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Buying Organic foods from the grocery

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Buying Organic foods from the grocery

Old 02-13-2019, 04:29 PM
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The issue is that we don't know what is happening to the bees. My wife does what she calls 'bee rescue' during the swarming season and rehomes the swarms in what are hopefully more 'natural' hives. She then donates them to local organic orchardists & farmers to help with pollination and goes check on them for their health. Don't take any honey off them until the hive is well above the self sustaining level and then only enough for our own and the orchadists/farmers eating. Getting bee hives to a long term sustainable level is actually a lot of work. So many swarms seem to arrive with the bees in poor shape, and they sometimes struggle to survive. The ones that do survive and live in the organic surroundings generally get to be quite vigorous and if she catches a swarm from one of her own hives they nearly always grow at a great rate compared to those that come in from somewhere else.

What i find scary is that whilst this is potentially a life changing problem, there seems to be no real urgency to drive down pesticide use because no one can yet 'prove' that a particular pesticide is the problem. How important does something have to be before you stop and say that we are going to change what we do because we can't keep taking the risk that mass pesticide use is killing the bees. Like climate change it is another case of - well no one can prove it is linked to XYZ yet so let's just keep doing XYZ until there is absolute proof of the problem. Then we can make a 10 year plan to change once we have battled it through the courts for a few years demanding compensation for having to change. Anywhere you get big business involved there is usually more money spent on denying and delaying than ever gets spent on trying to fix the problem.
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by saltwaters View Post
Have you ever noticed that every food borne illness caused by bacterial infection comes from organic products?
Really? I didn't realize that Kellogg's Honey Smacks were organic.

https://www.fda.gov/Food/RecallsOutb.../ucm610827.htm
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TTB View Post
Really? I didn't realize that Kellogg's Honey Smacks were organic.

https://www.fda.gov/Food/RecallsOutb.../ucm610827.htm
Were are those artificial flavors when you need them?
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by coores14 View Post
so this is precisely where you lose credibility and is the downfall for all of the chest thumping pro-organic non-gmo cheerleaders.
What you're saying is that your purely anecdotal evidence PROVES to you that you know more and have better "facts" than anyone in the science community that happens to have contradictory evidence. And if you continuously are shown more facts that don't fit your little anecdotal box, then surely the science is tainted by agendas, money, and insider relationships.

that's absolutely absurd.

- "well I smoked cigarettes for 75 years and never got cancer, therefore I KNOW that cigarettes don't cause cancer"
--- "you mean despite the overwhelming fact based evidence provided by scientific research that has run the gauntlet of scrutiny and still has the same conclusions?"
- "yes, despite all of that I know more than them because I never got cancer. Plus, I'm sure all of that research is funded by the medical industry who only want to sell us more radiation machines."
--- "can you provide any proof of that?"
- "look, i'm right and you're wrong. Plus the cigarette lobbyists are tiny compare to radiation machine lobbyists. Duh. Wake up!"



Wake up?

Anyone who has ever read much at all about organic ffoods knows the story I stated is true according to all organic authorities.

I have read these reports over and over. So no it is not just anecdotal at all. This info is common knowledge among naturalists, also among well informed citizens, so wake up is not the right response here.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt Grady 23 Gulfstream View Post
Wake up?

Anyone who has ever read much at all about organic ffoods knows the story I stated is true according to all organic authorities.

I have read these reports over and over. So no it is not just anecdotal at all. This info is common knowledge among naturalists, also among well informed citizens, so wake up is not the right response here.
you clearly missed or didn't bother to follow the "conversation" that I posted and who actually said "wake up" in that conversation.

Organic authorities and naturalists....that's awesome.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt Grady 23 Gulfstream View Post
Wake up?

Anyone who has ever read much at all about organic ffoods knows the story I stated is true according to all organic authorities.

I have read these reports over and over. So no it is not just anecdotal at all. This info is common knowledge among naturalists, also among well informed citizens, so wake up is not the right response here.
also, I'm not sure what "story" you're talking about.
The response of mine that you quoted was my response to your questioning of scientific studies, who funds them, and so on. You didn't have any "story" that I was responding to.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Drako View Post
Here, some data: a list of "synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production": https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...7.354.2&idno=7

Also, what "organic" means is "jumped through the hoops required by the certifying agency". You have some semi-wild raspberries in your backyard that you don't do anything to, just eat what grows on them? They are not organic. Found a blueberry patch in the forest? Nope, not organic either.
You are mixing definitions. You are talking about the definition followed by regulatory groups. It may not be organic by the governments definition, but it could still be organic.
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:24 PM
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Grandad smoked 2 packs of Pall Mall and drunk a 5th everyday for 30 years. Lived to be 88. Could do 100 pushups at 80 like it was nothing.

2 of my moms friends died in their 60's. Exercise and ran daily . Both single and stress free lives. Both smart and good people.

Both died of heart attacks.
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by coores14 View Post
also, I'm not sure what "story" you're talking about.
The response of mine that you quoted was my response to your questioning of scientific studies, who funds them, and so on. You didn't have any "story" that I was responding to.

The story is covered in the questions I asked.

Agendas, Pay off, you know tin foil stuff a lot of people think. That is the story as usual.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by captain28570 View Post
Grandad smoked 2 packs of Pall Mall and drunk a 5th everyday for 30 years. Lived to be 88. Could do 100 pushups at 80 like it was nothing.

2 of my moms friends died in their 60's. Exercise and ran daily . Both single and stress free lives. Both smart and good people.

Both died of heart attacks.

The key for this conversation is none ate organic food.

The ladies were good examples of healthy living without a good diet taking them out early.

Granddad was one of the lucky ones imo, and rewarded for his work.

