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About umbella ins. coverage and asset protection

Old 10-30-2018, 10:21 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by mikefloyd View Post
You should get the WC COI from their insurance carrier. Just because they have a copy does not mean it hasn't been canceled.
True but then what stops an insurance policy from being canceled after you verify its in force? That is why landlords want to be added as an additional interest so they can receive notifications of cancellations. I doubt contractors are going to want to add their clients as additional interests on their policies. I wonder if there is a law that would cover a consumer in the case where a company misrepresents that they have insurance, they let it lapse, or its canceled while a job is on-going?
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:26 AM
  #22  
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I just went back through the OP's original post. The true DB in this situation is his insurance company. OP was covered for this. This is what insurance is for. The problem is that he was cancelled. Now, whether the claim was valid or over-paid is a different issue.
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Sprockets View Post
I just went back through the OP's original post. The true DB in this situation is his insurance company. OP was covered for this. This is what insurance is for. The problem is that he was cancelled. Now, whether the claim was valid or over-paid is a different issue.
I don't know that I agree. By employing uninsured workers, you open yourself up to scammers and folks that may "slip and fall" on purpose. Imagine a world in which most contractors are uninsured and homeowners regularly employ uninsured workers that make such claims... home owners and umbrella premiums probably would be much higher as a whole. CYA
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:00 AM
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Thanks so much for the comments. I wish to reiterate a few facts : Prior to a hurricane, it is virtually impossible to get anyone to come out for shutter placement. Believe me, I tried a week before to get an insured company by calling around and they were all booked. Remember, actual hurricane warnings aren't issued until 72hrs or less before the event. I tried when things looked threatening to get someone out to no avail. This was well before any warnings were issued.Remember that Irma was a cat 5 at that time with much panic present.
. So, I wasn't trying to save a few dollars but used my handyman to use a last resort. On my Keys rentals I have shutters beneath the stilts on the house and called for days to get anyone to put up the shutters, even some asking $300 for a one way install and no luck. I left these properties unshuttered with no other choices.
Another point you all need to understand,as I was shocked to learn : If your employee, or anyone suing you is told, He will be held responsible for the cost of medical care even if he has insurance if he is successful in a judgement. Case in point: my guy had VA insurance so, I felt protected against the cost of his medical care. Guess again - any judgement first pays off the medical costs in Fl.from the judgement. This fact forces the plantiff to start the amount of the suit in the six figures, as I found out as the judgement first satisfies the VA.
The sad facts are that I am physically unable to install these shutters, I had nothing to do with this accident. My liability as alleged by other side was that I failed to maintain the ladder as he lied and said it was mine, I failed to maintain the roof - a 7year old metal roof in perfect condition and that I didnt call an ambulance. This guy was 6'4 and super macho and refused at on at least 8 occasions to have an ambulance called. I even offered to drive him to the hospital . He refused and ,after regrouping for about an hr. Drove himself home against my recommendations.
Even at the mitigation, I asked all present, even the head mitigator and all lawyers what I am supposed to do in the future and not one had any suggestions !
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:09 AM
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Aren't licensed trades people in Florida required to have insurance? I only ask as I was considering getting a building contractor's license and that was one of the requirements.
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by skindr View Post
Thanks so much for the comments. I wish to reiterate a few facts : Prior to a hurricane, it is virtually impossible to get anyone to come out for shutter placement. Believe me, I tried a week before to get an insured company by calling around and they were all booked. Remember, actual hurricane warnings aren't issued until 72hrs or less before the event. I tried when things looked threatening to get someone out to no avail. This was well before any warnings were issued.Remember that Irma was a cat 5 at that time with much panic present.
. So, I wasn't trying to save a few dollars but used my handyman to use a last resort. On my Keys rentals I have shutters beneath the stilts on the house and called for days to get anyone to put up the shutters, even some asking $300 for a one way install and no luck. I left these properties unshuttered with no other choices.
Another point you all need to understand,as I was shocked to learn : If your employee, or anyone suing you is told, He will be held responsible for the cost of medical care even if he has insurance if he is successful in a judgement. Case in point: my guy had VA insurance so, I felt protected against the cost of his medical care. Guess again - any judgement first pays off the medical costs in Fl.from the judgement. This fact forces the plantiff to start the amount of the suit in the six figures, as I found out as the judgement first satisfies the VA.
The sad facts are that I am physically unable to install these shutters, I had nothing to do with this accident. My liability as alleged by other side was that I failed to maintain the ladder as he lied and said it was mine, I failed to maintain the roof - a 7year old metal roof in perfect condition and that I didnt call an ambulance. This guy was 6'4 and super macho and refused at on at least 8 occasions to have an ambulance called. I even offered to drive him to the hospital . He refused and ,after regrouping for about an hr. Drove himself home against my recommendations.
Even at the mitigation, I asked all present, even the head mitigator and all lawyers what I am supposed to do in the future and not one had any suggestions !
I would install security cameras. They could've captured this. Would've pulled out a phone to record video and pictures too.
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mystery View Post
I would install security cameras. They could've captured this. Would've pulled out a phone to record video and pictures too.
A little bit of paranoia is probably helpful in today's world.
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:55 AM
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This is both a terrifying and eye opening thread. Sorry you're stuck in this situation.

