Notices

Blow boat school/yacht club

Old 08-17-2016, 03:28 PM
  #1  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,585
Default Blow boat school/yacht club

On LBI/NJ there are a couple of Yacht clubs where young kids learn how to operate small sail boats. You can easily tell that some of them know their way around these little 8-10 boats quite well. The problem i9s that the school holds classes in an area that goes all around the ICW. Last weekend we were heading north through the area in a slow speed zone and a could of these little Nazi's cut across the marked channel right in front of you on purpose and the instructors say nothing. I understand a blow boat has the right of way but with 20 little flys all around it's difficult keeping clear of them when they want to be a pest.

Anyone else ever have a run in of this type in the past? In my 30+ years of boating in this area I've never had a problem with the classes before.
YFMF is online now  
Old 08-17-2016, 03:43 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Coastal South Carolina
Posts: 2,871
Default

call the yc and speak to the sailing school person, or just steer around them (how hard is that) little kids learning to sail

the schools in charleston try to stay out of the channel
edwardh1 is offline  
Old 08-17-2016, 03:54 PM
  #3  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,585
Default

Originally Posted by edwardh1 View Post
call the yc and speak to the sailing school person, or just steer around them (how hard is that) little kids learning to sail

the schools in charleston try to stay out of the channel
How hard is that? Like I said, I've been boating for 30+ years in this same area, it seems this year that the "students" are looking to push motor boaters around.

The channel is narrow in certain points, we're only moving at 5 mph at most the sail boat is heading south along his side of the markers and out of no where he cuts hard left/port into my path. I drop her in neutral and allow him to pass less then 5' in front of me. As soon as I drop her back in gear he comes around again and crosses the channel.

I all most went over to the support craft and told them off but with wife and kids in the boat thought it was best left alone. On the way back south other blow boaters were acting recklessly in their little doggy's with other power boats in close proximity.

I'll be back in the area again this weekend, and will take your advise and call the school if it continues to happen.
YFMF is online now  
Old 08-17-2016, 04:10 PM
  #4  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,018
Default

Originally Posted by YFMF View Post
On LBI/NJ there are a couple of Yacht clubs where young kids learn how to operate small sail boats. You can easily tell that some of them know their way around these little 8-10 boats quite well. The problem i9s that the school holds classes in an area that goes all around the ICW. Last weekend we were heading north through the area in a slow speed zone and a could of these little Nazi's cut across the marked channel right in front of you on purpose and the instructors say nothing. I understand a blow boat has the right of way but with 20 little flys all around it's difficult keeping clear of them when they want to be a pest.

Anyone else ever have a run in of this type in the past? In my 30+ years of boating in this area I've never had a problem with the classes before.
A similar yacht club held the same classes for the same young kids. The kids in my harbor doe the same exact thing, cut right in front of power boaters. They have the same blow boat loving instructors who teach them they have the right of way and can anything they want. I fnnn hate them and blow boaters in general.
saltwaters is offline  
Old 08-17-2016, 04:15 PM
  #5  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Anderson SC
Posts: 3,803
Default

Time to change the law... we can only ram them at the same speed as the current wind is blowing?
cphilip is online now  
Old 08-17-2016, 05:12 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Palm Beach Gardens FL
Posts: 1,468
Default

No matter how you feel about them "inconveniencing" you, they do, by law, have the stand on advantage by way of being under sail. And these kids are seriously trying to win. How long does it take to let them learn a bit about sailing and boat handling?
Fiberglass1 Inc is offline  
Old 08-17-2016, 06:11 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bayville NJ
Posts: 880
Default

Please give the kids a break, it keeps them out of trouble. Some children in the small prams are less then 10.
On the bay alone.
It really teaches them personal responsibility, if they are don't pay attention, they get smacked in the head with a boom.
I was only a member while my son was sailing, and some of the other members were pretty obnoxious, but for me it was all about the kids.
And yes the Sunday race course was often damm close to the channel, laid out according to the wind.
hevysrf is online now  
Old 08-17-2016, 06:24 PM
  #8  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,585
Default

I'm all for these kids, even tried to get my kid in (you need to know an existing member) but what this kid did is not safe and was done as far as I can tell on purpose. Seemed like the kids were swarming to protect an area they may have felt was reserved for them.
YFMF is online now  
Old 08-17-2016, 06:37 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Chesapeake
Posts: 2,548
Default

Some of you guys who are expressing irritation with kids learning to sail -- unbelievable.

