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Salary question for the THT braintrust

Old 05-17-2018, 08:13 AM
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Default Salary question for the THT braintrust

I`m asking this question for a friend of mine because, well, I didn`t have an answer. So I figured the THT brain trust would have the answer I can bring back to my friend. The question that was presented to me was this :

Since when does going from a hourly rate and being paid for those hours to a salary rate and then having to work unlimited hours for basically the same pay? There are no other benefits included according to my friend, just a guaranteed pay check. I said you pretty much just answered your own question.
I`ve had several salary jobs over the years and I never questioned it. I`ve had salary jobs in the restaurant business for 20 years working from 7am to 2 am what seemed like all the time. But he does bring up a good point. Why does a salary paying job constitute having to working extended hours over and above what you would normally work at an hourly job? I know every job is different and they all have different perks to reflect the salary, but apparently this is not the case. Unfortunately, my friend does not want to disclose what he is being paid.
So what response would the THT brain trust have for an answer?
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:24 AM
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It depends. Are you saying that the salary = the old base pay before overtime? That does not make sense.

Generally, salary can benefit both the employer and the employee. The employer can budget more easily and can essentially control who makes what. A marginal employee working a lot of overtime my be less efficient than, say, a similar employee accomplishing much more without the overtime.

For the employee, the initial year or years of conversion can leave some disparity but over time that disparity should go away. More productive employees are theoretically paid more that less productive. bigger raises, better job opportunities, etc.. Bonus plans may also come into play longer term theoretically rewarding performers even more. Often times more work magically gets done in less time.

This is how it works in the professional fields generally. Neither is perfect.
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:24 AM
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Being a salary employee does not mean you are required to work an unlimited amount of hours. You are being paid a set price for a full time position and also being included (Generally) in PTO, sick leave, 401(k), etc. In fact i recall in the news in recent years a number of lawsuits to receive overtime for salaried employees.

Does this mean that i would start billing my company for an extra hour here or there? No, but i also wouldn't be putting in 100 hours/week.
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:29 AM
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Typically a salary position comes with a bonus based on performance metrics (both company and personal), where as hourly is typically void of bonus potential.

Also salary guarantees you a paycheck, where as in hourly OT and hours can be cut.
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by catfever24 View Post
I`m asking this question for a friend of mine because, well, I didn`t have an answer. So I figured the THT brain trust would have the answer I can bring back to my friend. The question that was presented to me was this :

Since when does going from a hourly rate and being paid for those hours to a salary rate and then having to work unlimited hours for basically the same pay? There are no other benefits included according to my friend, just a guaranteed pay check. I said you pretty much just answered your own question.
I`ve had several salary jobs over the years and I never questioned it. I`ve had salary jobs in the restaurant business for 20 years working from 7am to 2 am what seemed like all the time. But he does bring up a good point. Why does a salary paying job constitute having to working extended hours over and above what you would normally work at an hourly job? I know every job is different and they all have different perks to reflect the salary, but apparently this is not the case. Unfortunately, my friend does not want to disclose what he is being paid.
So what response would the THT brain trust have for an answer?
When your position qualifies you be an exempt (FLSA) employee and the employer decides to pay you a salary instead of hourly.
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:34 AM
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A company cannot move someone from hourly with overtime to salary, not pay overtime, and not have any management responsibilities. In fact, just because someone is salary does not mean they don't qualify for overtime. They have to be "exempt", vs. "non-exempt". If a company moves someone from an hourly position to an exempt salaried position, without any management responsibilities, and doesn't pay overtime for overtime worked, they're in big trouble with the governmental agencies.

https://www.flsa.com/coverage.html
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by catfever24 View Post
I`m asking this question for a friend of mine because, well, I didn`t have an answer. So I figured the THT brain trust would have the answer I can bring back to my friend. The question that was presented to me was this :

