warmed up.
• The outside temperature is 23°F (-5°C) or higher.
• The shift lever is in D.
• Front defroster is off.
• The hood is closed.
• The driver's seat belt is fastened.
• The driver's door is closed.
• The accelerator pedal is not being depressed.

●In the following situations the engine may not be stopped by the Stop & Start
system. This is not a malfunction of the Stop & Start system.
• The air conditioning system is being used when the ambient temperature
is high or low.
• The battery is not sufficiently charged, such as if the vehicle has been
parked for a long time and the battery charge has decreased, the electric
load is large, the battery temperature is excessively low or the battery has
deteriorated, or is undergoing a periodic recharge.
• The brake booster vacuum is low.
• The vehicle is stopped on a steep incline.
• The steering wheel is being operated.
• Due to traffic or other circumstances the vehicle is being stopped repeatedly.
• The vehicle is being driven in a high altitude area.
• Engine coolant temperature or transmission fluid temperature is
extremely low or high.
• The battery fluid temperature is extremely low or high.
• For a while after the battery terminals have been disconnected and
reconnected.
• For a while after the battery replacement.
• Power mode or snow mode is selected

who thinks this crap up ? My opinion, when will it stop?
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:47 PM
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Wife’s Jeep did similar crap. At least there was a button I could push to disable it. Never did find where I could change the default to DISABLE. Hated that feature (and the Jeep).
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:49 PM
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This kind of represents the AI warnings we see so much of lately. The only AI that I need is that that tells me where I left my beer.
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:49 PM
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Assuming the Stop start feature is desired all the above makes perfect sense. The SS feature helps car companies reach EPA MPG goals.
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:52 PM
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I was real confused yesterday..a Prius with a Trump sticker. One side wanted to squash the POS, the other side respected the sticker.....
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Old 02-20-2019, 03:54 PM
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I had a rental Mercedes with that, drove me nuts. It felt like I was getting rear ended every time I stopped.
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Eastport205 View Post
I had a rental Mercedes with that, drove me nuts. It felt like I was getting rear ended every time I stopped.
A Trump sticker or stop start?
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WeeKilt View Post

A Trump sticker or stop start?
Stop-Start
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:30 PM
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This is basically how powertrain controls works. When I first started in it 30ish years ago it was 4k of assembly code, 2 SW engineers and a couple cal engineers per package released. Now, it's probably a few hundred sw engineers, half a gig of SW, and a couple dozen cal engineers per package.

Not unlike everything going on now, 30yrs ago land line and maybe a cordless phone. Now it's a computer in your hand that surfs the world, takes pictures and even makes calls. It's called progress.
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardh1 View Post
This cuts car off at a red light and "saves gas" ??
The Stop & Start system is operational when all of the following conditions
are met:
• The brake pedal is being depressed firmly.
• The engine is adequately warmed up.
• The outside temperature is 23°F (-5°C) or higher.
• The shift lever is in D.
• Front defroster is off.
• The hood is closed.
• The driver's seat belt is fastened.
• The driver's door is closed.
• The accelerator pedal is not being depressed.

●In the following situations the engine may not be stopped by the Stop & Start
system. This is not a malfunction of the Stop & Start system.
• The air conditioning system is being used when the ambient temperature
is high or low.
• The battery is not sufficiently charged, such as if the vehicle has been
parked for a long time and the battery charge has decreased, the electric
load is large, the battery temperature is excessively low or the battery has
deteriorated, or is undergoing a periodic recharge.
• The brake booster vacuum is low.
• The vehicle is stopped on a steep incline.
• The steering wheel is being operated.
• Due to traffic or other circumstances the vehicle is being stopped repeatedly.
• The vehicle is being driven in a high altitude area.
• Engine coolant temperature or transmission fluid temperature is
extremely low or high.
• The battery fluid temperature is extremely low or high.
• For a while after the battery terminals have been disconnected and
reconnected.
• For a while after the battery replacement.
• Power mode or snow mode is selected

who thinks this crap up ? My opinion, when will it stop?
And how many $300 connectors and $500 dollar relay/computers are driving all this unnecessary bullshit? And how long before they fail and you can't even start your car? NO THANKS!
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:53 PM
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Kinda makes ya want an old 2 stroke don’t it?
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Old 02-20-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WeeKilt View Post
Kinda makes ya want an old 2 stroke don’t it?
Yea..an OLD Saab...
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Old 02-20-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by billinstuart View Post
Yea..an OLD Saab...
Damn, I totally forgot about those! I dated a girl in high school whose dad had two of those - 96s I think? I don’t remember too well - was more interested in her than her dad’s rides! Lol
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Old 02-20-2019, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by billinstuart View Post
Yea..an OLD Saab...
Hey hey now.

42 mm DelOrtos on a Moto Guzzi LeMans?
Big Fun.
Branch heads, B1 cam, Venolia slugs, Bub pipes, fork brace, braided lines, steering damper, really low clamp ons.
Safety wired.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:05 PM
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I loved my Saab...

anyway, my wife’s Durango has this and it’s annoyAF. Can toggle on/off per start up but cannot be disabled. I guess the starter is the sacrificial “anode” for this crap.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WeeKilt View Post
Kinda makes ya want an old 2 stroke don’t it?
Yep! And that's what I have and will have forever.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:18 PM
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My 2019 f150 has the same setup, and it was difficult to get used to at first for sure.
if you watch the instantaneous fuel economy screen it truly does make a big difference light to light. The truck can do 18.5 running 72 on the highway and almost 16 in town in traffic. Pretty impressed coming from a gas super duty


  • Originally Posted by billinstuart View Post
    I was real confused yesterday..a Prius with a Trump sticker. One side wanted to squash the POS, the other side respected the sticker.....

theres a Prius banging around here with “not a liberal” “nra” and “I’m only driving this so I can afford more ammo”

Guy’s alright in my book
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Last edited by Stray Current; 02-20-2019 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by NJFISH View Post
I loved my Saab...

anyway, my wife’s Durango has this and it’s annoyAF. Can toggle on/off per start up but cannot be disabled. I guess the starter is the sacrificial “anode” for this crap.
starter can take it easily. A warm motor is easy to start. I’m in the alternator/starter reman business. As in large scale. Start stop starters fail for the same reasons non start stop units do. Almost always it’s due to being over amped. Armatures blow out, contacts get burned, etc. These failures are almost always due to folks waiting until their battery completely goes to crap to change it. Rarely do they wear out.

That’s not to say I like it at all. But definitely not seeing any influx of work because of it.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post


starter can take it easily. A warm motor is easy to start. I’m in the alternator/starter reman business. As in large scale. Start stop starters fail for the same reasons non start stop units do. Almost always it’s due to being over amped. Armatures blow out, contacts get burned, etc. These failures are almost always due to folks waiting until their battery completely goes to crap to change it. Rarely do they wear out.

That’s not to say I like it at all. But definitely not seeing any influx of work because of it.
a buddy is a ford tech, and he says they don’t see an appreciable rise ni starter and alternators on vehicles with that feature vs without.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Stray Current View Post


a buddy is a ford tech, and he says they don’t see an appreciable rise ni starter and alternators on vehicles with that feature vs without.
starter wear is almost a non-existent thing. What little bit does occur happens at cold start. Alternators don’t care one way or another.

I’ve seen some pretty detailed metrics regarding UPS and FedEx. They run their trucks ragged, and shut them off at every stop. Starters last similar to other applications that stay running all day.
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