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Garage /Shed build thread

Old 05-23-2016, 04:51 PM
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Ok, looking for ideas, suggestions, tips and experience doing this. My first time doing something like this and would appreciate any suggestions. Tell me what I'm doing wrong - 'cause I really don't know. Suggestions for better layout? Use of space?

Building a metal building in the back yard to store boats, campers, trailers out of the weather. Will also be used as a workshop / tool storage.

50' x 50' metal building with 16" eve height. 3, 12' x ~16' roll up doors. 1 x regular entry door - not pictured because I really haven't figured out where yet. Thinking under the lean-to at the front corner.

14' x 50' metal covered lean-to with 12' wide concrete slab.

Want plumbing in the slab for a bathroom but most likely will add that later when I have mo money.

The boat with twins is my current offshore boat. The line behind it is a possible upsize - the largest boat I can see my self in in this lifetime.

The truck drawn in is my current crew cab 3/4 ton SWB. Planning to use this space for tinkering / repair /maintenance, Truck won't stay there, just shown for scale.

The small boat is my current marsh boat. Can't see it getting any bigger even if I do replace it.

Question #1. Since the building is square, I can situate it however I want. Was thinking I wanted the front (roll up doors) to be the non-gabled end but thinking now that the lean-to would work better if I had the gabled side up front.

And many thanks for any help - only got one shot at this and I'm a virgin.

First draft of layout:

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Old 05-23-2016, 05:07 PM
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I like to layout in 4 foot increments. Most building material works better.........
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:08 PM
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Yeah, I would gable over doors and then extend roof down for carport on side. You will also eliminate a ton of rain water dumping in your driveway area this way.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:12 PM
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Go here to the "projects" forum.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/index.php
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:25 PM
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Good point on 4'. Will ask metal supplier if it makes a difference.

More questions.

Plan to have roof insulated. In south Louisiana - any point to spending money to insulate the walls?

I have a giant wall fan that is ancient, built of steel, is about 4' x 4" box and weighs a ton. Thinking on using it - maybe side wall closest to offshore boat. Blow out or in?

Fiberglass "sunlight panels" in roof? Any cons to this?
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:37 PM
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We did something very similar to what you have going on...however we just use the big garage for my shop and cars and trucks!

Neither of my last two boats would fit as our roll up doors were 10X10. I need 12' clearance for height..

60 X 40 building from Advantage Steel Bldg's out of Little Rock, Ak

Added the roof over a few years later when a buddy of mine was able to get me some 16' aluminum roof pans. This was important. I staked out a roof over with 12' pans and could not get my boat and trailer between the building and the support posts. My boat has a 9'8" beam..

http://www.thehulltruth.com/dockside...ight=boat+shed
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:39 PM
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I would go 14'x14' on the 2 boat doors. Makes backing in so much easier. Plus you won't have to remember to put your gps antenna down on the hard top of the big boat. The doors are more expensive but if you can tow it down the road you can back it in the barn.

Point the fan out the opposite side from the roll ups, that way it is pulling the hot air out through the roll ups. Put insulation in roof and at least the east and west sides unless you have trees blocking the sides.
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by triumphrick View Post
We did something very similar to what you have going on...however we just use the big garage for my shop and cars and trucks!

Neither of my last two boats would fit as our roll up doors were 10X10. I need 12' clearance for height..

60 X 40 building from Advantage Steel Bldg's out of Little Rock, Ak

Added the roof over a few years later when a buddy of mine was able to get me some 16' aluminum roof pans. This was important. I staked out a roof over with 12' pans and could not get my boat and trailer between the building and the support posts. My boat has a 9'8" beam..

http://www.thehulltruth.com/dockside...ight=boat+shed

Not understanding here. You had a 12' wide spot and couldn't get a 10' boat in? Problem with backing angle? Sorry, not following. My camper and cargo trailer are 96" wide. The offshore is 8'10" and the marsh boat trailer is simply illegal at about 9+' at the fenders.

