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Blow boat school/yacht club

Old 08-18-2016, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Poppin cork View Post
Someone did say that the motorboater should have stayed back out of that channel till they sailboats were through.
and what is the protocol for when they have no intention of passing through........just want to hang out in the channel and zig back and forth, up and down the channel. Do the tender snowflakes with the right of way then have the defacto "right to the channel" until a tug comes along?
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Poppin cork View Post
Someone did say that the motorboater should have stayed back out of that channel till they sailboats were through. No one is advocating the guy speeding through the no wake zone through the middle of the sailboats. In this case the motorboater did follow the law. He did give right of way. No laws were broken in this scenario.

Like I said before with all of the threads on this site that are about idiots on the water. Are you really confident in telling your children to cut in front of another boat? I can tell you right now with what I see on the water I definitely would not tell my kid to do it.
No one here is advising their own or anyone else's children to cut in front of another boat in a risky manner. The discussion here concerns the obligaton of a motor boater to give-way to the sailboats in the channel, and the OPs frustration at having to do so.

If you are suggesting that those children should be told not to tack up or down a channel, then that is roughly akin to telling a motorboater to turn off his engine and drift while underway. They would not be able to get where they are going and that would be more unsafe than the risk they take by tacking up, down, or across the channel.

(Also, I made no reference to a speeding motorboater. Nor was it a statement about the conduct of the OP. It was simply an effort to illustrate a point by drawing a nautical analogy to your speeding car reference.)
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Old 08-18-2016, 11:48 AM
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Wow! I almost can't believe some of the replies to this thread, but then I remembered it's THT.

We were in an 18' DC, the sail boats are very visible as well as I always expect them to be running in the area they were from prior experience. When 300 yards away I slowed my boat to point out the sail boaters to my 6 and 8 yr olds and asked if they thought they'd enjoy doing something like that. (their answer was a collective no), we continued at a no wake speed as we would soon be entering the zone anyway.

These sail boats must draft every bit of 6" perhaps 1 ft or so if they have a keel. They zip around a large area the size of several football fields on either side of the channel, in all my years I've never seen or encountered any one of them pull what this kid did. It was quite deliberate and without cause.

In the case of others anytime we would get "close" I'd drop the boat into neutral and back into drive as needed to get through the school/swarm. These kids were having fun and learning. I'm pretty much referring to one or two kids that seemed to be acting aggressively.

You don't dart out into traffic, period, right of way or not. Part of being a good seaman/sailor is being responsible and doing the right thing. As stated by another member here, there was no reason the student couldn't wait 30' for me to pass and then make his turn.

There is a huge difference between a kid losing control or making a tactical error and someone cutting you off on purpose. When making a mistake a natural reaction is to have the look of I'm sorry on ones face, this kid had the look of, "that's right, what are you going to do about it?" on his face, a real snoot nose.
Thanks for those that supported me, be safe on the water.

PS I've been boating since I was 5 with my dad, 13 on my own with a few years off in between, took and passed my CG tests as has my wife. I don't drink or operate recklessly.
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Old 08-18-2016, 11:55 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by YFMF View Post
Wow! I almost can't believe some of the replies to this thread, but then I remembered it's THT.

We were in an 18' DC, the sail boats are very visible as well as I always expect them to be running in the area they were from prior experience. When 300 yards away I slowed my boat to point out the sail boaters to my 6 and 8 yr olds and asked if they thought they'd enjoy doing something like that. (their answer was a collective no), we continued at a no wake speed as we would soon be entering the zone anyway.

These sail boats must draft every bit of 6" perhaps 1 ft or so if they have a keel. They zip around a large area the size of several football fields on either side of the channel, in all my years I've never seen or encountered any one of them pull what this kid did. It was quite deliberate and without cause.

In the case of others anytime we would get "close" I'd drop the boat into neutral and back into drive as needed to get through the school/swarm. These kids were having fun and learning. I'm pretty much referring to one or two kids that seemed to be acting aggressively.