Also, sorry to say, but if you understood what they were doing, you could have easily anticipated their course changes and acted accordingly -- none of it would take you by surprise. But you lack understanding, so you aren't able to anticipate and act accordingly. That is not their problem or fault -- it is YOUR lack of understanding.

The reason their course was different this time from previous times when you transited the same area, was because the wind was from a different direction. There will be times when the wind direction will require them to tack up or down a channel, back and forth, seeming to zigzag for no reason, but it is absolutely necessary. With more favorable winds, they might be able to pass up or down the channel parrallel to the traffic without making a single turn. This is the nature of sailing. And this is a major part of why motor vessels give way to sailing vessels.

Study up or get over it!
The Spit is offline  
Old 08-17-2016, 07:01 PM
  #10  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,101
Default

I taught and coached sailing while in HS and college. We ran drills and races 5-6 days a week with 10-20 boats in action at one time. It's how the kids learn boat handling skills.

You should be thankful that the kids are out there learning their way around the water, better than most guys who decide at their first commission check they want a 36 Sea Ray as their first boat.
Avid 24 is offline  
Old 08-17-2016, 07:03 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
gatorbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Palm Harbor, Fl
Posts: 1,041
Default

And make sure those darn kids stay off your lawn too.
gatorbus is offline  
Old 08-17-2016, 08:49 PM
  #12  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,807
Default

Originally Posted by YFMF View Post
On LBI/NJ there are a couple of Yacht clubs where young kids learn how to operate small sail boats. You can easily tell that some of them know their way around these little 8-10 boats quite well. The problem i9s that the school holds classes in an area that goes all around the ICW. Last weekend we were heading north through the area in a slow speed zone and a could of these little Nazi's cut across the marked channel right in front of you on purpose and the instructors say nothing. I understand a blow boat has the right of way but with 20 little flys all around it's difficult keeping clear of them when they want to be a pest.

Anyone else ever have a run in of this type in the past? In my 30+ years of boating in this area I've never had a problem with the classes before.
Wow, first of all, it's not your water. And you are absolutely in the wrong.

Do you get angry when you have to wait at a stop sign for traffic to go by? If you do, maybe get some help. If not there is some other factor. My guess is that it makes you a little anxious, because you are not confident in your boat handling skills.

I can guarantee you, each one of these little kids, if they stick with these programs for a few years, will have abundant small boat handling skills. Instead of getting angry at children, why don't you do something about your skills? Maybe get some lessons on how to maneuver in tight spaces, how to stop, go, turn, back up; things like that. Did you know that these little kids actually learn how to back up in a sail boat? And if they stick with it into their teens, they will have capsized, swamped, pitch poled, there boat so many times you cant count, and they recover the boat each time. Really, what would you do if you got 6 inches of water inside the boat? Well, the lots of power boaters would start quivering, and call sea tow, maybe start yelling may day into the radio. These little kids, after a few years, could handle that type of situation, easy peasy, without negative emotion.

Also, how long did you really have to wait? 30 seconds, a minute, maybe two? Well, that is the opposite of generous. Calling little children "flys"? What makes you anything better?
Time Machine is offline  
Old 08-17-2016, 10:15 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,583
Default

Unles this is a real snotty country club, they will welcome someone who is interested in increasing the safety of all the craft on the water.
Contact the Commodore with a polite letter of interest directed toward safety and mutual understanding.
The sail training part of the club would be the subject.
Offer to help in an event, meet with them, ride on a committee boat during an event. Most clubs are always looking for power boats to help during their sailing events. You will find a good bunch of boating folks who are very interested in their sport. You will also find that these sail training programs for kids are sacred territory just as your kids pruograms are; only more so! So be careful what you say, it will be held against you. Take my word for that.

This subject is one of understanding from both sides. Those above who are yelling "We are Racing" are as much of problem as those yelling "Get out of the way". Yelling does not help, here or on the water.

They are just kids, is bull. They need training in understanding and considering others as much as "the rules". The instructors do also. Bottom line, the sailing community represents only abouit 17 % of the boating community and most of them know it. Cooperation and understandiog are paramount.

The instructors can take into account other water craft when setting up courses. At the same time, they may be training for a serious event. This summer we had juniors (13) years and younger in Europe competing internationally and winning. The little rats learn so fast it is Intimidating.

