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Are all the boat shows anti-gun?

Old 02-12-2019, 08:08 AM
  #201  
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Originally Posted by fmb3 View Post
You people should really look into the safety statistics of legal concealed carry people using their guns in public. The ignorance of the anti carry people in this thread is epic

Oh please enlighten me. Would love to see some links to these statistics. Not saying I don't believe you, and I'm open to learning something new.

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Old 02-12-2019, 08:21 AM
  #202  
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If the situation is dangerous enough that you have to carry a pistol, isn't it dangerous enough that you have to wear a vest . A gun isn't going to keep you from getting shot. How many CCW people want to wear a vest into the boat show for protection?
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:39 AM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by bisoned View Post
Oh please enlighten me. Would love to see some links to these statistics. Not saying I don't believe you, and I'm open to learning something new.
I had sworn that I wasn't going to post anything to this thread anymore (I was taught that it was a mistake to argue with fools, as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.)

Bisoned, I totally agree with you. I just took your post as an invitation to post some statistics from John Hopkins School of Public Health: https://www.jhsph.edu/research/cente...f-firearms.pdf

In summary, John Hopkins' study found that:

1. Violent crime increases steadily with each year that a "right to carry" law is in effect.

2. Civilians rarely use concealed guns to defend themselves from being criminally victimized.

3. Data shows no clear benefit to using a gun in defense during a criminal attack.

4. The vast majority of mass shootings in the US do not occur in "gun free" zones.

What I've noted from some of the dumber "pro-concealed carry" comments on this thread is that some pro-CCW folks have a scary idea of gun safety (i.e. the prior post about how a gun didn't jump up and kill someone, so the gun was not the cause of death, it was just the "rout" (sp) chosen). If your idea of gun safety is that, so long as your gun is kept somewhere were it can't jump up on its own accord and shoot someone all by itself, it's safe, then please keep your guns far away from me and my friends and family.

I don't really expect to convince any of the "die hard" pro-gun folks, as it seems some of these folks haven't given any real thought to their positions. I'm a gun owner myself, but I try to be sensible about the positions I take, and am willing to listen to any arguments, and adjust my thinking if I'm convinced. But cussing about liberals, and failing to use logical arguments, isn't terribly convincing to me.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:06 AM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by lps View Post
I had sworn that I wasn't going to post anything to this thread anymore (I was taught that it was a mistake to argue with fools, as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.)

Bisoned, I totally agree with you. I just took your post as an invitation to post some statistics from John Hopkins School of Public Health: https://www.jhsph.edu/research/cente...f-firearms.pdf

In summary, John Hopkins' study found that:

1. Violent crime increases steadily with each year that a "right to carry" law is in effect.

2. Civilians rarely use concealed guns to defend themselves from being criminally victimized.

3. Data shows no clear benefit to using a gun in defense during a criminal attack.

4. The vast majority of mass shootings in the US do not occur in "gun free" zones.

What I've noted from some of the dumber "pro-concealed carry" comments on this thread is that some pro-CCW folks have a scary idea of gun safety (i.e. the prior post about how a gun didn't jump up and kill someone, so the gun was not the cause of death, it was just the "rout" (sp) chosen). If your idea of gun safety is that, so long as your gun is kept somewhere were it can't jump up on its own accord and shoot someone all by itself, it's safe, then please keep your guns far away from me and my friends and family.

I don't really expect to convince any of the "die hard" pro-gun folks, as it seems some of these folks haven't given any real thought to their positions. I'm a gun owner myself, but I try to be sensible about the positions I take, and am willing to listen to any arguments, and adjust my thinking if I'm convinced. But cussing about liberals, and failing to use logical arguments, isn't terribly convincing to me.
lets break down #1 to start with. how many of those violent crimes are by a CCW vs violent crimes by non CCW and or illegal guns and felons?

they lack of break down, and using a very vague statement makes it null and void right out of the gate. as Bisoned asked, provided some actual statistics, not some liberal vague statement they pulled out of their backside grasping at straws! real statistics have numbers in the statements!
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:14 AM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by lps View Post
I had sworn that I wasn't going to post anything to this thread anymore (I was taught that it was a mistake to argue with fools, as they will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience.)

