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Lobstercatcher229 10-06-2016 08:01 AM

Real Estate Closing Question
 
I appreciate the vast knowledge of THT folks.

I loaned money for someone to buy a house. That house closed this week. After payment of the loan and other expenses there was some profit. That profit has been given to the homeowner. As the lender my payoff hasn't happened yet.

As the lender we are getting different excuses, reasons, why the money hasn't been wired. Are there some protections if after the latest "reason", closing today for the Hurricane on the Florida East Coast my loan payoff money disappears?

The homeowner sold the house through a realtor, which I have read has some protections.

GrimKeeper 10-06-2016 08:10 AM

Do you have a properly recorded first mortgage and a mortgagee policy when you loaned the money? If so I would not be alarmed over a few days. However, it is unusual that seller received closing proceeds and mortgagee did not at the same time.

mikefloyd 10-06-2016 08:13 AM

Were you listed on the closing documents as a loan?

Bamaman 10-06-2016 08:18 AM

You need to be talking to the closing attorney asking where the money is.

It's not out of the ordinary for an attorney to float on a payoff.

Lobstercatcher229 10-06-2016 08:21 AM


Originally Posted by mikefloyd (Post 9545871)
Were you listed on the closing documents as a loan?

Yes

Jersus 10-06-2016 08:21 AM


Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 (Post 9545816)
I appreciate the vast knowledge of THT folks.

I loaned money for someone to buy a house. That house closed this week. After payment of the loan and other expenses there was some profit. That profit has been given to the homeowner. As the lender my payoff hasn't happened yet.

As the lender we are getting different excuses, reasons, why the money hasn't been wired. Are there some protections if after the latest "reason", closing today for the Hurricane on the Florida East Coast my loan payoff money disappears?

The homeowner sold the house through a realtor, which I have read has some protections.

Contact Fichton on this forum - he is a RE attorney

coastboater 10-06-2016 08:24 AM


Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 (Post 9545816)
I appreciate the vast knowledge of THT folks.

I loaned money for someone to buy a house. That house closed this week. After payment of the loan and other expenses there was some profit. That profit has been given to the homeowner. As the lender my payoff hasn't happened yet.

As the lender we are getting different excuses, reasons, why the money hasn't been wired. Are there some protections if after the latest "reason", closing today for the Hurricane on the Florida East Coast my loan payoff money disappears?

The homeowner sold the house through a realtor, which I have read has some protections.

I'm confused by your explanation.
You loaned money to someone that bought a house and has now sold it?
Or, you loaned funds to someone that just purchased the home?

If the former, the escrow company should have satisfied your loan by wiring you the funds.
The buyer taking funds from closing is immaterial, unless the latter scenario, and you expect him to pay back your loan.

ladyjane 10-06-2016 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 (Post 9545891)
Yes

If you hold the first lien on the property they must pay you first to close and reassign the new title

Reely Nice GW 10-06-2016 08:29 AM

Payoff paperwork generally follows closing by a week or so,you should be Ok.

bjm9818 10-06-2016 08:33 AM

As long as you have s properly recorded lien on the property you are fine.

amofgreenville 10-06-2016 09:00 AM

I would think closing attorney would have your proceeds

TorFed 10-06-2016 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by bjm9818 (Post 9545945)
As long as you have s properly recorded lien on the property you are fine.

This.

triplenet 10-06-2016 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 (Post 9545816)
I appreciate the vast knowledge of THT folks.

I loaned money for someone to buy a house. That house closed this week. After payment of the loan and other expenses there was some profit. That profit has been given to the homeowner. As the lender my payoff hasn't happened yet.

As the lender we are getting different excuses, reasons, why the money hasn't been wired. Are there some protections if after the latest "reason", closing today for the Hurricane on the Florida East Coast my loan payoff money disappears?

The homeowner sold the house through a realtor, which I have read has some protections.

How did they close on a sale without paying off your first position ? You would have needed to sign a release .....

Something smells IMHO

Dulcecita Lures 10-06-2016 09:29 AM

Loan closing and funding are not synonymous, although everyone seems to think they are. Closing is the official signing of the paperwork at the title company. Funding (the actual wire transfers) may not take place until a few days after -- once the bank has reviewed all the signed paperwork and deemed all is in order.

You should be able to contact the bank to verify when/how the wire transfers took or are taking place.

mikefloyd 10-06-2016 09:34 AM


Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 (Post 9545891)
Yes

Then you have legal rights that vary by state but off the top of my head I believe it's 3 working days most of the time. You should run this by the closing attorney, again.

triplenet 10-06-2016 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by Dulcecita Lures (Post 9546137)
Loan closing and funding are not synonymous, although everyone seems to think they are. Closing is the official signing of the paperwork at the title company. Funding (the actual wire transfers) may not take place until a few days after -- once the bank has reviewed all the signed paperwork and deemed all is in order.

