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About umbella ins. coverage and asset protection

Old 10-29-2018, 11:30 AM
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Default About umbella ins. coverage and asset protection

I thought I was well protected, asset wise, by purchasing basic umbrella protection along with extended protection just in case, through my homeowner's insurance. Recently , my long-term handyman, whom I've used for decades, fell from a ladder while attempting to open my accordion hurricane shutters after he had closed them for a threatening hurricane a week prior..He suffered a vertebral fracture and was hospitalized in the VA for a few weeks.
For clarification : I did not own the ladder it was his and was missing the friction pads on the bottom. Either the ladder slipped and he went down, or he fell off of it is unknown as he had no memory of the event. I had tried to get my shutter co to come out but as usual,a week before a hurricane it's impossible to get anyone to come out .
Long story short : he sued for $1.3 million. I now had two ins. companies representing me (basic coverage and extended) when it finally went to mitigation. The back and forth was a treasure hunt for the opposing counsel and my side capitulated,against my wishes for $526,000. Seems they were terrified of litigation and rolled-over. There was no permanent disability issue by the way.
So much for my introduction to the legal system. Now I am uninsurable as for an extended liability policy based on this one claim in 40yrs. of coverage.
I am in the process of trying to get any high risk company to cover me,so far uneventfully, and am meeting with a lawyer for perhaps setting up an offshore account to own my assets and protect them. Anyone with any suggestions for asset protection as I have some real estate with no mtg.? all this is for the future as my handyman is now very happy.

e
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Old 10-29-2018, 11:40 AM
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So your insurance co dropped you in the process?

I would have to say that it served it's purpose, but given your lack of involvement in the situation at hand, disappointing that they would drop you in such a scenario.
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Old 10-29-2018, 11:45 AM
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Annuities and life insurance are asset protected.

In theory you could sell off all your assets, dump them into a simple deferred annuity and then not ever annuitize (sp?). This way you’d still have your money and wouldn’t be stuck taking payments from the insurance company.
Theres some pretty decent deferred annuities out there with net fees around 1%.
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Old 10-29-2018, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by skindr View Post
I thought I was well protected, asset wise, by purchasing basic umbrella protection along with extended protection just in case, through my homeowner's insurance. Recently , my long-term handyman, whom I've used for decades, fell from a ladder while attempting to open my accordion hurricane shutters after he had closed them for a threatening hurricane a week prior..He suffered a vertebral fracture and was hospitalized in the VA for a few weeks.
For clarification : I did not own the ladder it was his and was missing the friction pads on the bottom. Either the ladder slipped and he went down, or he fell off of it is unknown as he had no memory of the event. I had tried to get my shutter co to come out but as usual,a week before a hurricane it's impossible to get anyone to come out .
Long story short : he sued for $1.3 million. I now had two ins. companies representing me (basic coverage and extended) when it finally went to mitigation. The back and forth was a treasure hunt for the opposing counsel and my side capitulated,against my wishes for $526,000. Seems they were terrified of litigation and rolled-over. There was no permanent disability issue by the way.
So much for my introduction to the legal system. Now I am uninsurable as for an extended liability policy based on this one claim in 40yrs. of coverage.
I am in the process of trying to get any high risk company to cover me,so far uneventfully, and am meeting with a lawyer for perhaps setting up an offshore account to own my assets and protect them. Anyone with any suggestions for asset protection as I have some real estate with no mtg.? all this is for the future as my handyman is now very happy.

e
You really should consult an attorney who specializes in asset protection. I know someone very qualified in the Orlando area. If you're interested shoot me a PM and I'll share his contact info.

I'm assuming by your name that you are a medical professional. You probably already have some knowledge of Florida's asset protection laws. If you decide to transfer the real estate to an LLC, it must have two members to provide protection in Florida. There are all kinds of other options like Alaskan Business Trusts, etc, but that gets pricey and may be overkill.
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:10 PM
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hiring people to do things that are not bonded and insured can cost a lot more than what you pay them for the little job you wanted to save money on.

If your house and other assets are transferred to a LLC or other entity, I guess that LLC or whatever could get insurance on the property that you cannot?

Is a 401K also a protected asset?

I was thinking of pulling out of my 401K the company stock ( actually everything) and just pay the taxes on the cost basis so I will not have to start taking the required yearly payments when I turn 70 1/2.
but this thread has me thinking that may not be a good idea if the 401K is protected

Last edited by 99yam40; 10-29-2018 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 10-29-2018, 01:17 PM
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Well that is a terrifying read.
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Old 10-29-2018, 01:36 PM
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I would ask your attorney about a Family Limited Partnership and see if it would be beneficial.