You don't dart out into traffic, period, right of way or not. Part of being a good seaman/sailor is being responsible and doing the right thing. As stated by another member here, there was no reason the student couldn't wait 30' for me to pass and then make his turn.

There is a huge difference between a kid losing control or making a tactical error and someone cutting you off on purpose. When making a mistake a natural reaction is to have the look of I'm sorry on ones face, this kid had the look of, "that's right, what are you going to do about it?" on his face, a real snoot nose.
Thanks for those that supported me, be safe on the water.

PS I've been boating since I was 5 with my dad, 13 on my own with a few years off in between, took and passed my CG tests as has my wife. I don't drink or operate recklessly.
So that settles that. The Original poster was in a Piss Ars little 18 outboard boat, which drafts less than the sail boats, which go about 3 feet.

Absolutely wrong, with an sense of entitlement, and poor boat handling skills.
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Old 08-18-2016, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Time Machine View Post
So that settles that. The Original poster was in a Piss Ars little 18 outboard boat, which drafts less than the sail boats, which go about 3 feet.

Absolutely wrong, with an sense of entitlement, and poor boat handling skills.
I guess you had to be there, also you have a limited imagination and ability to comprehend.
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:14 PM
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some of the kids may be younger than 9. Our yacht club puts them in boats alone at an early age, especially the 8ft optis.
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by YFMF View Post
There is a huge difference between a kid losing control or making a tactical error and someone cutting you off on purpose.
To lighten the mood a little, here's an example of newbies and tactical errors:

Pensacola ICW just west of the Pass bottle necks in order to pass an island to the south, with the Navy YC to the north. They rent kayaks to people.

We watched a group of 8 guys on kayaks learning the ropes within that narrow channel, and they were having fun. Oh-Oh, a big horn from a string of barges about half a mile away...and the kayaks didn't seem to notice. More horn, more hanging in the channel, until somebody finally yelled out to them to GTFOOT, and all the learning went into the drink as two guys over-turned while trying to beat feet to shore.

Now there were two guys in the water and a couple hundred yards between them and a WALL of steel; horn blowing constantly. Luckily, two other kayakers got them on board and paddled to safety, leaving the empty kayaks in the channel.

Hard to imagine what would have happened, but the outcome would have been death. The two kayaks surfaced a 100 yards farther east, the worse for wear.

This story is about being a newbie and paying attention to danger...and only those that know these things can teach them. The YC needs to teach kids about dangers.
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:48 PM
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As a longtime boater, the owner operator of a mid-size sporty, and a yacht club member with three young sailors maybe I can provide some perspective.

These kids are 8-17, they sail predominantly in Optimist dinghies which draw 3' with the daggerboard down. Most of the programs run 8-weeks and each year they spend 200+ hours on the water in addition to regattas, safety briefings and classroom education.

The instructors are college-aged, typically competitive sailors attending the various US military academies as well as other noted universities and academies both here and abroad. My oldest at 17 years old has over 2500 hours in sailing vessels and over 1000 operating motor vessels for recreation and as a junior instructor. These programs are typically not day-camps with sailboats.

While it is possible, I find it highly improbable that the instructors or young sailors were trying to make a statement in tacking across the channel in front of a powerboat.

The OP as the give way vessel acted correctly in avoiding a collision. As with any group of people or kids it is most likely the sailor may be a novice and/or was more focused in other things (not keeping adequate watch) and maybe not used to crossing the channel. A call to the club or pointing out to the instructor in the coach boats with your concerns about safety would be welcomed, at least at my club which is on the Long Island Sound.