Looks nice!! Did you assemble the building yourself? Not sure I'm up for that. At first I just assumed I would but the more I think about it, the lazier I get.

Last edited by Back-in-Black; 05-23-2016 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:19 PM
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Futch13. All the doors will be around eve height - which is 16'. Should clear the radar with plenty to spare. I haven't measured height since I put a new trailer under the boat but on the old trailer I could just barely get in a 12' high door if someone was in the boat holding the door up as high as it would go.

14' wide? Hmmm, Will have to look at that and price it.

Excellent idea on east & west insulation!! probably right on fan too!!
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TheRealMacGyver View Post
Yeah, I would gable over doors and then extend roof down for carport on side. You will also eliminate a ton of rain water dumping in your driveway area this way.
makes a lot of sense and kind of what I was thinking too. Was also thinking in and out of doors with gables on sides might be kinda wet!
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:07 PM
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I got a 14x14 door in mine and when I had a 28 mckee it would not have made it under a 12' with everything down,

I would add the skylights, was talked into them and now glad to have them, make sure you get insulated sky lights or it will look like the rain forest in your building,

I am not sure what you call the metal channeling that is on the sides of the building that you screw the siding into, but have them turn the lip or L down on the inside of the building, gives you a much better shelf.

My building is 36x50 and I spend all my time out there. I plan on relocating and I am going to build pretty much the same building but I plan on taking 16' of it and make it my house/shop.
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Old 05-24-2016, 04:57 AM
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Love this, should be bad ass, keep us updated. If you have room maybe close in one area with AC, you can do you your rigging/man cave/store your rodsnreels. I always like the idea of storing as must of my things in controlled environment.
good luck
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Old 05-24-2016, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by TheRealMacGyver View Post
Yeah, I would gable over doors and then extend roof down for carport on side. You will also eliminate a ton of rain water dumping in your driveway area this way.
Makes sense - thanks!
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Old 05-24-2016, 05:34 AM
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I built a 40x60x16 few years ago.

I went with 14x14 doors with electric motors on the gable end. That's the way to go, at least for the door for your truck.

14 tall door is all you need, nothing taller can get down the road legally. 12 wide is OK, but 14 is better!

Have you priced out a 50x60 instead of lean to, sometimes it isn't that big of a difference and looks better (subjective).

Before you pour your slab run conduit from the area where your electric panel is to all the places you think you might want electric one day.

Plumbing in slab, run it now even if you just stub it out to use later.

Insulate it.
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Old 05-24-2016, 05:37 AM
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What construction technique? If using pole barn technique, a lot of the layout depends on the roof loads, pole spacing, etc (often you'll see the dimensions in exact multiples of 8' and 3', one for pole spacing and the other for siding panel size). Be sure to build in a 12" roof overhang on all walls. People often cheap out on that, and it's kind of important.

While I prefer pole barn technique for these types of buildings (have done 4-5), if you pour a concrete floor in there, the cost heads up and may be in the range of just doing a stick-frame on slab with thickened edges. So run the numbers both ways. If you're planning on a gravel floor, then the pole barn technique wins out easily.

Here's an example of pole barn frame before siding went on.
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Old 05-24-2016, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tam View Post
Love this, should be bad ass, keep us updated. If you have room maybe close in one area with AC, you can do you your rigging/man cave/store your rodsnreels. I always like the idea of storing as must of my things in controlled environment.
good luck
Now that would be cool. I'll put that on the future upgrades list because this is already stretching my wallet beyond all recognition! The building and the concrete are bad enough but this thing is going in the very back of my back yard. The dirt work required to build up the pad, fill in other low spots in the back yard, bridge the ditch in the front yard so dump trucks and concrete trucks don't destroy my asphalt driveway and extend my driveway another ~200', and put a "parking pad" in front of the shop (need a place to turn trailers around so I don't have to back them down a 500' driveway) is probably already outside my ability to pay for right now! Almost certainly going to have to extend the drive with gravel and come back with asphalt in a year or 3. And I hate gravel in the yard. It doesn't play nice with the mower.