Since when does going from a hourly rate and being paid for those hours to a salary rate and then having to work unlimited hours for basically the same pay? There are no other benefits included according to my friend, just a guaranteed pay check. I said you pretty much just answered your own question.
I`ve had several salary jobs over the years and I never questioned it. I`ve had salary jobs in the restaurant business for 20 years working from 7am to 2 am what seemed like all the time. But he does bring up a good point. Why does a salary paying job constitute having to working extended hours over and above what you would normally work at an hourly job? I know every job is different and they all have different perks to reflect the salary, but apparently this is not the case. Unfortunately, my friend does not want to disclose what he is being paid.
So what response would the THT brain trust have for an answer?
It doesn't matter what the employee, or the THT braintrust says. He/She is a free will employee. He is free to leave any time for other work, and the company is free to terminate his position any time and hire someone else. (Unless this is a government position with a bargaining unit agreement)

A salaried position usually means a position where the output and "product" of the employee is not defined by a 40hr period. In many cases the employee may have to stay late, and do extra work because that's when the work is. (Meeting clients, serving clients, dealing with shipping and implementation etc) A salaried employee doesn't necessarily punch in at 8am and vacate at 5pm. Maybe even, the boss doesn't care if the employee leaves at 2pm so long as all the work is done, and productivity is increasing.

An hourly position only values the output and product of the employee during the hr's required. Let's not forget, many many hourly employees are not productive all 40 hrs each week. Yet they are compensated whether work comes in or any work get's done. I saw lots and lots of federal employee's playing out the clock each day. Why? Because they had no concern for their productivity. That was the problem of "Management." On the other hand, there were many valuable hourly employees that were very productive and their hourly rate undervalued their contribution to the employer.

So it really depends on the employee's attitude whether they see the job as owing them, or them contributing to the job. Either way, good bosses know the productivity and value of their salaried (and also hourly) employee's. They are always looking for value. And they know who the clock watchers are. If they don't they are not good bosses and your buddy should look elsewhere if that's his type of boss.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by rickboat View Post
A company cannot move someone from hourly with overtime to salary, not pay overtime, and not have any management responsibilities. In fact, just because someone is salary does not mean they don't qualify for overtime. They have to be "exempt", vs. "non-exempt". If a company moves someone from an hourly position to an exempt salaried position, without any management responsibilities, and doesn't pay overtime for overtime worked, they're in big trouble with the governmental agencies.

https://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

This (and the post immediately above it) is correct.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:08 AM
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I have worked salary and hourly jobs but without knowing what your friend does, it might be hard to explain. I work in commercial construction and am salaried but this is my spin on your question and that's flexibility.
Yes, I sometimes have to work over 40 hours and not get paid for it but I often times don't have to work 40 hours and still get paid. In addition, if I need to leave early or take the morning or afternoon off or even the full day, I can do that and not get penalized. My boss has a standing rule and I have the same rule for my staff: I don't care when you are here as long as you get your work done and I don't have to ask you for it.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jersus View Post
Typically a salary position comes with a bonus based on performance metrics (both company and personal), where as hourly is typically void of bonus potential.

Also salary guarantees you a paycheck, where as in hourly OT and hours can be cut.
Typical but not always true.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:33 AM
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All great responses. I`ll copy this thread and send it to my friend.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:47 AM
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Salaried jobs tend to provide more flexibility. Yes, sometimes it means more hours, but that often works both ways. If this particular job turns out to be one-sided, your friend can, and possibly should, ply his trade elsewhere.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:40 AM
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FLSA is all your friend needs to know. Mr. Rickboat provided the link.
His job duties define the standard, not his boss.
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:38 PM
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I'm an engineer. Worked salaried for years. Work by the hour now as a consultant. Hourly doesn't get abused - I prefer it.

As someone good at what I do and self motivated I worked too much as a salaried guy. Consulting I bill the hours worked and walk away.