Nothing is perfect, just all doing our best. Or at least we can do our best if we investigate options for healthy lifestyles.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:13 AM
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always organic milk and eggs. Always organic greens.

Sometimes on the other stuff.

I agree there are some farmers that skirt the requirements but overall it's moronic to think organic and non GMO isn't better for you as a rule. But hey, why listen to science when I can listen to a bunch of fat old guys on THT, they surely know better.

Id be surprised in this long a thread if this list hasn't been posted yet but it's a good one; the highest pesticide retention not levels of different kinds of produce:

https://www.produceretailer.com/arti...lists-released
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Capt Grady 23 Gulfstream View Post
tin foil stuff
Thatís exactly what it is.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:01 AM
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Guess this is in the wrong thread...
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Double tyme View Post
always organic milk and eggs. Always organic greens.

Sometimes on the other stuff.

I agree there are some farmers that skirt the requirements but overall it's moronic to think organic and non GMO isn't better for you as a rule. But hey, why listen to science when I can listen to a bunch of fat old guys on THT, they surely know better.

Id be surprised in this long a thread if this list hasn't been posted yet but it's a good one; the highest pesticide retention not levels of different kinds of produce:

https://www.produceretailer.com/arti...lists-released

listening to science is precisely why some of us find the organic thing to be overhyped. Iíll concede that some studies show slightly higher nutrition levels in organic food. Those studies have yet to be the consensus though. And at the end of those, the summary says (Iíll paraphrase), ďthe small increase in certain nutritional elements is negligible and is likely of no real benefit over eating a healthy diet consisting of fruits and veggies.Ē

now, the GMO thing...thatís where the science really begins to win. There is no credible evidence at all that gmo is harmful. Science overwhelmingly supports gmo.
Again, find me peer reviewed scientific consensus showing harmful effects of gmo. Iíll wait.
And the first person that quotes Natural News or David Wolfe gets a smack in the back of their head.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by cphilip View Post
All food is organic. Some is just less contaminated than others.
I tried to find inorganic eggs in the store yesterday, but they didnít have any.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by williamwallus View Post
Watch out at farmers markets lots of of them just resell store shit
Exactly and some of them are using a lot of the same pesticides and herbicides that everyone else is using but still labeling it as organic.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Y View Post
Exactly and some of them are using a lot of the same pesticides and herbicides that everyone else is using but still labeling it as organic.

My guess is you are guessing and spreading rumors or lies like many here calling certified organic nothing but money grabbing bs.
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Old 02-14-2019, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Capt Grady 23 Gulfstream View Post
My guess is you are guessing and spreading rumors or lies like many here calling certified organic nothing but money grabbing bs.
No, not at all. I live on the Central Coast where Agriculture is huge. I know a lot of the people in the business from field workers to upper management. I speak from experience and some of is not what they say it is. So no, I am not "guessing" or "spreading rumors" on anything. Have a good day.
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Old 02-14-2019, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by coores14 View Post



listening to science is precisely why some of us find the organic thing to be overhyped. Iíll concede that some studies show slightly higher nutrition levels in organic food. Those studies have yet to be the consensus though. And at the end of those, the summary says (Iíll paraphrase), ďthe small increase in certain nutritional elements is negligible and is likely of no real benefit over eating a healthy diet consisting of fruits and veggies.Ē

now, the GMO thing...thatís where the science really begins to win. There is no credible evidence at all that gmo is harmful. Science overwhelmingly supports gmo.
Again, find me peer reviewed scientific consensus showing harmful effects of gmo. Iíll wait.
And the first person that quotes Natural News or David Wolfe gets a smack in the back of their head.

"Negligible and of no real benefit" is what you choose to believe. How has science worked out in the fishery, or pharmaceutical industry, or global warming, or AMA recommend actions, or EPA standards, or natural health supplements, or FDA closing down natural doctors because they cute too many people for too little profit, or FDA prohibiting proven European cities from our market, or FDA allowing unproven meds on the market while holding proven natural cures off the market for years and years???

THAT is your science report that you trust so thoroughly, and all of the above is very easily googled, except iff it is not approved by science you won't believe it.

Well, friend. If you trust only science you will NEVER be super healthy, or have longevity, unless you have super genes to overcome the allowed bacterial infections and artificial ingredients they LOVE to feed you in the name of profits, and you have the nerve to call the natural organic industry "over hyped" marketing .

In closing, I have only started out giving testimony, then you wanted science involved, the OP asked for opinions, not scientific evidence.

I stated long ago my opinion(and many professional s) of scientific research and studies, polls, etc. FOR PAY or for favors, with Washington DC being the headquarters for most of those transactions and reactions.​

Edit. The first statement of negligible effect sounds exactly like the FDA required statement on natural supplements "not proven to prevent or cure any disease".

Not proven to FDA or NMA because they refuse to test to prove the claims of natural supplements mfrs. They only want synthetic cures because the pharmaceutical industry lobbyists are too deep into the favor and indebtedness of politicians ie swamp lovers.

Before you deny that info think back over the years how many scandals have been prove. Not just claimed.

Last edited by Capt Grady 23 Gulfstream; 02-14-2019 at 06:55 AM. Reason: aff
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Old 02-14-2019, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Y View Post
No, not at all. I live on the Central Coast where Agriculture is huge. I know a lot of the people in the business from field workers to upper management. I speak from experience and some of is not what they say it is. So no, I am not "guessing" or "spreading rumors" on anything. Have a good day.

Ok, elaborate on your findings please.

Are these 'certifief' organic farms or just organic farms?

Which specific chemicals are they spraying, some are allowed by USDA?

Is this a rogue organic criminal or is this widespread in the Central Coast?

I stated earlier "nothing is perfect", also I wouldIsay 'buyer beware' on everything. And TEST for yourself, don't trust everything anyone says, especially scientific research.
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