I want to get all the good ideas and such now in the planning stage even if I can't pay for them yet so it can be part of the original plans and it can be built "ready for upgrades", etc.



Done Deals and s219: Concrete floor and slab extending out under lean-to. All steel construction. Haven't got into the fine details yet but pretty sure it can be built "clear span" with no support members except on the walls. From preliminary "guesstimates", it looks like the concrete is going to cost almost as much as the steel!

Done deals - excellent point on conduit! I didn't really think about that as I figured I'd just add conduit as needed and run it up / along the walls attaching it to the insides of the pearlings and such. Much easier and neater to go underground! Brings up another idea too. Iron pipe for compressed air stubbed up in various places so I don't have to run those on the walls either.

Plumbing is a must too and will be incorporated into the slab, just don't know where yet. Definitely will have a toilet and sink. A shower would be really high falluttin'!

Will check price on 50 x 60 but it may put it out of my range - it's already VERY tight (trying to do this with the cash in my piggy bank -really don't want to borrow).

When I get home tonight, I will modify the drawing for 14' wide doors and 14' wide lean to. I was originally thinking 14' high doors too but a friend talked me into 16'. Will have to check price diff. I really think the only advantage to 16' doors would be getting more air in on those hot south LA summer days.

In the "bay" where the truck is shown, I really want the space to add a 2 post car lift later. I do most of my own auto maintenance and that would really be nice... besides, I may have to start a mechanic shop to pay for this beast!!

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Old 05-24-2016, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by s219 View Post
What construction technique? If using pole barn technique, a lot of the layout depends on the roof loads, pole spacing, etc (often you'll see the dimensions in exact multiples of 8' and 3', one for pole spacing and the other for siding panel size). Be sure to build in a 12" roof overhang on all walls. People often cheap out on that, and it's kind of important.

While I prefer pole barn technique for these types of buildings (have done 4-5), if you pour a concrete floor in there, the cost heads up and may be in the range of just doing a stick-frame on slab with thickened edges. So run the numbers both ways. If you're planning on a gravel floor, then the pole barn technique wins out easily.

Here's an example of pole barn frame before siding went on.
That's really nice and what I was thinking of building. Do you have more detailed plans and a rough idea on price. Pm me if you want. Awesome!
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:45 AM
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Another question. Anyone ever used polycarbonate roll up doors? Saw this mention at the link My Gal posted. They are the light weight, "plastic" roll ups that you see a lot in the U-store & lock places.

Pros? Cons?
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:54 AM
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B n B, you haven't shown the lay of your land & where/how this building will be situated

¿ would you have the luxury of driving around the back of the building(mine is drive thru for the big boat & gooseneck camper and the ability to get the tractor/front end loader in front of &/or behind stuff)

¿ where is the prevailing wind from(face the front into the wind for warm weather ventilation)

¿ have you considered flow thru ventilation(overhead door in the rear or vent fans front & rear)

¿ have you considered roof slope(2x12 is too flat, i went 3x12 for better drainage & less leakage)

¿ have you factored in closable weatherproof roof vents along the peak

¿ have you considered having a 20' wide lean 2, it would provide head in parking for many items multiplying your storage space(i use 20' shipping container under mine which created stalls for parking smaller boats, implements & the tractor)

13'6" is max legal height for over the road so 14' tall doors should suffice

12' vs 14' wide depends on your backing ability

102" is max legal width so 12' wide is the way i went

4' spacing is good for wooden structures, not so critical w/ metal

while on the subject of 4', have your walk door a commercial 4' wide, you will thank me for that later(1 in the front & 1 in the back, keyed alike)

you mentioned a 4-post lift but didn't mention a lifting beam across the center of the space

i had my center cross beam made from I-beam and even put a horizontal I-beam cross brace on it to use w/ a traveler for lifting toys(spelled B-O-A-T-S) off trailers for bottom work

while on this point i should mention my building has 14' high clearance throughout w/ 16' side walls like you propose

14' doors will go up above my 14' line w/ the 16' walls

good idea for stubbing out for future plumbing needs & don't forget a dump station for pumping the big boat's holding tank out

the electrical is another issue, you can't have too many outlets inside(6' apart) and you need at least 3 under the lean 2

at least 3 good light sources under the lean 2 and bunches of lights inside...

several electrical outlets under the lean 2 for chargers, etc...