YMMV.
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by rickboat View Post
A company cannot move someone from hourly with overtime to salary, not pay overtime, and not have any management responsibilities. In fact, just because someone is salary does not mean they don't qualify for overtime. They have to be "exempt", vs. "non-exempt". If a company moves someone from an hourly position to an exempt salaried position, without any management responsibilities, and doesn't pay overtime for overtime worked, they're in big trouble with the governmental agencies.

https://www.flsa.com/coverage.html
Nailed it.
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:40 PM
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all depends on the job details
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dssmith View Post
It doesn't matter what the employee, or the THT braintrust says. He/She is a free will employee. He is free to leave any time for other work, and the company is free to terminate his position any time and hire someone else. (Unless this is a government position with a bargaining unit agreement)

A salaried position usually means a position where the output and "product" of the employee is not defined by a 40hr period. In many cases the employee may have to stay late, and do extra work because that's when the work is. (Meeting clients, serving clients, dealing with shipping and implementation etc) A salaried employee doesn't necessarily punch in at 8am and vacate at 5pm. Maybe even, the boss doesn't care if the employee leaves at 2pm so long as all the work is done, and productivity is increasing.

An hourly position only values the output and product of the employee during the hr's required. Let's not forget, many many hourly employees are not productive all 40 hrs each week. Yet they are compensated whether work comes in or any work get's done. I saw lots and lots of federal employee's playing out the clock each day. Why? Because they had no concern for their productivity. That was the problem of "Management." On the other hand, there were many valuable hourly employees that were very productive and their hourly rate undervalued their contribution to the employer.

So it really depends on the employee's attitude whether they see the job as owing them, or them contributing to the job. Either way, good bosses know the productivity and value of their salaried (and also hourly) employee's. They are always looking for value. And they know who the clock watchers are. If they don't they are not good bosses and your buddy should look elsewhere if that's his type of boss.
While this sounds good to a fair number of people, right to work never trumps flsa. Damn pesky facts.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:36 PM
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Don't ask here even though you got some decent advice.

The wage and hour board in you state/federal will tell you. The IRS will tell you again if they hook up with you.

You better know exactly how to comp and the requirements to meet salary/vs hourly wage. They are complicated.

The defense is expensive and if one single employee blows the whistle your gonna be in a world of shit.

You F with wage and hour the IRS will be so far up your ass they will see your lungs..

Lot's of particulars of how you designate hourly salary and your payment to the employee. Many rules and if your wrong on any the IRS collects money on employee earned income. Comp time and such are the best chum in the world to bring them into the slick. Of all things the IRS wants earned income shown not bartered. It can be legal in some ways but highly illegal in others. You best know and meet the criteria.
That's all I got to say about that
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rickboat View Post
A company cannot move someone from hourly with overtime to salary, not pay overtime, and not have any management responsibilities. In fact, just because someone is salary does not mean they don't qualify for overtime. They have to be "exempt", vs. "non-exempt". If a company moves someone from an hourly position to an exempt salaried position, without any management responsibilities, and doesn't pay overtime for overtime worked, they're in big trouble with the governmental agencies.

https://www.flsa.com/coverage.html
Nailed it
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by txj33p View Post


While this sounds good to a fair number of people, right to work never trumps flsa. Damn pesky facts.
1. Where did I ever say what you cite?
2. I've seen nowhere in any of the comments the mention of "right to work."
3. Here's exemptions to FLSA copied and pasted from their own website:

Who qualifies for exemption from minimum wage and overtime pay?

In order for an exemption to apply, an employee's specific job duties and salary must meet all the requirements of the Department of Labor's regulations. Section 13(a)(1) of the FLSA provides an exemption from both minimum wage and overtime pay for employees employed as bona fide executive, administrative, professional, computer and outside sales employees.
4. Pesky facts exempt many positions from minimum wage and overtime.

My comments were of the most generic nature, to attempt to frame an answer to a very generic original post. I never implied otherwise.
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