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Swivel invention-where to start

Old 02-06-2018, 06:38 PM
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Default Swivel invention-where to start

After spending 10 years in the tournament and offshore fishing community, I have an idea in my head about a fishing swivel that doesn't exist that I know for certain would be a huge hit, that I have also discussed with another very experienced mate who agrees.

Now (dont laugh) I watch some shark tank and I see them talk about licensing products/patents and not even trying to mess with the production and retail side of things. Which obviously would be the route to go in a case like this as I have no intention of making them in my basement or getting into manufacturing. Simply (exaggeration) sell the protected concept to the big guns who already control the market, and get some sort of cut.

Where would I even start with trying to produce a prototype in a way?
In my head I am thinking cut apart some existing swivels and put my idea/spin on them (no pun intended) To have a physical sample of what I am trying to accomplish?

Or do I sit down with an engineer/design person to put my thoughts to paper and trouble shoot the logistics?

How would I be able to get enough "samples" produced to be able to test/develop/redesign as needed without getting the idea stolen?

Friend at work's brother in law is a very successful patent attorney so I do have that resource when the time becomes appropriate to cross that bridge...

Last edited by slickcav; 02-06-2018 at 06:44 PM.
Old 02-06-2018, 06:40 PM
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best of luck and hope its a success !
Old 02-06-2018, 06:48 PM
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start out large enough that you can make it by hand, then work out the kinks ,and reduce the item to the size you want
Old 02-06-2018, 07:25 PM
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Pic?
Old 02-06-2018, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by slickcav View Post
After spending 10 years in the tournament and offshore fishing community, I have an idea in my head about a fishing swivel that doesn't exist that I know for certain would be a huge hit, that I have also discussed with another very experienced mate who agrees.

Now (dont laugh) I watch some shark tank and I see them talk about licensing products/patents and not even trying to mess with the production and retail side of things. Which obviously would be the route to go in a case like this as I have no intention of making them in my basement or getting into manufacturing. Simply (exaggeration) sell the protected concept to the big guns who already control the market, and get some sort of cut.

Where would I even start with trying to produce a prototype in a way?
In my head I am thinking cut apart some existing swivels and put my idea/spin on them (no pun intended) To have a physical sample of what I am trying to accomplish?

Or do I sit down with an engineer/design person to put my thoughts to paper and trouble shoot the logistics?

How would I be able to get enough "samples" produced to be able to test/develop/redesign as needed without getting the idea stolen?

Friend at work's brother in law is a very successful patent attorney so I do have that resource when the time becomes appropriate to cross that bridge...

We have a patent attorney right here on THT that goes by the screen name Billable Hours. I would send him a PM. You can easily apply for a provisional patent that gives you one year to develop and maybe even sell your idea/product. Its about $125 to apply and you can do it yourself with some drawings and description.
Then give me a shot at selling them
Old 02-07-2018, 05:16 AM
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I see a couple of routes - build your prototype or start by designing the parts in CAD. Many CAD programs can simulate movement, check for fit issues, etc. Some can even do FEA to test for areas of weakness. If you don't know CAD there are people out there that do and work on a contract type basis. If you need outside help, get a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) signed before anything else. Make sure it spells out he basics of the work involved. An attorney isn't absolutely necessary for an NDA but might be warranted to make sure you are protected.
Old 02-07-2018, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Demeanor View Post
... You can easily apply for a provisional patent that gives you one year to develop and maybe even sell your idea/product. Its about $125 to apply and you can do it yourself with some drawings and description.
Then give me a shot at selling them
I believe it's a provisional patent application with 'provisional' modifying 'application' and not 'patent.' So there is no 'provisional patent.' And once submitted the clock starts ticking and you have one year to submit a patent application. This is the real method of protecting an idea; the tale of mailing the description to yourself is a fallacy.

You asked for the first thing to do: Search existing patents and understand what's already protected. Chances are the idea already exists. And expand your search; I believe that if the invention is already protected for crane hooks (for example) then applying it to fishing tackle probably doesn't meet the non-obvious standard.

"an invention shall be considered as involving an inventive step if, having regard to the state of the art, it is not obvious to a person skilled in the art"
Old 02-07-2018, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by drkptt View Post
I believe it's a provisional patent application with 'provisional' modifying 'application' and not 'patent.' So there is no 'provisional patent.' And once submitted the clock starts ticking and you have one year to submit a patent application. This is the real method of protecting an idea; the tale of mailing the description to yourself is a fallacy.