220v outlets in the front, rear, on the sides & under the lean 2(welder, compressor, etc...)

additional/separate isolated circuit in the proposed "office" area for future computer needs

¿ did i mention LOTSA LIGHTS

one light switch to provide minimal light to the whole of the inside & separate switches for WELL LIGHTED work zones

no overhead power lines in front of the building or around the building if you can drive around it

once inside the building my electrician recommended going overhead with the conduit to prevent any water intrusion/pooling in upturned conduit under the slab(same price either way)

power outlets were mounted on the face of the Z-perlins which had the inner flange turned down for this purpose & to provide the above mentioned shelf

my barn has a 10' front porch w/ a 12' cover which is really handy for dirty work that ends up needing to be washed down(i forgot to include an apron which was a BIG MISTAKE)

my water supply has 2 shut offs, 1 out front before everything then a T off for a frost proof exterior faucet and the 2nd shut off after the T to shut off the building in bad weather

electrical power & water enter the building from opposite sides for obvious reasons

when having the slab poured have them drop the seats/thresh holds for the overhead doors set down 1 1/2" to keep rain from running under them(all exposed doors w/o overhangs, not just lips, to protect them) your overhead door company will furnish you w/ the specs for this application

i realize my thoughts bounce butt they all come from having designed, had built & worked in several shops w/ the current barn having been built on a budget w/ the philosophy of getting everything possible set in place for improvements/mods being done as the fund$ became available

my barn ended up being 30' wide x 50' deep(wish i had gone 40' wide x 60' deep) plus a 20' wide lean 2 down both 50' walls

my lowest clearance is 10' under the lean 2 eves clears the shipping containers that are stuck in from the outside creating 20' deep stalls

¿ DID I MENTION LOTSA LIGHTS

my lean 2's are still waiting for the concrete pads under them(some stuff just has to sit on pallets to stay out of the dirt) the re-bar stubs are just under the surface of the dirt

and my front porch is still waiting on that apron that i didn't think of in time

GOOD LUCK W/ YOUR PLANNING/PROJECT

sw
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Old 05-24-2016, 08:56 AM
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Are you planning on spread/shallow footings or a slab with grade beam? Probably not an issue but for some of the maintenance shops we have done separating the foundation from the slab made future slab replacement/repairs a non structural issue.

Would you ever want a gantry crane? If so then you will need the columns sized now even if not constructed.

Definitely a bathroom and plumbing for a future shower would be a good idea.

You don't show side walk through doors, will you have an entrance to use so as not to have open up an entire bay to enter? A door through to the lean-to would be nice also when working on something. I did not and have to walk around to grab tools and it gets annoying.

I would consider putting the air compressor in the lean-to to keep the noise out of the shop and just plumb it to several locations. I would reconsider putting it in the ground also. Overhead can be relocated at anytime and draining it of any moisture is a lot easier.

Similar with overhead outlets and drop cords. What I plan on now always seems to need a little tweaking once I start using it and if it is in the slab it is final.

A door on the back would give you a nice through draft to keep it cool. I have a traditional barn looking shop with a drop on either side and a large door at either end. Opening just one end can be hot and stagnant in the summer but opening both gives it a nice cool breeze.

Are you familiar with stack doors? http://www.hortonstackdoor.com/stackdoor.htm No vertical clearance issues but they will take up a little width but they have been very sturdy and reliable.

Also with a 16 ft eave, what is the drop of the roof? What will the clearance on the lean-to be?

Definitely insulate the roof but with open bays the walls will not matter much. You installing ridge vents? The fiberglass panels tend to degrade overtime but do let some light in.

Do you plan on heating this in the winter?

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