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Coming to Terms..........

Old 09-19-2017, 05:13 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by jj1987 View Post
No gun ever told someone to kill a person because they didn't worship the gun. In fact, the owners manual of guns specifically explain how to be safe with them and not hurt anyone.

Now let's compare that to the book that comes with religion.

1 Samuel 15:3


The Bible - especially the New Testament - has many verses about God's love and forgiveness, but people always manage to cherry-pick individual verses that justify their own beliefs and actions. Believe and act as you choose, but be ready for the consequences.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:15 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by JUST GOT RIVERRED View Post

Here's what really gets me though, the atheists fighting constantly to have God and religion erased from society. Let's just say for a sec there is no God, well would it really be such a bad thing if everyone just tried to do right by one another ( what I believe religion is in its simplest form ). Would it be so terrible if we all just tried to be nice ? They could believe or not believe whatever they want and leave everyone else alone for that matter.

As someone else said, why not hedge your bets? If there is a God I damn sure don't want to live in hell for eternity and if there isn't would it be so bad just living your life as a decent person at the least????
Why live a lie?
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:26 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by DrDanH View Post
The Bible - especially the New Testament - has many verses about God's love and forgiveness, but people always manage to cherry-pick individual verses that justify their own beliefs and actions. Believe and act as you choose, but be ready for the consequences.
Oh trust me, I was forced to read the entire bible as a kid, go to bible camp each summer, participate in bible trivia competitions around the South East, etc.

I heard an interesting point of view. ISIS is clearly evil. They want to destroy anyone who doesn't follow their belief model. The Christian god won't destroy you, instead he throws you in a near death situation, burning for eternity without the mercy of dying. In a sick way, ISIS is more compassionate as they only torture you a set duration vs eternity. Remember that a sin can be as little as lusting for someone you're not married to. Every wife and girlfriend post on here where someone posts "I'd hit it" they're possibly going to hell. I don't understand how you can call that a loving God. Care to tackle that question?

Originally Posted by N2theblue View Post
90% of Christians I know are judgemental hypocrites so no I am not going to choose to join that club. Shoot, look how many people on this thread who claim to be Christian have previously expressed misogynistic, racist, anti immigrant, anti poor people opinions. How many of you claimed to be "deplorable". How many of you use your religion to justify those attitudes and justify your discrimination.

Y'all can have it. I don't need a book or a preacher to know what the right thing to do is and how people should be treated.
I've heard more racist jokes listening to the adults talk after church than anywhere else in my life.

Remember though, entire books were written on how the bible supports slavery.
http://docsouth.unc.edu/imls/warren/menu.html
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:28 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by BlueRudy View Post
I'm not what you could call a religious man but I do think I have faith.... I also do not have a problem with those who have strong beliefs.
It's just those that like to announce it that I keep my eye on.
and that sir.... is Biblical. Matthew 6:5

Be a seeker and always question everything. All answers exist already only waiting to be discovered. Indifference is the enemy in all things.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:35 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by SeaBoss21 View Post
"There are no atheists in fox holes" . Sherman Potter.
Yup.. Raised Catholic, Catholic grammar school. Mom never missed mass, dad never went, he believed the Catholic church turned into nothing more than a very organized scam. You get the picture. I took cues from both. Never went to mass, believed (and still do) if there is a God, and I am a good person, I will go to heaven. At the age of 18-19 I prayed every night in the bush, while sitting on ambush in Vietnam.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:45 AM
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Jesus is Lord .....
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:46 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by N2theblue View Post
90% of Christians I know are judgemental hypocrites so no I am not going to choose to join that club. Shoot, look how many people on this thread who claim to be Christian have previously expressed misogynistic, racist, anti immigrant, anti poor people opinions. How many of you claimed to be "deplorable". How many of you use your religion to justify those attitudes and justify your discrimination.

Y'all can have it. I don't need a book or a preacher to know what the right thing to do is and how people should be treated.
your right ^^^ Its great that you are a good person.

You do need Jesus to go to heaven though.

I am not perfect. I was born into sin. But i also don't hide behind or justify any of my selfish acts behind the Bible.

I need grace every day




Jesus made some wild claims!! son of God, perfect, only get to heaven by believing in him.

pretty basic:

He is who he said he is and who the Bible confirmed through an impossible to make up lineage and predictions that all came true.

or

He is a crazy meglomaniac mad man that somehow has affected History and a large percentage of the planets population.

There is no nice guy, good teacher middle ground
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:03 AM
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I never liked the Church after I found out they kicked my 16 year old uncle and his pregnant, 16 year old fiance out. They have been married for 40 plus years and have 6 children now. Also, I don't like being told what to do or what to think. I make my own choices, whether right or wrong, and have confidence in them. I don't need religion to guide me. I have my own moral compass.

