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Suspended with pay. Why not suspend without pay?

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Suspended with pay. Why not suspend without pay?

Old 05-04-2018, 08:03 AM
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Default Suspended with pay. Why not suspend without pay?

How long should this take to investigate?
Video Shows Miami Cop Kicking Man in Head | Miami New Times
Old 05-04-2018, 08:06 AM
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Yeah, no excuse for that in this day and age where everyone especially police should know they are being recorded. He just created a huge liability for his department financially and safety wise. I would assume there is a policy that removes descration in terms of pay being suspended until an investigation is complete. I would bet the police union would have something to do with that.
Old 05-04-2018, 08:10 AM
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Unions...it's all about the unions. One of my customers had a situation where a UPS driver didn't show up to deliver an item to an industrial facility that was flown in for Saturday delivery. When confronted, he said he drove up to the front gate and saw it was closed(it always is closed and has a manned guard shack)...instead of asking the guard, he did a u-turn in the driveway and took off. Security footage shows the whole thing...the driver's supervisor said nothing will happen to the driver because of the union.
Old 05-04-2018, 08:12 AM
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wtf? I thought I was watching a WWE show.
Old 05-04-2018, 08:15 AM
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maybe the bad cops won't be so eager to shoot a man just standing on his porch from 100 feet away if they new they will not get a paid vacation.
Old 05-04-2018, 08:16 AM
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because of the mess it would make in cases where they suspend without pay and they arent guilty. Obviously this one he is but its better to pay now then have to deal with a lawsuit settlement that comes with suspension without pay.

Or they could do like any normal business does, fire his ass and don't pay him. If I screw up or there is any hint to a screw up I can get canned with no due process.
Old 05-04-2018, 08:24 AM
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Doesn’t NYC have a entire office filled with suspended with pay teachers (in the hundreds) that go in every day and hang out. They can’t teach a classroom
but can’t be fired.

My lumber companies drivers are union. One day I drove up to my site and found a driver with a Moffet filled with lumber sitting there. Got out of my car and he yelled “next time you make me wait two hours you better bring me a F$&? Cup of coffee”.

There was a 1/2 full plastic trash can blocking part of the gate and union rules prohibit him from leaving the drivers seat once it’s started. So he sat there till somebody showed up.
Old 05-04-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolakrab View Post
Unions...it's all about the unions. One of my customers had a situation where a UPS driver didn't show up to deliver an item to an industrial facility that was flown in for Saturday delivery. When confronted, he said he drove up to the front gate and saw it was closed(it always is closed and has a manned guard shack)...instead of asking the guard, he did a u-turn in the driveway and took off. Security footage shows the whole thing...the driver's supervisor said nothing will happen to the driver because of the union.
And reality is the supervisor was too goddamn lazy to do anything. Union won't protect you from dereliction of duty. Your customer is clearly not an important customer to them.
Old 05-04-2018, 08:53 AM
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This one won't take long. It's a standardized process. That way, no one can say they were treated differently. It's not fair to officers who were justified in using force to lose their pay during an investigation. That means guys like this get the same treatment. It's cheaper to have the procedure than fight the inevitable discrimination lawsuits if you treated cases differently. Like I said though, this one won't take long.
Old 05-04-2018, 09:12 AM
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To me it sounds like innocent until PROVEN guilty might well be the reason for him being suspended with pay.
Old 05-04-2018, 09:15 AM
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They claim they will actually have the ability to fire people in the VA now. It's called accountability. Hope it's true and spreads to all gov employees. Yeah right.
Old 05-04-2018, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Beuford T. Justice View Post
To me it sounds like innocent until PROVEN guilty might well be the reason for him being suspended with pay.
In a court of law, sure. This is employment. Kicking a complaint and restrained man in the head is against every police policy I know of. It's against ours. He will be fired shortly and he should be. If you have that little control of your adrenaline and emotions, you need a different job.
Old 05-04-2018, 09:48 AM
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I understand the whole idea behind presumption of innocence. However, when you have a clear video of the incident, it seems like there should be be some interim adjudication in this kind of case. Like a judge reviewing the evidence and delivering a preliminary judgement.

But the lead is buried. Why was this officer not arrested for assault? If I was seen (and recorded) kicking someone in the head, you-damn-skippy I'd be arrested.
Old 05-04-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bjm9818 View Post
Doesn’t NYC have a entire office filled with suspended with pay teachers (in the hundreds) that go in every day and hang out. They can’t teach a classroom
but can’t be fired.
.
Correct.They call it the rubber room. The requirements to fire a tenured New York City teacher are very onerous and difficult to get done.
Old 05-04-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bobeast View Post
I understand the whole idea behind presumption of innocence. However, when you have a clear video of the incident, it seems like there should be be some interim adjudication in this kind of case. Like a judge reviewing the evidence and delivering a preliminary judgement.

But the lead is buried. Why was this officer not arrested for assault? If I was seen (and recorded) kicking someone in the head, you-damn-skippy I'd be arrested.
That may well happen before the dust settles.
Old 05-04-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bobeast View Post
I understand the whole idea behind presumption of innocence. However, when you have a clear video of the incident, it seems like there should be be some interim adjudication in this kind of case. Like a judge reviewing the evidence and delivering a preliminary judgement.

But the lead is buried. Why was this officer not arrested for assault? If I was seen (and recorded) kicking someone in the head, you-damn-skippy I'd be arrested.
I'm not sure what you mean by a preliminary judgement, If we are talking about judicial punishment, he has a right to a speedy and public trial by jury. The state can't punish a person without due process of law.

As far as an arrest, it appears the PD handed off the evidence and investigation to the State attorney's office for impartial investigation. You won't have an answer on charges until their investigation is done. Once someone is arrested, the speedy trial clock starts. The State Attorneys like to have their case ready and done (evidence, interviews, etc.) before that happens.
Old 05-04-2018, 10:12 AM
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bc of collective bargaining agreement
Old 05-04-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Muddyrubberduck View Post
In a court of law, sure. This is employment. Kicking a complaint and restrained man in the head is against every police policy I know of. It's against ours. He will be fired shortly and he should be. If you have that little control of your adrenaline and emotions, you need a different job.
thank you, your last sentence is spot on.
Old 05-04-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by blue33 View Post
bc of collective bargaining agreement
Which is based on Civil law practices, not Criminal.
Old 05-04-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SeaJay View Post
Correct.They call it the rubber room. The requirements to fire a tenured New York City teacher are very onerous and difficult to get done.
Who do the arbitrators report to? DOE or the Union?

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