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Old 11-30-2016, 08:19 AM
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I walked into a bar and then a THT thread was taken over by a living wage.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MattGoose View Post
I don't disagree with this. I really don't.

But I don't classify any of those things as part of a live able wage. I'm talking basics of live. Partially quoting something Chrispnet stated earlier (cause some of it is too damn much), I think a living wage should allow this:
healthy food,
clean water,
decent housing,
safe communities,
quality healthcare,
mental health services,
affordable quality education,
You want something beyond that, get a better job.
Should it be sufficient to provide the above list for a sole, single person who is willing to make some lifestyle accommodations (ie have a roommate or two), or sufficient to provide the above to an entire household?

If you rent a cheap apartment or trailer, with some roommates (nothing crazy, just one person per bedroom), living on Walmart or Mcdonalds pay is very doable. Start adding in kids, cable, and the expectation of having your own place, and it gets out of line quick. Nobody has the natural right to live by themselves, have kids, etc. That is all very optional.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by fishingfun View Post
I walked into a bar and then a THT thread was taken over by a living wage.
Sh-t sitting in the same bar for 2 days Iím so drunk I haven't noticed or have no home and donít care
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
Should it be sufficient to provide the above list for a sole, single person who is willing to make some lifestyle accommodations (ie have a roommate or two), or sufficient to provide the above to an entire household?

If you rent a cheap apartment or trailer, with some roommates (nothing crazy, just one person per bedroom), living on Walmart or Mcdonalds pay is very doable. Start adding in kids, cable, and the expectation of having your own place, and it gets out of line quick. Nobody has the natural right to live by themselves, have kids, etc. That is all very optional.
It is doable in some parts of the country, not others (which is where we have higher state minimum wages).

But, I honestly don't know where to draw the line. I think we are failing so hard right now on access to quality healthcare, affordable education, and (in some places) safe communities that it skews the rest of the picture.

I do have to agree - grudgingly - that society as a whole is not on the hook to pay for independent living facilities or families. I don't like telling someone they can't have a family because they can't get a job, but my kids take up enough of my disposable income already!

And I'm going to get roasted for this, but so be it. Wherever we draw that line, it should be enough for people to be hopeful about their future.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by MattGoose View Post
It is doable in some parts of the country, not others (which is where we have higher state minimum wages).

But, I honestly don't know where to draw the line. I think we are failing so hard right now on access to quality healthcare, affordable education, and (in some places) safe communities that it skews the rest of the picture.

I do have to agree - grudgingly - that society as a whole is not on the hook to pay for independent living facilities or families. I don't like telling someone they can't have a family because they can't get a job, but my kids take up enough of my disposable income already!

And I'm going to get roasted for this, but so be it. Wherever we draw that line, it should be enough for people to be hopeful about their future.
Not to go crazy political....but getting rid of the governmental mandates that require households to be single parent in order to have access to much of the assistance would go a long way towards righting the ship. If you look at all of the shitholes in terms of poverty and violence, there is a disproportionately high percentage of children who only live with one parent or the other.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
Not to go crazy political....but getting rid of the governmental incentives that require households to be single parent in order to have access to much of the assistance would go a long way towards righting the ship. If you look at all of the shitholes in terms of poverty and violence, there is a disproportionately high percentage of children who only live with one parent or the other.
Which incentives are those? I'm not aware of any that require only one parent. If there are, then that's criminally stoopid.

I have less than no patience for people that don't take care of their kids.

My wife and I are together through thick and thin and we started dating for the first time just short of 20 years. We've been through some stuff. Well, I guess I should say she has If anything did ever manage to rip us apart, you can bet your tail the kids would be taken care of.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MattGoose View Post
Which incentives are those? I'm not aware of any that require only one parent. If there are, then that's criminally stoopid.

I have less than no patience for people that don't take care of their kids.

My wife and I are together through thick and thin and we started dating for the first time just short of 20 years. We've been through some stuff. Well, I guess I should say she has If anything did ever manage to rip us apart, you can bet your tail the kids would be taken care of.
The laws aren't written directly to that effect, but the that is the net impact. Specifically I'm referring to access to WIC (food-stamps available specifically for Women, Infants, & children) and Medicaid. As soon as you add in a second income provider, even at minimum wage, the availability goes down significantly just due to the #'s involved. The idea behind this is noble, but the net effect is that benefits get cut off like flipping a switch. There are also a ton of programs available for secondary education that is available only to single mothers, but unavailable to poor married families.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
The laws aren't written directly to that effect, but the that is the net impact. Specifically I'm referring to access to WIC (food-stamps available specifically for Women, Infants, & children) and Medicaid. As soon as you add in a second income provider, even at minimum wage, the availability goes down significantly just due to the #'s involved. The idea behind this is noble, but the net effect is that benefits get cut off like flipping a switch. There are also a ton of programs available for secondary education that is available only to single mothers, but unavailable to poor married families.
Was going to type all that out but you beat me to it.

