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Shocker - I don't understand women - Matt Damon comments

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Shocker - I don't understand women - Matt Damon comments

Old 12-18-2017, 10:39 AM
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Default Shocker - I don't understand women - Matt Damon comments

I have been partly following the stories of sexual abuse by celebrity men in the news for the last few months. I get it, men in positions of power used that power to prey on women and it is despicable. I hope they enjoy their time in prison.

Then there are the comments Matt Damon made last week that is causing an uproar. He essentially said he believes there are degrees of sexual harassment. Some men did worse things than others in his opinion and he doesn't think someone who made a pass at someone should be treated the same as a rapist. Groundbreaking position, but yet Mr. Damon is being skewered as tone deaf, insensitive, neanderthal jerk.

The bastion of women rights, Alyssa Milano, had several tweets trying to explain it is all bad and there are no degrees of abuse; women are sick of anything that denigrates them. Now Minnie Driver is joining the fray saying Damon doesn't get it. Weird.

I agree with Matt Damon. I think it is terrible that any man would use his position of power to intimidate, coerce or force himself upon a female. And that telling a female she has a better chance at getting a part in a movie if she goes on a date with him since he is a producer is disgusting, should not be tolerated and made public to shame the man, but is not as bad as an executive luring a female to his hotel room under the guise of discussing a role only to rape her. Our legal system agrees with me and Matt.

I don't understand why women are attacking Matt Damon. We understand the victims are angry and why. Why not have an open dialog and try to educate why rape and catcalling are equally bad in the eyes of these celebrity women? Maybe Minnie Driver is right, I, as a man, just can't understand it so it is not even worth the effort to explain. That should stop the problem.

"I have been a victim of each component of the sexual assault spectrum of which you speak. They all hurt. And they are all connected to a patriarchy intertwined with normalized, accepted--even welcomed-- misogyny." - Alyssa Milano

"We are not outraged because someone grabbed our asses in a picture. We are outraged because we were made to feel this was normal. We are outraged because we have been gaslighted. We are outraged because we were silenced for so long." - Alyssa Milano

"How about: it’s all f****** wrong and it’s all bad, and until you start seeing it under one umbrella it’s not your job to compartmentalise or judge what is worse and what is not. Let women do the speaking up right now. The time right now is for men just to listen and not have an opinion about it for once.” - Minnie Driver

“In the same stereotypical way that we see women being supportive of men in their endeavors. I feel that’s what women need of men in this moment. They need men to lean on and not question. Men can rally and they can support, but I don’t think its appropriate, per se, for men to have an opinion about how women should be metabolising abuse. Ever.” - Minnie driver

Last edited by Locke N Load; 12-18-2017 at 10:44 AM. Reason: To add quotes from the women
Old 12-18-2017, 10:51 AM
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women say men don't get it, I think many men think women don't get it.
Even our courts agree there are differing degrees related to sexual harassment.
Old 12-18-2017, 10:55 AM
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Because most of these women at morons. Not differentiating between rape, assault, an unwanted advance or a catcall is absurd and intellectually dishonest. Its the new women's lib movement. Equal in all respects but for those they find offensive as defined however they wish.


Chris Mathews allegedly made some remarks 20 or so years ago that were taken as being offensive by the woman he made them to. Most accounts suggest the comments were jokes that were in poor taste and not an attempt to move the relationship to a sexual one. She complained, was paid some money and moved on. She was not terminated. It appeared to be a mutual settlement to appease the complainer and to keep CM from having a smear. Commonplace with big names and big money. Now this has turned into another fire storm. Don't like the guy but this is not only getting out of hand but the women are ultimately going to lose out.
Old 12-18-2017, 11:09 AM
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I think Alyssa Milano's point is pretty clear:

We are outraged because we were made to feel this was normal.
So while the circumstances may be different, it's the normalizing of the behavior that does the most damage.*

*At least, that's my interpretation of what she was saying.
Old 12-18-2017, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Rags View Post
women say men don't get it, I think many men think women don't get it.
Even our courts agree there are differing degrees related to sexual harassment.
And women will say that most judges are men!

I say, if the roles were reversed what would women in power do? I've been felt up by a female boss, I just didn't moan about it.
Old 12-18-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Knoxes View Post
I think Alyssa Milano's point is pretty clear:



So while the circumstances may be different, it's the normalizing of the behavior that does the most damage.*

*At least, that's my interpretation of what she was saying.
Which I totally agree with. No where does Matt Damon say any of it is right. Just that some is worse than other and a joking around picture taking of grabbing boobs is in bad taste, but is in no way equal to a woman being raped. I wonder how the victims who were raped feel about Alyssa and Minnie's position? Fake groping feels just as bad?

Why not agree with Matt saying it is all wrong and needs to be purged while not trivializing the severity of some victims' experiences compared to others?
Old 12-18-2017, 11:25 AM
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They are enraged because they went along. The casting couch was and is the norm in that industry. It has been for ever. Everyone has known about it, but now a few have decided to follow the money and blame the system they decided to be part of. Now the bright lights are shining on the whole stage.

Oops, I cannot find any place to hide. If there is no one to blame, at least part of problem may be me!

None of the casting couch world has ever been right or any kind of secret.