I've met hundreds of these kids, for the most part they love the water, come from families with boating history and to best of my knowledge none have grown up looking to cut off powerboaters or wanting to invade Poland.
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Old 08-18-2016, 05:13 PM
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The difference between a generality ("I've met hundreds....") and the OP is that it only takes one sour grape to spoil the wine. The OP is about that one sour grape that he encountered.
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:46 PM
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Does your state have a minimum age for somebody to operate? If so would they require a certificat until a certain age? Or is that just for motorized? Regardless of an individual sailboat having the right of way, it seems like this being organized training. Likely under an instructors guidance of sorts. They should be required some sort of permitting if they are gonna be operating in a high traffic area. Wouldn't professional organized racers be required to have permits? Why wouldnt a sailing school? There's likely a cash transaction and high risk involved.
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:07 PM
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My last paragraph was an attempt at sarcasm, insert "generally" in place of "for the most part". Again, the sailor who passed in front causing a dangerous condition was on average probably 10-11 years old and likely not trying to exploit a "right-of-way" blow boat agenda but I'm sure some of these kids also grow up to be aholes.

With regard to boating laws in NY state (where I and my brood boats), there's no minimum age/education requirement for sailing (most clubs and governing bodies set it at 9 for the sailing programs). After a guy put 34 people on his 34 Silverton flybridge to see fireworks in 2012 and capsized killing two children, one county passed a law requiring a minimum boater safety course standard which has been superseded by a state law requiring a safe boating cert for all motorboat operators born after 5/1/96. The kids in my club's sailing program take a safe boating course at 12 or 13 that is both classroom and on the water. The NY State requirement can be met through an online course with no practical experience.

Everything is a situation. I agree the instructors should have kept the kids clear of the channel, the sailor who tacked in front of the OP should be taught better situational awareness. I guess he'll either learn or (hopefully not) get run over. There was just an adult last weekend in an 8' outboard inflatable run over and killed in the Great South Bay under unclear circumstances crossing a channel.

Separate topic but I'm on the fence regarding licensing. It would be great if everyone on the water knew the COLREGS and basic stand-on/give-way rules but I don't think it would completely remove the idiot factor we all see every time we are out.
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:53 PM
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Wow. Perhaps you'd prefer they were sitting at home getting fat watching TV, or maybe boosting cars?

I had a friend once who's life was all about fishing, but whenever he fished around kids, he was always a cranky dick; pissing and moaning about everything they did wrong and ruined his fishing day.

He's not a friend anymore, and you're a cranky dick. See what I did there?
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Old 08-19-2016, 04:08 AM
  #53  
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This here is some funny stuff------.
You treat sailors like it's a disease or addiction (For some it is) or they are female.
Some of these young sailors grow up to be Olympic sailors, LYC has two in the Olympics right now.
Some grow up to serve our country. I personally know one young lady who is on the bridge of a destroyer. (I can find out what position) her father is a member of this site. (And an accomplished sailer/ (might be Olympian too) fisherman.
That young lady went to Annapolis, she started out on Opti's. I believe her older sister went to the Olympics, she started out on Opti's.
Anyway, point is, they have to start somewhere, and at this young age, all they can do is keep their head on.
Cut them some slack, some of them are protecting your a--.
This sailor verses powerboater is crap.

Now, let's talk tennis, shall we?

PS: Look at the telltell (Colored tape) at the top of the mast (Tube that holds the sail (white cloth) up), if it is GREEN, stay AWAY, they REALLY don't know the (any) Rules of the Road.
PSS: Disclaimer; I am not a closet sailor, (although I do committee work for the Club). I do know how to sail however.

Last edited by Parker Yacht; 08-19-2016 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 08-19-2016, 05:40 AM
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OP, hold onto this story for a few weeks, and repost, this time using "30 year old" in place of "kid." I would bet the response will be quite different. Lord knows nobody is allowed to say anything that would hurt the feelings of a precious snowflake.
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Old 08-19-2016, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bamaboy473 View Post
The difference between a generality ("I've met hundreds....") and the OP is that it only takes one sour grape to spoil the wine. The OP is about that one sour grape that he encountered.
No, the OP is that sour grape.
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Old 08-19-2016, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
and what is the protocol for when they have no intention of passing through........just want to hang out in the channel and zig back and forth, up and down the channel. Do the tender snowflakes with the right of way then have the defacto "right to the channel" until a tug comes along?
Yes, they have every right to sail in the channel. Are you aware of a reg to the contrary?
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by YFMF View Post
Wow! I almost can't believe some of the replies to this thread, but then I remembered it's THT.