Another angle, how long before the Church recognizes gay marriage? My view is to each their own as long as it does not negatively impact me or anyone else. Discuss. haha
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:06 AM
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"I don't understand how you can call that a loving God. Care to tackle that question?"

If you ask God for forgiveness, you will receive it. Some people can forgive some bad acts, within certain limits. That difference, in and of itself, proves God's love for us.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:09 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Locke N Load View Post
I never liked the Church after I found out they kicked my 16 year old uncle and his pregnant, 16 year old fiance out. They have been married for 40 plus years and have 6 children now. Also, I don't like being told what to do or what to think. I make my own choices, whether right or wrong, and have confidence in them. I don't need religion to guide me. I have my own moral compass.

Another angle, how long before the Church recognizes gay marriage? My view is to each their own as long as it does not negatively impact me or anyone else. Discuss. haha
Why does "the church" have to recognize it?
We can argue all day long about equal rights and whether a state or the states should recognize it but why does "the church" have to recognize it?

If I don't like cats, should I be forced to tolerate or accept cats just because a small minority of crazy people actually do like cats?
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:10 AM
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I find it interesting to read about everyone's beliefs, non-beliefs... always thought it was great to be able to share that thought with people and not be psycho about it.

I grew up in a household of forced religion, grandfather was a pastor, studied the bible, went to Sunday school, church camps, etc... doesn't mean much in the end.
I don't go to church, haven't since I was 14 or so, other than doing it to make one of the grandparents happy on this or that holiday.

I don't really have a "faith" in anything other than my own abilities. I've done more good than bad, In my own opinion at least.... but I am also pretty indifferent as to what will happen when I die. I just don't care enough to think about it I guess.

I lost too many good people to bad shit to believe there is anything out there that is all-loving, all-forgiving though. Yet, that is my own opinion too.

I refuse to belittle anyone of their beliefs or their faith....I don't preach to anyone, don't preach to me. But...I am always open to a good discussion.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueRudy View Post
Why does "the church" have to recognize it?
We can argue all day long about equal rights and whether a state or the states should recognize it but why does "the church" have to recognize it?

If I don't like cats, should I be forced to tolerate or accept cats just because a small minority of crazy people actually do like cats?
Same reason the church accepts second marriages, adulterers, etc. The Pope has now entertained the idea of evolution.

Churches shift over time. Luckily the bible is written in languages that no one speaks any more, so you don't have to say you were wrong, you can "learn" it was an error in translation.

We're already seeing a shift. These guys aren't going to let a little homophobia get in the way of their donations
https://cruxnow.com/global-church/20...n-signs-times/
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:17 AM
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The questions about going to hell because you say something off color. No man can be the judge of another but I can point to a moment of grace that is available to everyone... even the worst of us.

First off.... if you refuse to believe then there is no point, however if your seeking to understand, even if your a 99% doubter then we can have a discussion. I'm gonna go with the 99% doubt if your asking questions.

As Jesus was dying on the cross one thief, out of nothing but pure fear, sought comfort from a man he did not know, believe in, worshiped or even cared about. The thief never prayed or went to temple or church. He ask one thing... remember me. That simple moment in time reminds us that there is nothing you can do or say that can not be covered by His grace.

No man can see into another's heart...
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by DavenFla View Post
I have never seen a push of faith on anyone... even Jehovah witness door knockers don't push.
That's your experience, but not mine.

My development is over 100 homes and the roads are private. We have a No Soliciting sign posted at both entrances. The Township has a solicitation policy, which specifically states that if you solicit on private property (i.e. our entire neighborhood) and are asked to leave, you must leave. They have this because religious solicitation from a genuine religious group (specifications in the Township policy) is allowed. Except on private property when asked to leave. Of course the sign at the entrance overrides everything. Don't come in to solicit regardless.

Frequently, carloads of people from a local church would drive the neighborhood, several cars. They get out in groups of 2 or 3, come up to the door, and try to strike up a conversation. It is pointed out to them that there is a no solicitation policy sign posted, and they are asked to leave. They say they are not soliciting, only informing. It is repeated to them that they are in violation of the Township's policy, they are on private property (the entire neighborhood) and need to leave. They get in their car and drive to the next house.

The next step is to call the Sheriff's office and they are escorted from the neighborhood.

I don't want to hear the pitch, especially at my front door. I respectfully interrupted and asked them to leave the neighborhood. They don't. Nothing respectful about their actions.

We also had this from a non-profit seeking to get signatures on ballot proposals every year. After repeatedly ignoring requests to not come into the development, a letter was sent to them by the Board telling them specifically that they were unwelcome and that if they entered the property again we would take legal action.