It's created a situation where there is more benefit to be a single mother not working.

Edit: I'm thinking about sitting at a bar....
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Spruill242 View Post
Was going to type all that out but you beat me to it.

It's created a situation where there is more benefit to be a single mother not working.

Edit: I'm thinking about sitting at a bar....
Exactly. the biggest thing missing from a policy standpoint is a timed, transition program to allow for people to go from getting the full benefits they qualify for as a single parent, down to lesser benefits, without the effect being like flipping off a light switch.
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:02 AM
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More fuggin bar jokes, please
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
The laws aren't written directly to that effect, but the that is the net impact. Specifically I'm referring to access to WIC (food-stamps available specifically for Women, Infants, & children) and Medicaid. As soon as you add in a second income provider, even at minimum wage, the availability goes down significantly just due to the #'s involved. The idea behind this is noble, but the net effect is that benefits get cut off like flipping a switch. There are also a ton of programs available for secondary education that is available only to single mothers, but unavailable to poor married families.
OK - that's what I thought you were saying. And I still agree. There should be an adequate safety net that doesn't disincentive working or being in a two parent family.

But shouldn't employers cover as much of this as reasonably possible, before falling back to rely on government programs?

Originally Posted by Spruill242 View Post
Was going to type all that out but you beat me to it.

It's created a situation where there is more benefit to be a single mother not working.

Edit: I'm thinking about sitting at a bar....
I would love to be sitting at a bar.... Nice glass of bourbon to go with it....

I don't, however, agree that it incentivizes (sp?) not working. You get WIC, for example, up to an hourly wage of about $11/hr ($21,978 annual).

You get the same amount whether you work or not. And the assistance programs we have are not enough to work on. WIC is for access to reduced price goods, not free. The level of assistance you get falls off as you break certain income thresholds.
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by fishingfun View Post
I walked into a bar and then a THT thread was taken over by a living wage.
Where's the Mod Squad to deliver this to the bilge
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:05 AM
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What do you get if you cross an elephant with a rhino?


Elifino
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
Exactly. the biggest thing missing from a policy standpoint is a timed, transition program to allow for people to go from getting the full benefits they qualify for as a single parent, down to lesser benefits, without the effect being like flipping off a light switch.
I don't understand how you are talking about increasing government benefits and not getting killed

I'm talking about increasing pay requirements so we can reduce government subsidies and I'm getting slaughtered
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:14 AM
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Honest question for those who are advocating a Livable Wage:

If I were to open a Hamburger stand and paid a livable wage to all my employees, would you be willing to pay a price difference for the product that we produced ? If so, how much ? Would you go out of your way to frequent the establishment ?

BTW, love the bi-polar nature of this thread, awesome !!!!
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MattGoose View Post
I would love to be sitting at a bar.... Nice glass of bourbon to go with it....

I don't, however, agree that it incentivizes (sp?) not working. You get WIC, for example, up to an hourly wage of about $11/hr ($21,978 annual).

You get the same amount whether you work or not. And the assistance programs we have are not enough to work on. WIC is for access to reduced price goods, not free. The level of assistance you get falls off as you break certain income thresholds.
We're saying the same thing for the most part, you just did it more elegantly.

And I also agree that you can't argue against a living wage and then also argue against Government tax funded programs. If the Living Wage was increased then the spending of tax dollars for subsides programs "should" fall as people are pushed out of qualifying.

But this is all if everything was run how it should be and with a good amount of common sense.

I have just recently gotten into the Bourbon thing. I'm surprised that I like it but don't know enough to know what I'm looking at or tasting yet.
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:16 AM
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I hate being bi-polar, it's awesome!
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Boat Bum View Post
I hate being bi-polar, it's awesome!
Slow clap for you good sir.
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MustaGotLost View Post
Honest question for those who are advocating a Livable Wage:

If I were to open a Hamburger stand and paid a livable wage to all my employees, would you be willing to pay a price difference for the product that we produced ? If so, how much ? Would you go out of your way to frequent the establishment ?

BTW, love the bi-polar nature of this thread, awesome !!!!
In theory, yes! In practice, it depends

The actual increase in the cost of the good is obviously, dependent in part on labor costs. But the % of the total that labor represents varies wildly.

How much more does that burger cost me and what is the basis of estimate?

As a swag, if you increase hourly wage from $10 to $15 (just to make the math easier) you labor cost just went up 50%. But, how do you allocate that to a burger? It takes, 10 minutes to make a burger? So labor for a burger went from $1.66 to $2.50.

If you are asking if I would pay an extra $0.84 to support this then absolutely.

Obviously, it isn't quite that simple. But if you want to put up a different estimate, I'll discuss it
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Boat Bum View Post
I was talking to the pig.
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