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Nursing homes drugging dementia patients

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Nursing homes drugging dementia patients

Old 02-05-2018, 05:45 AM
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Default Nursing homes drugging dementia patients

If this is true. Wow.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/02/05/...trol-residents
Old 02-05-2018, 05:55 AM
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My Mom was a nurse in a nursing home....I've spent thousands of hours in a nursing home and with residents.
My Gram was in one 2 years ago till she passed at 92.
She was there for 4-5 years.
I've seen alot...and can tell you...if they got to give someone a special "dose"... have at it
Old 02-05-2018, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Lprizman View Post
My Mom was a nurse in a nursing home....I've spent thousands of hours in a nursing home and with residents.
My Gram was in one 2 years ago till she passed at 92.
She was there for 4-5 years.
I've seen alot...and can tell you...if they got to give someone a special "dose"... have at it
I can agree with this. Aging and the associated problems is not graceful. It's effects and impact on the patients and families are devastating.

When my dad was in hospice and I knew the end was near, I asked if there was anyway the morphine drip could be increased. I don't know if anything was done , increased or changed but it didn't take long afterwards.

It's all heartbreaking.

Last edited by round2it; 02-05-2018 at 08:25 AM.
Old 02-05-2018, 06:09 AM
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I often visit my local veteran's home with my therapy dog. I always make it a point to take her through the three Alzheimer's ward. Many are alert, awake etc. I'd say about half are sleeping and this is like mid morning. Some are in their rooms, some are in the central group area. I asked once why so many seemed to be out of it/sleeping etc and was told that they were in advanced stages where they are like babies , often curling up in a fetal position.
I can't say if they are being drugged or not, although I have seen a lot being given meds but I have no idea if they are anti pyschotic drugs or not. I just know it's not a good way to go.
Old 02-05-2018, 06:25 AM
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I suspect this article is shedding light on a long-established practice. If nursing home staffs were dramatically increased to cope with the growing number of dementia patients without drugging them, people might not be able to afford nursing homes. What to do?

Last edited by yarcraft91; 02-05-2018 at 06:53 AM.
Old 02-05-2018, 06:37 AM
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My wife is an RN at a large nursing home. She nor her co-workers can not give out any type of medication with out doctors orders.
Old 02-05-2018, 06:39 AM
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If you've never had to deal with someone with full on dementia you really can't say what is right or wrong.

I watched a little old grandma type who would bake you cookies when visiting repeatedly beat the hell out of my grandfather with a cane (he was mentally sound but physically limited). This lead to getting them in a nursing home where they had staff who had to stop her often. The amount of violence that can come with dementia is astounding......and 30 seconds after it is over they truely have no idea what they had just done. Eventually she got bad enough that the violent episodes stopped.
Old 02-05-2018, 06:48 AM
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Tore me apart visiting my grandmother in her assisted living facility. Everyone looked like zombies just waiting to go. Sad sight. Wheel chairs in front of a turned off tv, etc. Without their medicine they are worse, they throw tantrums and get really depressed and say some borderline awful things.
Old 02-05-2018, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by round2it View Post



It's all heartbreaking.

Got that right
Old 02-05-2018, 06:53 AM
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As noted, the staff can't give meds to a patient without doctor's orders. It's up to the family to ensure that a doctor's orders are proper.

We just went through this with a relative for 3 years. Meds were adjusted repeatedly, and we set it so they could not order new meds or adjust dosage without approval by us, that worked most of the time. Because she would get out of control, they had permission to use a shot of anti-anxiety med to basically knock her out and they used it a handful of times per year.

It's not easy. Alzheimer's is a horrible disease.
Old 02-05-2018, 06:53 AM
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I suspect the larger issue here is how we as a society view end of life care.
Old 02-05-2018, 06:55 AM
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Viewing this from the outside this scenario is easily misinterpreted as cruelty or mistreatment or whatever. As someone mentioned above, allowing advanced dementia patients to suffer is far worse than sedating them. Unfortunately, much dementia is fraught with anxiety, fear, agitation and depression rather than a forgetful, old friendly person who just needs a gentle reminder what a fork is used for.