Bisoned, I totally agree with you. I just took your post as an invitation to post some statistics from John Hopkins School of Public Health: https://www.jhsph.edu/research/cente...f-firearms.pdf

In summary, John Hopkins' study found that:

1. Violent crime increases steadily with each year that a "right to carry" law is in effect.

2. Civilians rarely use concealed guns to defend themselves from being criminally victimized.

3. Data shows no clear benefit to using a gun in defense during a criminal attack.

4. The vast majority of mass shootings in the US do not occur in "gun free" zones.

What I've noted from some of the dumber "pro-concealed carry" comments on this thread is that some pro-CCW folks have a scary idea of gun safety (i.e. the prior post about how a gun didn't jump up and kill someone, so the gun was not the cause of death, it was just the "rout" (sp) chosen). If your idea of gun safety is that, so long as your gun is kept somewhere were it can't jump up on its own accord and shoot someone all by itself, it's safe, then please keep your guns far away from me and my friends and family.

I don't really expect to convince any of the "die hard" pro-gun folks, as it seems some of these folks haven't given any real thought to their positions. I'm a gun owner myself, but I try to be sensible about the positions I take, and am willing to listen to any arguments, and adjust my thinking if I'm convinced. But cussing about liberals, and failing to use logical arguments, isn't terribly convincing to me.

Gun Facts | Gun Control Facts Concerning Concealed Carry
alot more information than your vague jonh hopkins article!
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bisoned View Post
Oh please enlighten me. Would love to see some links to these statistics. Not saying I don't believe you, and I'm open to learning something new.
try post 193 then get back to us please
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:35 AM
  #207  
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He Sure likes his Guns...............
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:50 AM
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do we need to post some pics of feminine girly men to show the ones that dont like guns? is that how this works?
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:12 AM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by Rolandt03 View Post
Gun Facts | Gun Control Facts Concerning Concealed Carry
alot more information than your vague jonh hopkins article!
On first blush, your study and mine aren't inconsistent. Yours looks at homicide rates, and the John Hopkins one looks at violent crime rates. Johns Hopkins finds violent crime rates go up in right-to-carry states, and yours cites a study that says homicide rates are lower in states with right to carry laws.

My life experience tells me guns don't make you safer. I don't personally know anyone who has protected their family, or stopped a crime by using a gun. I personally know many who have gone to prison, or to the grave, by using a gun. I've never been in a situation in my life where the outcome would have improved had I, or anyone else in the area, had a gun.

As I said, I'm a gun owner. I own guns for hunting, and sport (we do some target shooting and skeet shooting). But I consider them dangerous instruments, and keep them locked in my gun cabinet, unloaded, when not in use.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:24 AM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by fmb3 View Post
do we need to post some pics of feminine girly men to show the ones that dont like guns? is that how this works?
I just thought it was Hilarious, I like guns, its just another tool like in the tool box. But I don't need to make love to one. LOL
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by lps View Post
On first blush, your study and mine aren't inconsistent. Yours looks at homicide rates, and the John Hopkins one looks at violent crime rates. Johns Hopkins finds violent crime rates go up in right-to-carry states, and yours cites a study that says homicide rates are lower in states with right to carry laws.

My life experience tells me guns don't make you safer. I don't personally know anyone who has protected their family, or stopped a crime by using a gun. I personally know many who have gone to prison, or to the grave, by using a gun. I've never been in a situation in my life where the outcome would have improved had I, or anyone else in the area, had a gun.

As I said, I'm a gun owner. I own guns for hunting, and sport (we do some target shooting and skeet shooting). But I consider them dangerous instruments, and keep them locked in my gun cabinet, unloaded, when not in use.

my study provides actual numbers and ratios, your provides a vague statement that does not differentiate between the "good guys" and the "bad guys" so again your article doesnt hold much substance. cant have statistics with out numbers!
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:35 AM
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Post 193 stats deal specifically with cwp holders. . .
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by fmb3 View Post
Post 193 stats deal specifically with cwp holders. . .
yes saw that! im talking about the jonh hopkins article that lp mentioned!
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:27 AM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by lps View Post
On first blush, your study and mine aren't inconsistent. Yours looks at homicide rates, and the John Hopkins one looks at violent crime rates. Johns Hopkins finds violent crime rates go up in right-to-carry states, and yours cites a study that says homicide rates are lower in states with right to carry laws.

My life experience tells me guns don't make you safer. I don't personally know anyone who has protected their family, or stopped a crime by using a gun. I personally know many who have gone to prison, or to the grave, by using a gun. I've never been in a situation in my life where the outcome would have improved had I, or anyone else in the area, had a gun.