You should be able to contact the bank to verify when/how the wire transfers took or are taking place.

the title company and/or closing agent would have requested verification of the payoff amount from the lender (OP)

Flot 10-06-2016 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 (Post 9545816)
As the lender we are getting different excuses, reasons, why the money hasn't been wired. Are there some protections if after the latest "reason", closing today for the Hurricane on the Florida East Coast my loan payoff money disappears?

I don't know where you are, but in case you weren't clear on it - essentially everything on the east coast of florida is legitimately closed today and tomorrow, because everyone is too busy frantically trying to button up their homes and offices for the storm.

bjm9818 10-06-2016 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by triplenet (Post 9546156)
the title company and/or closing agent would have requested verification of the payoff amount from the lender (OP)

That wire transfer should have gone out within a hour of closing. Delaying payment changes the payoff amount due to accruing interest.

I'm guessing the OP lent some people money in a informal manner and was expecting them
To do the right thing and pay him back at closing. I hope I'm wrong but he should have received the funds by now.

ladyjane 10-06-2016 09:55 AM


Originally Posted by triplenet (Post 9546156)
the title company and/or closing agent would have requested verification of the payoff amount from the lender (OP)

I have always closed with a lawyer and had funds verified and deposited on the day of signing otherwise its a no go for me

Lobstercatcher229 10-06-2016 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by Flot (Post 9546161)
I don't know where you are, but in case you weren't clear on it - essentially everything on the east coast of florida is legitimately closed today and tomorrow, because everyone is too busy frantically trying to button up their homes and offices for the storm.

I am in Central Florida. Since everything is legitimately closed in Fort Lauderdale, where all this closing is taking place I appreciate everyone's advice and guess I need to be patient till Monday when I can check on what happened to the wired money that they said would go out yesterday afternoon.

Double tyme 10-06-2016 10:09 AM


Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 9546208)
I have always closed with a lawyer and had funds verified and deposited on the day of signing otherwise its a no go for me

This 90% of the time but there are issues sometimes. The term bankers hours came about for a reason. Late closings sometimes wire gets delayed. Especially if it goes through the main branch of bank which happens to be on Wall Street.

Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 (Post 9546224)
I am in Central Florida. Since everything is legitimately closed in Fort Lauderdale, where all this closing is taking place I appreciate everyone's advice and guess I need to be patient till Monday when I can check on what happened to the wired money that they said would go out yesterday afternoon.

I wouldn't freak out just yet though I would be nervous too. If everything is in line paperwork wise and you were mentioned on the HUD/Alta/closing statement I don't see an issue.

Also op can you specify if you are in the "first position"? Don't see why it makes a difference if there was profit but I would feel better if there weren't other lenders involved in your shoes.

chrispnet 10-06-2016 10:33 AM


Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 (Post 9546224)
I am in Central Florida. Since everything is legitimately closed in Fort Lauderdale, where all this closing is taking place I appreciate everyone's advice and guess I need to be patient till Monday when I can check on what happened to the wired money that they said would go out yesterday afternoon.

Obviously they aren't disputing your standing and their obligation.

Lobstercatcher229 10-06-2016 10:51 AM


Originally Posted by Double tyme (Post 9546253)
This 90% of the time but there are issues sometimes. The term bankers hours came about for a reason. Late closings sometimes wire gets delayed. Especially if it goes through the main branch of bank which happens to be on Wall Street.


I wouldn't freak out just yet though I would be nervous too. If everything is in line paperwork wise and you were mentioned on the HUD/Alta/closing statement I don't see an issue.

Also op can you specify if you are in the "first position"? Don't see why it makes a difference if there was profit but I would feel better if there weren't other lenders involved in your shoes.

No other lenders involved.

water rat 10-06-2016 02:38 PM

One obvious suggestion is to make sure a discharge (release of the lien) is not issued until you have confirmed you have received payment in-full.

Lobstercatcher229 10-07-2016 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by triplenet (Post 9546121)
How did they close on a sale without paying off your first position ? You would have needed to sign a release .....

Something smells IMHO


I kind of thought so too. I thank everyone for their time talking about this. It was supposed to close a week ago, and finally today the wire came through.

It can be a bit scary, especially since my wife and I enjoy watching American Greed!

But all seems to be well.

fichtion 10-07-2016 12:33 PM

If your loan was secured you should have been asked to provide a payoff statement and then paid at closing via a bank check or wire transfer from settlement agent.

No delay, other than maybe one day if the closing occurred late the day.

Period.

Double tyme 10-07-2016 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 (Post 9546427)
No other lenders involved.

You should be fine then. I made a bunch of business related exceptions due to the storm. Chalk it up to that til Monday or Tuesday.


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