End of life and dementia care is hard on all involved. Blaming docs and nurses isn't the right approach.
Old 02-05-2018, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by t500hps View Post
If you've never had to deal with someone with full on dementia you really can't say what is right or wrong.

I watched a little old grandma type who would bake you cookies when visiting repeatedly beat the hell out of my grandfather with a cane (he was mentally sound but physically limited). This lead to getting them in a nursing home where they had staff who had to stop her often. The amount of violence that can come with dementia is astounding......and 30 seconds after it is over they truely have no idea what they had just done. Eventually she got bad enough that the violent episodes stopped.
My father in law had it, when he started getting violent with the mother in law they had to put him in assisted living / hospice. Had to move him 3 times due to him being violent and attacking other patients or thier visitors. Hurt one elderly lady visitor badly at the second "home" turned out they werent giving him his meds like they should have been.

Its a very sad situation to see good people warehoused like that due to a terrible disease. After going through that I can see how sedation could be necessary.
Old 02-05-2018, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Lorne Greene View Post
I suspect the larger issue here is how we as a society view end of life care.
we have a winner.
Old 02-05-2018, 07:37 AM
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Nobody checked the source of this article????

Human Rights Watch!!!!????

Suppose they have an agenda? And the article is an unsigned editorial.
They "propose" obtaining informed consent from the person. That's what the rules say.

How do you obtain "informed consent" from a demented person.
Their family you say? Where's the family when the person is going bonkers and their behavior is affecting your mother or father?

Scheesch. Talk about Monday Morning QB's.
Old 02-05-2018, 07:43 AM
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My mom had the onset of dementia at 82 any passed away at 87, during those 5 years it was a monumental task to care for her. It stressed a very close family to the breaking point, emotionally and financially. Unless you have been involved with it you cannot imagine it. This is definitely an end of life issue that needs better solutions. Those who care for those with dementia/alzheimers are unheralded heros in my opinion!
Old 02-05-2018, 08:06 AM
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Such a difficult subject. I agree 100% that it is a societal issue. Frankly, we treat our dogs better.

My parents are 86 and 83. Mom was recently diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Not looking forward to the road ahead. They, my sister and I all live in the same area which is helpful.
Old 02-05-2018, 08:10 AM
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My Marilyn was an RN on the vent unit of a larger nusrsing home/company. She also filled in on the other units. Plenty of stories. It's a shame the patients and families have to deal with this, but many are suffering more without the drugs. Not only in a constant state of fear and confusion, but as already mentioned, many are violent. Add to that sexual aggression is also extremely common. Demensia and confusion are misnomers. Their minds are completely falling apart just like any other organ in the body susceptible to age.
Old 02-05-2018, 08:36 AM
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Sure this is a huge problem but this article is a pie in the sky blame game. Nursing homes are at fault and systematically abusing the elderly? That is a rediculous accusation. These are good people and institutions trying hard to take care of our loved ones when we as a family have decided we can’t. We don’t have all the answers and they don’t either but they are trying. This human rights watch ought to open up a nursing home or two and show how it can be done.
Old 02-05-2018, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dssmith View Post
Nobody checked the source of this article????

Human Rights Watch!!!!????

Suppose they have an agenda? And the article is an unsigned editorial.
They "propose" obtaining informed consent from the person. That's what the rules say.

How do you obtain "informed consent" from a demented person.
Their family you say? Where's the family when the person is going bonkers and their behavior is affecting your mother or father?

Scheesch. Talk about Monday Morning QB's.
I glanced through their references in the article - didn't have enough time to read them all as they're long but the references seemed credible.

I'm not going to say they don't have an agenda. Perhaps it is to provide more "human rights" or perhaps it's something else.

But I don't think it's bad to question and make people aware. Whether that means that a nursing home policy changes to get consent ahead of time and explain why they need it, or some other change, I don't think it's a bad thing.

Dementia is horrible. It is rough on everyone from the caretakers to the patient to family.

But if you ask me, I don't want to be sedated waiting out my days. I'd rather take a different route, because I understand that I won't be able to make the choice of what level of sedation is enough without being too much.

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