You asked for the first thing to do: Search existing patents and understand what's already protected. Chances are the idea already exists. And expand your search; I believe that if the invention is already protected for crane hooks (for example) then applying it to fishing tackle probably doesn't meet the non-obvious standard.

"an invention shall be considered as involving an inventive step if, having regard to the state of the art, it is not obvious to a person skilled in the art"
This, I thought I had a new idea about a chart viewer that would allow the storage of multiple charts on a continuous pair of rollers. In a small boat it is pretty tough to unfold and view a chart underway.

Patent search turned up a very old patented device used on small planes that was similar enough the patent attorney basically said don't spend the money to persue. Of course then plotters and gps became cheap enough that charts became almost obsolete.

Good luck though.
Old 02-07-2018, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Demeanor View Post
We have a patent attorney right here on THT that goes by the screen name Billable Hours. I would send him a PM. You can easily apply for a provisional patent that gives you one year to develop and maybe even sell your idea/product. Its about $125 to apply and you can do it yourself with some drawings and description.
Then give me a shot at selling them
Do this before you do anything else.

If it's not part of the application process, have him do a prior art search to make sure you aren't wasting time with your patent.

Good luck!
Old 02-07-2018, 05:53 AM
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Reinventing the big game swivel?? Hmmmmm..I didnt think any more designs could possibly be conjured up.
Best of luck
Old 02-07-2018, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by floridian View Post
Reinventing the big game swivel?? Hmmmmm..I didnt think any more designs could possibly be conjured up.
Best of luck
Not reinventing. Taking two methods of and putting them into one

Last edited by slickcav; 02-07-2018 at 11:13 AM.
Old 02-07-2018, 06:55 AM
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Best bet is to seek a patent on your own before showing your design to the thieves out there.If you are sure it will sell and is unique,bet on yourself and contact a patent specialist for direction (I happen to know one that could guide you).
Old 02-07-2018, 06:57 AM
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Sounds like you need a mechanical engineer who also knows boats and fishing, and has a CAD license.









Old 02-07-2018, 06:58 AM
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Funny you mentioned Shark Tank. Based on a recent experience, Shark Tank will contact businesses they see as successful in order to offer them the opportunity.

You'll need to have established manufacturing, marketing, customer base. They are not going to throw $$$ at you on something that is not out in the market. They will ask you about profits, costs, revenue.

My cousin recently opened up a retail business in Miami, and it's been a success. Shark Tank called her the other day to see if she would be interested in talking to them and presenting her business.
Old 02-07-2018, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by slickcav View Post
Not reinventing. Taking two methods of fishing and putting them into one
Stop talking about your idea.

Now.

Talk to an IP attorney.
Old 02-07-2018, 07:10 AM
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No affiliation, but passing this along - these folks are selling a new take on offshore swivels / quick lure disconnect:

http://www.taylor-offshore.com
Old 02-07-2018, 07:11 AM
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If you really want to make a go at it get the patent and then....

3d design program and have the item 3d printed. If you have the concept drawn up on paper and have dimensions it wouldn't cost much to have the thing prototyped in this manner. Even if you made it to a larger scale it could be helpful when pitching the idea to prospective buyers.

There are actually some VERY strong 3d print filaments that could make a very durable demo piece.
Old 02-07-2018, 07:12 AM
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Shark tank is going to say they see the product as a really "niche" market and is too small of an investment for any real return to them. Seems like they go after the "large consumable" market. Not a one and done..
Old 02-07-2018, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by NCSUboater View Post
Sounds like you need a mechanical engineer who also knows boats and fishing, and has a CAD license.


Nope.... he needs a mechanical engineer with a CAD license who knows nothing about fishing.....

...... wouldn't want you using your fishing knowledge to improve his design beyond the scope of his patent/NDA
Old 02-07-2018, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 3.5_rings View Post
No affiliation, but passing this along - these folks are selling a new take on offshore swivels / quick lure disconnect:

http://www.taylor-offshore.com
Thats cool, and Im sure its solid, but Im not going to trust a quick connect swivel. Just cant do it. Only 1 piece, hardwired non opening swivels when Marlin fishing.

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