Last edited by Incisor1; 10-30-2018 at 08:36 AM. Reason: edit
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:40 PM
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Did the worker have any form of insurance?
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:12 PM
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Hate to say it BUT this is what happens when you use UNINSURED workers to save a few bucks.

I ALWAYS request a copy of W Comp from anyone that does work for me, however most that do work for me are my clients that I know have it


Got a client now, homeowner, that had some fly by night tree service cutting some trees. One of the guys “employees” (paid in cash every day ) fell and got banged up pretty bad. Now homeowner has some lawyer going after his insurance and who knows what else since Employer did not have a pot to piss in
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tprice View Post
Got a client now, homeowner, that had some fly by night tree service cutting some trees. One of the guys “employees” (paid in cash every day ) fell and got banged up pretty bad. Now homeowner has some lawyer going after his insurance and who knows what else since Employer did not have a pot to piss in
Not to make a dumb comment, but if the "employee" is paid in cash every day, how is there even a paper trail to tie him back to the homeowner?

A friend got a letter in the mail - woman tripped and fell on his sidewalk, can we please have your insurance info? He'd never so much as seen the woman before.
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:48 PM
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Most marinas won't let contractors step foot to work without proof of insurance...there is a reason... I would think a house is even more important.

How do you know you are uninsurable? You have tried dozens of different companies and they all said get lost?
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:49 PM
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Interesting story. I am glad that you had insurance for this particular mishap. I hate to use insurance for any claim because like you I have had insurance policies cancelled when I make claims. It does seem like a drag that one strike and you are out of the excess liability game forever.
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:25 PM
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I am in the insurance business. I am not even sure where to start here, I mean using uninsured labor for work at height - yikes. The handyman wins.
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Old 10-30-2018, 01:47 AM
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If married TBE which would prevent anyone from taking assest as long as wife and yourself are attached to the asset jointly unless both of you are being sued at same time.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:15 AM
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Interesting situation. What was your liability in his accident? Did he have insurance? Was the money awarded for his medical bills or pain and suffering? Seems crazy that your insurance rolled over like they did?
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by strange View Post
Interesting situation. What was your liability in his accident? Did he have insurance? Was the money awarded for his medical bills or pain and suffering? Seems crazy that your insurance rolled over like they did?
Ins. co. probably figured that after his medical bills, loss of income, etc, plus litigation costs, that $500k wasn't worth fighting over, compared to the initial $1.3 mil demand.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Avid 24 View Post
I am in the insurance business. I am not even sure where to start here, I mean using uninsured labor for work at height - yikes. The handyman wins.
I guess I am playing Russian Roulette by not bothering to check into the insurance on folks that do labor for me. Perhaps I should get the energy to check things out.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by strange View Post
Interesting situation. What was your liability in his accident? Did he have insurance? Was the money awarded for his medical bills or pain and suffering? Seems crazy that your insurance rolled over like they did?
Consent to settle, it's in Most insurance policies and done for a reason. Judge and Jury would have given the leech twice what insurance did and the attorneys know that.
Laborer only received 60% but hey, it was Free Money to him
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tprice View Post
Hate to say it BUT this is what happens when you use UNINSURED workers to save a few bucks.

I ALWAYS request a copy of W Comp from anyone that does work for me, however most that do work for me are my clients that I know have it


Got a client now, homeowner, that had some fly by night tree service cutting some trees. One of the guys “employees” (paid in cash every day ) fell and got banged up pretty bad. Now homeowner has some lawyer going after his insurance and who knows what else since Employer did not have a pot to piss in
Can't an insured worker sue you anyways? I'm under the impression that in USA any can sue anyone any time for any reason. And they will. A $500,000 settlement is likely much more than the insurance Workman's comp pays. And the exciting news is that the lawyers on each side still got paid, and the plaintiffs lawyer got probably 40%.

Great country isn't it?
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tprice View Post
Hate to say it BUT this is what happens when you use UNINSURED workers to save a few bucks.

I ALWAYS request a copy of W Comp from anyone that does work for me, however most that do work for me are my clients that I know have it


Got a client now, homeowner, that had some fly by night tree service cutting some trees. One of the guys “employees” (paid in cash every day ) fell and got banged up pretty bad. Now homeowner has some lawyer going after his insurance and who knows what else since Employer did not have a pot to piss in
You should get the WC COI from their insurance carrier. Just because they have a copy does not mean it hasn't been canceled.
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