As I said, I'm a gun owner. I own guns for hunting, and sport (we do some target shooting and skeet shooting). But I consider them dangerous instruments, and keep them locked in my gun cabinet, unloaded, when not in use.
To be blunt, the statistics should not take into account, nor the government care about, folks who cause harm to themselves with a gun. It's sad, its tragic, but it is of their own doing. No laws should be put in place penalizing the rest of us for the stupidity or intentional downfall of them.

I've never been in a situation where I've drawn a gun on someone, or threatened them with one. I have twice been in a situation where I confronted trespassers by surprise while possessing one. I was hunting, they were there poaching. Having already been there with my gun out and made ready didn't necessarily change the situation, but it pretty well made sure the situation didn't shift out of my favor.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kidzdent View Post

Hereís the problem with the gun lobby...Iím a conservative who has never owned or shot a gun in my life...I just donít get it...I also live on the beach and surf in 42 degree water in the wintertime at least once a week and iím sure most people donít understand that either...I am for everyoneís constitutional right to arm themselves but I also think more safeguards are needed for gun purchase..but when people take such a hard line stance on carrying there guns everywhere I have trouble siding with the gun lobbyists..there has to be a balance because thereís a lot more people like me around..
Here's a pragmatic (and intended to be respectful) response: those who carry tend to do so universally. I.e., recall the days before mandatory seatbelt use. Typically people would get used to them and wear them all the time, after a while. Because who can ever predict when you're going to need to have your seatbelt for the accident? By definition, accidents are unplanned. The same is true with CCW... you start to carry at specific events at first, and then graduate to full-time carry. So if I were going to the boat show this weekend, straight there and straight home, maybe i don't need to carry this time. Just like when I drive to the corner store a mile away, maybe i don't need to wear my seatbelt. But on the other hand, maybe i planned to go to the boat show, go to a store, go to the movies, etc. So now I either carry to the show, take it off and stow a weapon in a far more accessible location like a car, and then resume carrying. Or I am forced to go the day without carrying. That's fundamentally the conflict raised by statutes and notices like these.

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Old 02-12-2019, 02:15 PM
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This thing is now over 215 post and its so simple. The boat shows don't control if you can carry its the venue. If you don't like the rules just don't come. Like it or not the owner of the venue can make this decision.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by fishingfun View Post
This thing is now over 215 post and its so simple. The boat shows don't control if you can carry its the venue. If you don't like the rules just don't come. Like it or not the owner of the venue can make this decision.
the venue/owner doesnít control a thing. They just have (largely ignored) rules.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:26 PM
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You carry a lot, so it becomes part of your feeling of protection etc. Your neighbors doing the same things as you don't carry and never think about needing to. Your need 'to carry' can be a lot about your perceptions and views. Doesn't make it right or wrong, but the vast majority of people survive life without carrying a gun everywhere they go. It is interesting to read how many people that carry would avoid a boat show because they can't carry a weapon at it. It is also a bit scary to think that they feel so at risk without their gun on hand. In the big picture it is a sad reflection on society that people only feel safe when carrying a gun at something like a boat show. That is what the focus should be on fixing.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Aliboy View Post
You carry a lot, so it becomes part of your feeling of protection etc. Your neighbors doing the same things as you don't carry and never think about needing to. Your need 'to carry' can be a lot about your perceptions and views. Doesn't make it right or wrong, but the vast majority of people survive life without carrying a gun everywhere they go. It is interesting to read how many people that carry would avoid a boat show because they can't carry a weapon at it. It is also a bit scary to think that they feel so at risk without their gun on hand. In the big picture it is a sad reflection on society that people only feel safe when carrying a gun at something like a boat show. That is what the focus should be on fixing.
but why the unexplainable shivering fear of guns by those that donít carry.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:36 PM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post


but why the unexplainable shivering fear of guns by those that don’t carry.
Why the constant insulting of people who hold differing opinions from you? I think most everyone who thinks concealed carry permit holders should leave their guns elsewhere when entering onto private property where weapons are prohibited are just taking a common sense, rational position. To insist on taking your guns onto another person's property, when that person has asked you not to bring your gun makes you an a__hole, not a patriot. Insisting that you follow those rules doesn't mean you have a "shivering fear of guns." It makes you a decent member of society. Carry a gun if you must, but follow the rules and be respectful. I don't think that's much to ask.
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