We were in an 18' DC, the sail boats are very visible as well as I always expect them to be running in the area they were from prior experience. When 300 yards away I slowed my boat to point out the sail boaters to my 6 and 8 yr olds and asked if they thought they'd enjoy doing something like that. (their answer was a collective no), we continued at a no wake speed as we would soon be entering the zone anyway.

These sail boats must draft every bit of 6" perhaps 1 ft or so if they have a keel. They zip around a large area the size of several football fields on either side of the channel, in all my years I've never seen or encountered any one of them pull what this kid did. It was quite deliberate and without cause.

In the case of others anytime we would get "close" I'd drop the boat into neutral and back into drive as needed to get through the school/swarm. These kids were having fun and learning. I'm pretty much referring to one or two kids that seemed to be acting aggressively.

You don't dart out into traffic, period, right of way or not. Part of being a good seaman/sailor is being responsible and doing the right thing. As stated by another member here, there was no reason the student couldn't wait 30' for me to pass and then make his turn.

There is a huge difference between a kid losing control or making a tactical error and someone cutting you off on purpose. When making a mistake a natural reaction is to have the look of I'm sorry on ones face, this kid had the look of, "that's right, what are you going to do about it?" on his face, a real snoot nose.
Thanks for those that supported me, be safe on the water.

PS I've been boating since I was 5 with my dad, 13 on my own with a few years off in between, took and passed my CG tests as has my wife. I don't drink or operate recklessly.
You should get in touch with the Yacht Club.
Spoilled kids may be in any activity. It´s not the sailing boat, just a couple of stupid kids.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Jersus View Post
Yes, they have every right to sail in the channel. Are you aware of a reg to the contrary?
No, and that was my point exactly. Many posters saying that he should have stopped short of the channel, where they were sailing back and forth (in other words, never getting out of it), for the purpose of giving them plenty of room to make any maneuver that they may need to make to continue sailing. If they are in the channel, and "may need" the entire channel to safely make their moves, they have in essence have claimed it as their own (probably without even knowing it). I know/agree with standing down to allow sailing vessels to maneuver, but to go so far as to grant them the exclusive access to entire bodies of water because they might "need" it is very much reading way too deep into the letter of the law, rather than the spirit. Also very bad judgment on the part of the school to hold lessons in such an area. Not suggesting that they should be banned from the channel or anything, just that back and fort in the channel is far from an appropriate place to hold sailing school. Use the channel to traverse to more appropriate water so that the channel can be used as designed........by all boaters.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:23 AM
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A boat in this area often, many hundreds of times over the years, have never had 1 incident like this. I admire the kids and the school enough to want my kids to join (but can not), 1 little prick cuts me off within 5 feet of my bow and somehow some of you think I'm wrong. Laughable.

Suppose you tell me what I should have done differently, I'm heading north at 5 mph or less, sailboat heading south, both in narrow part of channel. The sailboat is not tacking but moving along at a faster pace then I am straight and true, out of no where he cuts hard to port/his left and comes within 5 feet of me. I throw the boat in neutral and look at the kid as he passes in front of me, he glares at me.
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Old 08-19-2016, 11:46 AM
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Occasionally I fish out of Redwood City ( San Francisco Bay. ) When coming back to the ramp in the afternoon the whole channel is filled with those little sunfish sailboats. I find it very frustrating trying to get through this wall of sailboats with out getting in any bodies way. I don't understand why they are allowed to clog up a navigation channel in this way but I accept it. What really gets me is the scullers that are out in the morning. There will be groups of them, spread out all over the channel all on different tacks. God forbid you throw a wake ( This is not a no wake zone ) because one of their "coaches" will motor up to you & cuss you because your making a wake. ( again this is not a no wake zone ) My thought is if your vessel can't take the wake thrown by a 14" tinny then maybe they should find a lake to paddle on.
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