Almost seems it would have been cheaper to skip the shutters all together and let insurance pay that damage!
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Old 10-30-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Majors View Post
This is both a terrifying and eye opening thread. Sorry you're stuck in this situation.

Almost seems it would have been cheaper to skip the shutters all together and let insurance pay that damage!
hindsight is 20/20

I discovered something interesting about asset protection in Florida. You can have a homestead exempted property and go bankrupt and keep the property. In my reading I discovered that you can have a sizeable amount of acreage (maybe 160 acres) if you aren't in an incorporated city. If your bankruptcy is in a city you are limited to half an acre. And you have to have the homestead exemption for maybe 5 years before it is effective in a bankruptcy.

Please study the law yourself before you act on this advice. I bought a home in the city on an acre and was surprised that I needed a half acre in order to take advantage of the law.

I am not planning a bankruptcy but I have hired a number of workers to help around the house and I haven't bothered to check on their insurance. So you never know what might happen next.

Last edited by Lobstercatcher229; 10-30-2018 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 10-30-2018, 01:27 PM
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Thanks for the timely thread. I just fired my handyman who was going to clean my gutters. I hired a proprietary company and obtained their insurance and Workman's Comp coverage.
Sad truth is, anybody injured will still sue the property owner------because they can. I carry 5 million in extra insurance, but as soon as my company settles any future claim, I too will be out of insurance.

Sick as hell.
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Old 10-30-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mystery View Post
True but then what stops an insurance policy from being canceled after you verify its in force? That is why landlords want to be added as an additional interest so they can receive notifications of cancellations. I doubt contractors are going to want to add their clients as additional interests on their policies. I wonder if there is a law that would cover a consumer in the case where a company misrepresents that they have insurance, they let it lapse, or its canceled while a job is on-going?
Actually since the cancellation would probably be mailed even that isn't iron clad.
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Old 10-30-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dssmith View Post
Thanks for the timely thread. I just fired my handyman who was going to clean my gutters. I hired a proprietary company and obtained their insurance and Workman's Comp coverage.
Sad truth is, anybody injured will still sue the property owner------because they can. I carry 5 million in extra insurance, but as soon as my company settles any future claim, I too will be out of insurance.

Sick as hell.
Do you mean to say that even if the person injured carries their own insurance, they can still sue your insurance and your insurance can drop you?
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:01 PM
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Absolutely.

People with health insurance that pay their entire bill sue their physicians every day. And the fact that they have insurance is not allowed in a court of law. The plaintiff does not sue your insurance company, they sue you. Your company hires attorneys for you and pays their expenses/costs. And if your company settles on your behalf they can drop you any time they wish. This is a real fact, and problem in many states where there is only one malpractice insurance carrier in the state, and your hospital requires you to have coverage.

No different than any other tort action.

What I do not know, nor can I speak clearly about is when Workmans Comp is involved. If you are covered by workmans comp there are tables that cover damages, and that's all you will ever get. I do not know if that prevents you from additionally filing suit against everybody anyway. (i.e. the ladder manufacturer, the homeowner, the roofer, the shudder company, the city, etc)
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:14 PM
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If anything like this happens to anyone in the future, get your phone out if you are there. Record everything including asking the guy if he wants medical help, and is it his ladder. You should have been able to document those things before he left.
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Majors View Post
Do you mean to say that even if the person injured carries their own insurance, they can still sue your insurance and your insurance can drop you?
Welcome to America.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:11 PM
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only way to get around al of this is not to own any property .

I guess that is why LLC s are formed to own property
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:53 AM
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I highly recommend Shawn Snyder at Snyder and Snyder in Fort Lauderdale, one of the best firms in FL for what you need.
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:10 AM
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I always though a Homestead Property In Florida was protected from litigation, no need to hide it in an LLC?
using contractors all the time, roof work, tree trimming, etc., never ask for insurance..
Also thought 401Ks and IRS was somehow protected.
My charter boat is certainly owned by an LLC but not home or secondary home.
Looks like I need to re-think that
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by csy man View Post
I always though a Homestead Property In Florida was protected from litigation, no need to hide it in an LLC?
using contractors all the time, roof work, tree trimming, etc., never ask for insurance..
Also thought 401Ks and IRS was somehow protected.
My charter boat is certainly owned by an LLC but not home or secondary home.
Looks like I need to re-think that
Statutes & Constitution :Constitution : Online Sunshine
SECTION 4. Homestead; exemptions.—
(a) There shall be exempt from forced sale under process of any court, and no judgment, decree or execution shall be a lien thereon, except for the payment of taxes and assessments thereon, obligations contracted for the purchase, improvement or repair thereof, or obligations contracted for house, field or other labor performed on the realty, the following property owned by a natural person...............
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