If none of this supposed wisdom makes any sense, picture your kid at the helm of one of these boats vs standing on a street corner making a score. While these ativities are not mutually exclusive! I retain my belief in our boating community.

These comments are based on 30 years of racing sail boats and even more operatings small power boats. I assure you I know less now than I thought I did along the way, but I do believe in that Boaing Community mentioned.
As much as each sector of the community can understand the rest, we bcome better watermen, and we will have more fun at it.

Looking on the bright side, the sails are much easier to see than kayaks.

Bottom line, you cannot run them over. That ruins propellers and every second of the rest of your life.

Sincerely,
John Saunders

Spit, I think you over reacted, but I often do too. If you ever head to Austin send me a personal message. We need to sail one afternoon when the conditions are decent. That is what it is all about. There is a J-22 and a 170 Montauk at the lake. My treat.
wezie is offline  
Old 08-18-2016, 04:57 AM
  #14  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,649
Default

Don't be so sanctimonious and make assumptions in order to support your supposed outrage at the OP.
a. The OP has 30 years experience, so he isn't a first-timer. What he saw was different from other encounters, or he wouldn't have posted.
b. easily anticipating is a foolish statement, because making a direction change is at the whim of the sailor; the kid could just have easily waited 20 seconds to let the OP's boat pass.
b1. With 20 boats sailing, and with the ICW narrow, it becomes a game of guts...with the sailboats' skippers having the unfair advantage.
c. BTDT when I was a kid in Hollywood....the difference being I did it once and just about got run over. I learned a good lesson that day...pay attention, and don't assume.
d. If the YC had to use the ICW, then it is a big safety lesson that the YC must teach the kids; don't assume that your right of way is going to save you if the motor vessel can't or doesn't stop in time.
e. little kids that are learning to sail don't all have skill sets, and might lose control just after they've entered the kill zone in front of a motor boat. The YC shares responsibility for keeping their kids safe.
f. In this day and age, "entitlement", is a new buzz-words for kids. Read all the posts defending the kids and see where that entitlement has spread to.....parents.
g. Years ago, parents would have known which kids were pushing the entitlement envelope and been at the dock waiting to give the little chit a few extra chores. Why not today?

Originally Posted by The Spit View Post
Some of you guys who are expressing irritation with kids learning to sail -- unbelievable.

Also, sorry to say, but if you understood what they were doing, you could have easily anticipated their course changes and acted accordingly -- none of it would take you by surprise. But you lack understanding, so you aren't able to anticipate and act accordingly. That is not their problem or fault -- it is YOUR lack of understanding.

The reason their course was different this time from previous times when you transited the same area, was because the wind was from a different direction. There will be times when the wind direction will require them to tack up or down a channel, back and forth, seeming to zigzag for no reason, but it is absolutely necessary. With more favorable winds, they might be able to pass up or down the channel parrallel to the traffic without making a single turn. This is the nature of sailing. And this is a major part of why motor vessels give way to sailing vessels.

Study up or get over it!
bamaboy473 is online now  
Old 08-18-2016, 05:26 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,767
Default

Originally Posted by YFMF View Post
On LBI/NJ there are a couple of Yacht clubs where young kids learn how to operate small sail boats. You can easily tell that some of them know their way around these little 8-10 boats quite well. The problem i9s that the school holds classes in an area that goes all around the ICW. Last weekend we were heading north through the area in a slow speed zone and a could of these little Nazi's cut across the marked channel right in front of you on purpose and the instructors say nothing. I understand a blow boat has the right of way but with 20 little flys all around it's difficult keeping clear of them when they want to be a pest.

Anyone else ever have a run in of this type in the past? In my 30+ years of boating in this area I've never had a problem with the classes before.

Somewhere on a sailboat forum there is a thread about that a-hole power boater that would not get out of the way and intentionally went through the course. He tried to come as close as possible to the sail boats, on purpose of course.