Lastly, I went to a celebration of life for a relative. This relative had been to church a few times in his life, as had his wife. They asked a deacon(?) of the son's church to come and speak. It was obvious the way he spoke of the deceased that he didn't know him. After what was a nice ten minutes, he launched into a diatribe of going to heaven and various references to a higher spirit under different names. And that if those assembled didn't believe in this person that they would not go to heaven. On and on he went. I got up, as did others, and walked to the far reaches of the lawn so as to not hear this any longer. Everyone was uncomfortable. After it was over, he told people that this person was speaking through him and telling him to lead us to salvation, ... But he wasn't asked to do that, he was asked to lead a simple service remembering the deceased.

Again - believe what you want, but when you start proclaiming these beliefs to me and I nicely ask you to stop, and you don't, then don't be surprised to think my next communication to you is rude.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jj1987 View Post
Same reason the church accepts second marriages, adulterers, etc. The Pope has now entertained the idea of evolution.

Churches shift over time. Luckily the bible is written in languages that no one speaks any more, so you don't have to say you were wrong, you can "learn" it was an error in translation.

We're already seeing a shift. These guys aren't going to let a little homophobia get in the way of their donations
https://cruxnow.com/global-church/20...n-signs-times/
If the Pope wants to believe his ancestors were primates that's his thing.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueRudy View Post
If the Pope wants to believe his ancestors were primates that's his thing.
Since he, like all humans, is a primate, it seems likely his recent ancestors were as well.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:44 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by rickboat View Post
That's your experience, but not mine.

My development is over 100 homes and the roads are private. We have a No Soliciting sign posted at both entrances. The Township has a solicitation policy, which specifically states that if you solicit on private property (i.e. our entire neighborhood) and are asked to leave, you must leave. They have this because religious solicitation from a genuine religious group (specifications in the Township policy) is allowed. Except on private property when asked to leave. Of course the sign at the entrance overrides everything. Don't come in to solicit regardless.

Frequently, carloads of people from a local church would drive the neighborhood, several cars. They get out in groups of 2 or 3, come up to the door, and try to strike up a conversation. It is pointed out to them that there is a no solicitation policy sign posted, and they are asked to leave. They say they are not soliciting, only informing. It is repeated to them that they are in violation of the Township's policy, they are on private property (the entire neighborhood) and need to leave. They get in their car and drive to the next house.

The next step is to call the Sheriff's office and they are escorted from the neighborhood.

I don't want to hear the pitch, especially at my front door. I respectfully interrupted and asked them to leave the neighborhood. They don't. Nothing respectful about their actions.

We also had this from a non-profit seeking to get signatures on ballot proposals every year. After repeatedly ignoring requests to not come into the development, a letter was sent to them by the Board telling them specifically that they were unwelcome and that if they entered the property again we would take legal action.

Lastly, I went to a celebration of life for a relative. This relative had been to church a few times in his life, as had his wife. They asked a deacon(?) of the son's church to come and speak. It was obvious the way he spoke of the deceased that he didn't know him. After what was a nice ten minutes, he launched into a diatribe of going to heaven and various references to a higher spirit under different names. And that if those assembled didn't believe in this person that they would not go to heaven. On and on he went. I got up, as did others, and walked to the far reaches of the lawn so as to not hear this any longer. Everyone was uncomfortable. After it was over, he told people that this person was speaking through him and telling him to lead us to salvation, ... But he wasn't asked to do that, he was asked to lead a simple service remembering the deceased.

Again - believe what you want, but when you start proclaiming these beliefs to me and I nicely ask you to stop, and you don't, then don't be surprised to think my next communication to you is rude.
I'm sorry that happened. People aren't perfect as you may well know. Let me kinda turn the discussion a bit and take faith and religion out of the equation for a moment.

Weathermen forecast potential events. They have tools they use. They get it wrong a lot... and we call them liars. They're not lying.... they're just wrong. Some won't even listen to them any longer because they get it wrong so often. However.... Sometimes lives are saved, some even prepare , just in case.

Weathermen.... They still forecast the weather and still get it wrong a lot. They just wanna save lives or give people a chance at saving their own life. It's what they do.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by sinjun View Post
It was exactly the opposite for me. I had considered myself agnostic for years, but after a traumatic spine surgery that left me in absolute misery for a couple months, I made the decision that there couldn't be a god because a god wouldn't put people through so much pain. I was in so much pain for one two week period that I didn't sleep for six days, and the only reason I'm still here today is because my mother was staying with me and I couldn't commit suicide with her there. So today I am an atheist, and after what I went through I am no longer afraid to die. I do not want to die but the idea that's I will die someday in the near future does not bother me at all. And after that revelation I don't have the need to believe in something that cannot be proven to exist.
Sort of, but what would worry me more is that it cant be disproven either, and the ramifications if it is indeed true are something no one should experience.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MSChE View Post
Since he, like all humans, is a primate, it seems likely his recent ancestors were as well.
Even though you understood exactly what I meant you still got me
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:51 AM
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Damen,Amen to that.
Where are you when you're in east Tn.Here in smoky's myself.
All the best!
Vinnie
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