Weinstien will return and all the same people will bow at his reincarnation. Because he is one of them.
Old 12-18-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Locke N Load View Post
"How about: it’s all f****** wrong and it’s all bad, and until you start seeing it under one umbrella it’s not your job to compartmentalise or judge what is worse and what is not. Let women do the speaking up right now. The time right now is for men just to listen and not have an opinion about it for once.” - Minnie Driver
And there is it. Sometimes women just want men to listen to them without answering back. Nothing new there.
Old 12-18-2017, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Locke N Load View Post
Which I totally agree with. No where does Matt Damon say any of it is right. Just that some is worse than other and a joking around picture taking of grabbing boobs is in bad taste, but is in no way equal to a woman being raped. I wonder how the victims who were raped feel about Alyssa and Minnie's position? Fake groping feels just as bad?

Why not agree with Matt saying it is all wrong and needs to be purged while not trivializing the severity of some victims' experiences compared to others?
Yeah, at the risk of putting words in their mouths, I think what they're saying is that men, Matt Damon, and you (and me) claim there is a spectrum of offense. So "bad taste" means that it's mostly bad, but it's a little bit ok, too, right? I mean, c'mon, it's just guys being guys, right?

So, AM and MD are saying that's the patriarchy deciding what's ok to do and what isn't. And it's not our place to decide what is acceptable for women to experience. And expecting women to accept (and normalize) how we've defined and labeled behavior is the real offense.
Old 12-18-2017, 11:38 AM
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The real difference is: Was the person harmed, or did they just "feel bad". Mental trauma with rape is a real thing, but much different that someone, somewhere, saying something you didn't like and made you "feel bad". Get over it. THAT would be equality.

What I'd REALLY like to see right now, especially in the Hollywood circles, is for some of these guys to speak out about which women DID accept 'advances' in consideration for parts. It's probably widespread if rumors have any basis at all.
Old 12-18-2017, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BACKTOTHESEA View Post
Because most of these women are morons. Not differentiating between rape, assault, an unwanted advance or a catcall is absurd and intellectually dishonest. Its the new women's lib movement. Equal in all respects but for those they find offensive as defined however they wish.
BINGO. As much as I think Matt Damon is a toolbag he is right in this case.
Old 12-18-2017, 12:34 PM
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I thought you were talking about THE shocker
Old 12-18-2017, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Knoxes View Post
Yeah, at the risk of putting words in their mouths, I think what they're saying is that men, Matt Damon, and you (and me) claim there is a spectrum of offense. So "bad taste" means that it's mostly bad, but it's a little bit ok, too, right? I mean, c'mon, it's just guys being guys, right?

So, AM and MD are saying that's the patriarchy deciding what's ok to do and what isn't. And it's not our place to decide what is acceptable for women to experience. And expecting women to accept (and normalize) how we've defined and labeled behavior is the real offense.
I agree with you. And I think they are going about it all wrong. It's not just women who are victims. Terry Crews? Being divisive and "Just give me a shoulder to cry on." is not helping anything. In my opinion of course. Just makes me mad to see Damon getting knocked publicly for voicing an opinion. No need to say he is irrelevant.
Old 12-18-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wezie View Post
They are enraged because they went along. The casting couch was and is the norm in that industry. It has been for ever. Everyone has known about it, but now a few have decided to follow the money and blame the system they decided to be part of. Now the bright lights are shining on the whole stage.

Oops, I cannot find any place to hide. If there is no one to blame, at least part of problem may be me!

None of the casting couch world has ever been right or any kind of secret.

Weinstien will return and all the same people will bow at his reincarnation. Because he is one of them.
No way this guy gets back in. They are making him the example. You think any woman in Hollywood would ever work for him again?
Old 12-18-2017, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Knoxes View Post
I think Alyssa Milano's point is pretty clear:

So while the circumstances may be different, it's the normalizing of the behavior that does the most damage.*

*At least, that's my interpretation of what she was saying.
Reads like someone wearing a low cut blouse with their boobs hanging out and complaining because someone looked. It's not one size fits all in harassment.
Old 12-18-2017, 01:29 PM
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The unintended consequences of statements like Alyssa Milano, is she is saying if you are going to tell a woman, "Your butt looks great in that dress" you might as well rape her, because they are the same thing.

IMO its like any crime, shop lifting is different then grand theft auto, which is different then murder.
Old 12-18-2017, 01:37 PM
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I can tell you exactly why his comments aren't being tolerated:

If they don't turn the "real problem" into some arcane concept like gaslighting or epistemological aggression, then there's no way to make every woman into the victim and every man into the perpetrator.


If they actually start treating individual events as individual events, then the only victims are people who were actually victimized, and the only people who are responsible for it are the people who harassed/assaulted/raped them, and potentially others who were in the loop and acted as accessories. But the goal here isn't to find individual people at fault for their actual criminal behaviour, it's to cast this as a symptom of a grand patriarchal conspiracy for which the only solution is for men always to just shut up and do exactly what they're told.
Old 12-18-2017, 01:39 PM
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There's a ton of women out there who volunteered for a spot on the casting couch to further their career. It was OK with them 10-30 years ago when they wanted to use their looks and bodies to become rich and famous, but now, all of a sudden, it's not OK.

Lot of people lookin' for a "payday"!
Old 12-18-2017, 01:46 PM
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It is because the whole world has turned into Junior High School with twitter, facebook and media sites willing to report whatever they hear.

There are very serious problems in the world with women being subjected to sexual assault, especially by those in power. But when everyone yaps about it, the real message gets blurred. People should act like ladies and gentlemen.
Old 12-18-2017, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by yarcraft91 View Post
And there is it. Sometimes women just want men to listen to them without answering back. Nothing new there.
No win situation. If no man said anything then the cries from the women would be, "Where are the upstanding men decrying these actions of pigs?" "Why aren't any men standing up for us women?" "Are they condoning the actions of the pigs?" Ugh

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