The OP is clearly in the wrong, and of course has to vent and label the kids as "Nazi's", and "fly's". Good thing for him there were no kayaks or jet skis around. Would have sent him into orbit.
Jersus is offline  
Old 08-18-2016, 05:33 AM
  #16  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,807
Default

Originally Posted by bamaboy473 View Post
Don't be so sanctimonious and make assumptions in order to support your supposed outrage at the OP.
a. The OP has 30 years experience, so he isn't a first-timer. What he saw was different from other encounters, or he wouldn't have posted.
b. easily anticipating is a foolish statement, because making a direction change is at the whim of the sailor; the kid could just have easily waited 20 seconds to let the OP's boat pass.
b1. With 20 boats sailing, and with the ICW narrow, it becomes a game of guts...with the sailboats' skippers having the unfair advantage.
c. BTDT when I was a kid in Hollywood....the difference being I did it once and just about got run over. I learned a good lesson that day...pay attention, and don't assume.
d. If the YC had to use the ICW, then it is a big safety lesson that the YC must teach the kids; don't assume that your right of way is going to save you if the motor vessel can't or doesn't stop in time.
e. little kids that are learning to sail don't all have skill sets, and might lose control just after they've entered the kill zone in front of a motor boat. The YC shares responsibility for keeping their kids safe.
f. In this day and age, "entitlement", is a new buzz-words for kids. Read all the posts defending the kids and see where that entitlement has spread to.....parents.
g. Years ago, parents would have known which kids were pushing the entitlement envelope and been at the dock waiting to give the little chit a few extra chores. Why not today?
No, 30 years of experience means nothing if you don't have boat handling skills or knowledge of right of way. The original poster should not have approached close enough to the right of way boats to have any issue whatsoever. Sail boats have sails on them, and you can spot them from a pretty good distance, and they zig zag around to get up wind; anybody that knows anything about boating knows this. I'm pretty sure that the original poster is driving a small boat with adequate maneuverability in the vessel that, given adequate boat handling skills, it could stop or avoid.

Really, the rules are the rules. It looks like that original poster has some issues handling his boat, and on top of this there is some feeling that because the power boat is bigger, he has some sense of entitlement to be excepted from the rules.

Plus, it's not cool to think of children as flys, or Nazis.
Time Machine is offline  
Old 08-18-2016, 05:34 AM
  #17  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 9,459
Default

I feel the same way about sail-boaters having the right-away as I do about pedestrians having it. It is a good policy in general to keep them safe........but damn, why do we have to tell them that they have the right away.......especially the beginners.
autobaun70 is offline  
Old 08-18-2016, 05:39 AM
  #18  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 9,459
Default

Originally Posted by Time Machine View Post
No, 30 years of experience means nothing if you don't have boat handling skills or knowledge of right of way. The original poster should not have approached close enough to the right of way boats to have any issue whatsoever. Sail boats have sails on them, and you can spot them from a pretty good distance, and they zig zag around to get up wind; anybody that knows anything about boating knows this. I'm pretty sure that the original poster is driving a small boat with adequate maneuverability in the vessel that, given adequate boat handling skills, it could stop or avoid.

Really, the rules are the rules. It looks like that original poster has some issues handling his boat, and on top of this there is some feeling that because the power boat is bigger, he has some sense of entitlement to be excepted from the rules.

Plus, it's not cool to think of children as flys, or Nazis.
So by this notion, when there are 10+ sail boats going up and down wind in a narrow channel, they have exclusive rights to the entire channel. If you can't stay far enough away you just can't go out that day?
autobaun70 is offline  
Old 08-18-2016, 05:49 AM
  #19  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,807
Default

Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
So by this notion, when there are 10+ sail boats going up and down wind in a narrow channel, they have exclusive rights to the entire channel. If you can't stay far enough away you just can't go out that day?

Boats under sail have right of way, unless you are in a 70' trawler, or tug boat pulling a barge; something that can't maneuver.

My guess is that the guy had to wait less than 5 minutes, and got his feathers ruffled.

Look at it this way, does a tractor trailer get to blow through a stop sign if a bunch of cars are driving by? Well, it's the same way on a boat.
Time Machine is offline  
Old 08-18-2016, 05:52 AM
  #20  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 423
Default

I am a power boater and a sailboat racer for 30 years. I agree with wezie. Along with teaching the kids how to race and tactics, they need to teach good seamanship and stress safety.

They are lucky that it was the OP who seems to be a responsible and safe boater, rather than the 46' SeaRay first boat owner that just left the Local ICW beach bar.

On the ICW I have seen inattentive or under the influence boaters hit buoys, markers, sea walls, other boaters, and run aground. The kids should be taught to assume that the power boat does not see them, and then be thankful that the powerboat is the OP and slows to avoid confrontation.

Contact the yacht club. Don't talk about you and how you were inconvenienced, but instead talk about the safety of the kids. These are probably kids of the YC board of directors. They will listen.
Tony Trak is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread