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New Car Bargaining

Old 02-09-2006, 09:02 AM
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Default New Car Bargaining

I bought my 1st new car in 1965. A V/W bug. $1695, no bargaining - take it or leave it. I like that. Today, you gird for battle, armed to the teeth with numbers.

The general rule is that you don't bargain down from the sticker price, you bargain up from the invoice price. But, the question comes down to what's fair for both sides? Invoice plus 1%,2%,3%????

Anyone have some advise that worked for you? I'm in basic training now getting ready for the great contest of wills and not looking forward to it.
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

Oh, Charlie...Charlie...Charlie....








RUN the other way~!!!!

Take it from the wife of a vehicle addict ~ it just ain't worth it!!!



On a more serious note - if where you work has a credit union - go in and ask for an "X Plan". (I know that's what it's called if purchasing a Ford - not sure about other makes, but I DO know they have them) Anyway - this IS the price - just like back in 1965 and makes life a WHOLE lot easier~


Good luck to ya and let us know how it goes!
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:49 AM
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This is MY "A" game plan........

I don't get this part, "what's fair for both sides"???? Do you honestly believe they want to be fair to you???? Heck no, they want every last dime you’ve got.......they’ll even give you credit to buy the vehicle.

Here are some thoughts to keep in mind:

- IMPO people loose sight of the big picture, you are but "ONE" person buying but "ONE" vehicle.....the dealer sells hundreds if not thousands of vehicles per year. Some customers will get a deal on their new vehicle, whereas others will get raked over the coals.
- I'm not saying "all" manufacture's dealerships pull this one, but I do know of some doing this one: The manufacture incorporates the cost of delivery into the cost of the vehicle to the dealer, the dealer in turn "ADDS" the cost of delivery to the sticker price of the vehicle. So in turn the dealer is billing the customer twice for the same delivery costs. So how much is that, 12-15 hundred bucks?
- For every vehicle the dealership sells they get a kick back from the manufacture. Depending on the vehicle the dealership sells those figures can be as high as 3.8k (that's what I know of).....so there’s another few thousand dollars.
- At the beginning of the year the dealership and the manufacture sits down and looks at the numbers. The dealer forecasts their years sales, if the dealership meets those numbers the manufacture kicks in bonus money.....I have heard that the bonus moneys can be on a sliding scale upwards.....potentially more profits - a smart buyer will know how to use this in there favor.
- Have you ever sat down and considered the costs to PDI a vehicle? Oh sure the dealership charges you several hundred bucks, but what is it costing him? There's more profit of a couple of hundred dollars.
- Did you know that basically "all" new vehicle divisions of dealerships run at a lose, well they do. The dealership survives because of service and parts. The new and used vehicle division of most any dealership is a right off to the dealership against the profits made from the parts and service dept. Soooooo, how much money is that dealership going to make off of you down the road???? Thousands!!!!!!!!!!!!

So even if the dealership sells you a vehicle for cost/ invoice price less the cost of the double dipping shipping costs, the dealership is "still" looking at making several thousand profit up front off of the sale and thousands more over the years through parts and service. So who's being fair? All I know is “I'm” not the one living in the big white house up on the hill!

Here are a few other thoughts to keep in mind:

- Practice honing your skills at dealerships outside your area, that way you be equipped to bring the big bat to a dog fight.
- Remember time is money. It is common practice for a salesperson to want to yak it up, remember time is money. I am in “firm” belief a vehicle can be sold/ purchased in under 15 minutes.....time is money, so know what you want and how you want to go about getting it!
- The salesperson is going to cry about there is no money in it for them if they sell you a vehicle for cost, hogwash. I’ve heard they’ll still pull a minimal of a hundred bucks from the dealership......15 minutes worth of work for a hundred bucks, heck I don’t make $400.00 an hour.
- Remember time is money....I don’t want to know about the salesperson’s dog, cottage, kids or the football game. The quicker you can cut this particular salesperson time involved with your sale the sooner they can pounce on the next person that walks in through the door. Remember time is money, I’ll guarantee you, “they” don’t loose sight of that fact!

Another few points to keep in mind:

- When you walk into a showroom they don’t know you from Adam. “ Know” you are food to the salesperson/ shark that is looking at you. Know the second you walk through that door they are putting on their game face and zoning into their game plan. You are food and they are hungry!
- Don’t go shopping for a vehicle looking like money if you want a deal. Take your diamond rings off, change out your Rolex watch for a cheapie, put on an old pair of shoes, use an old wallet and don’t wear a suit or suit jacket.......you don’t want to look like money if you want that deal.
- Salespeople are trained to reel you into “their” game plan, it is your job to get them outside their comfort zone and reel them into “your” game plan. Remember to be the harder nut and don’t be embarrassed to use the broken record technic.
- The second you walk through that door your sole objective is to get “them” to “want” to help “you” out. Remember, “your” game plan, not theirs!

So if you can get all your ducks in a row, you too should be able to buy your next vehicle at cost, as I did.....I’ve now bought three of them over the years this way “for cost” - you just need to be a tougher nut then they are without being a jerkoff and show them how it is profitable to sell you a vehicle at cost.

I also have another list of pointers, but if I were to tell you those, well I’d just have to kill you.
Good luck and remember, any idiot can spend his money freely
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

farmerjane - 2/9/2006 11:11 AM

- go in and ask for an "X Plan". (I know that's what it's called if purchasing a Ford - not sure about other makes, but I DO know they have them)
Unless things are different in the States as to Canada, the Ford "Z" plan is where a "retired" employee can buy a Ford at $100 below cost. An "A" plan is a benefit where current employees can buy Fords at $100 below costs.

And yes FJ the other manufactures have them as well, just some are not as good as others.
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Old 02-09-2006, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

Invoice is not really their cost.

If MSRP of a new car is $33,295.... and "Invoice" is say $30,300.... $30,300 is not their cost!

Dealer holdback is 3% MSRP (3% x 33,295 = $998 in this example) , which means that their real cost is AT MOST $29,302. But the dealer has costs, salaries, etc.... I know that.

My last 3 cars I have bought at or below dealer "Invoice" before rebates.

And make them deduct that pesky $195 scam window etching fee as well.
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

You can get the dealers invoice price from edmunds.com



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Old 02-09-2006, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

Key is to not look at auto dealers like boat dealers. What is fair is the rock bottom lowest price they'll let you give them for you to walk out the door w/ a car. A boat dealer, sometimes, you have to leave a little on the table to make sure you will get good service later down the road. A car dealer, like was said earlier, makes almost all his money on service (warranty), parts and financing/leasing. For every one person like you who talks them down to penny's over invoice, they'll have 10 people who they make a few grand on. Go in knowing what is the top dollar that is "fair" for you. Do not worry about what is "fair" for the dealer.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:58 PM
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Default RE: New Car Bargaining

Thanks to all for some good comments. One thing that I have going for me is that the salesman and owners go to my church and this will be the 2nd car I'm buying from them. I know that they won't pluck out my eyeballs, but they also are not going to let me know their rock bottom price. I have go prepared.

I called the Consumer Union car buying service this morning and bought ($12) their report that shows the dealer's "real" price, which is less than the invoice. Neither Kelley blue book or NADA had that information.

The difference between the base price and invoice is $650. The difference between invoice and MSRP on options is 20-25%. Now I must decide upon the % above base on the car and on the options.

Farmerjane, good info, but I'm retired. Have to spend all my time fishing now, but as the saying goes - somebody has to.
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Old 02-09-2006, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

The last 3 cars I have bought, I could not find a dealer that would match carsdirect.com. I went to 3 different dealers for each purchase and ended up using carsdirect because they could not even come within a couple of hundred dollars of a comparably equiped vehicle.

I've bought twice from carsdirect and no problems, has anyone else tried it?
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Old 02-09-2006, 03:23 PM
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That's how I bought my last 2 cars... I had a carsdirect print out, a kbb trade-in value print out, a new car interest rate print out, and a payment calculator with a monthly payment on it. I dropped it in front of the dealer and said he has 10 minutes to match all these numbers or else I'm out the door. Work both times.
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Old 02-09-2006, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

I went in armed with KBB.com and edmunds.com information (both were very similar). I waited about an hour while the salesman dealt with someone else (I am patient, and had the time. Watched ESPN on their HD TV!). When I finally got to see him, I acted pissed, told him an hour ago I would have taken these numbers, but now I want something better. They put another $500 on my trade in. Good enough for me.
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Old 02-09-2006, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

Charlie Have you ever met a poor car dealer didn't think so
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Old 02-09-2006, 04:16 PM
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If not financing through dealer. Reasearch Edmunds, KBB, etc., and go to dealership with a bank check filled out. Do not talk to a salesman. Only deal with sales manager.
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Old 02-09-2006, 04:28 PM
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That works too. I have a client who bought a Porsche like that. He showed him the check, said take it or leave it. He took it.
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Old 02-09-2006, 07:11 PM
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paulyjsob - 2/9/2006 4:23 PM

That's how I bought my last 2 cars... I had a carsdirect print out, a kbb trade-in value print out, a new car interest rate print out, and a payment calculator with a monthly payment on it. I dropped it in front of the dealer and said he has 10 minutes to match all these numbers or else I'm out the door. Work both times.
I bought a new motorcycle that way.....I slipped into a motorcycle shop owner's office once (didn't sit down), slide him my business card and said, "if you want to sell the bike in the showroom window my price is on the back of my business card, give me a call. Well I didn't even get half way down the hall before he called me back.
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

parkersal - 2/9/2006 11:07 AM

Invoice is not really their cost.

If MSRP of a new car is $33,295.... and "Invoice" is say $30,300.... $30,300 is not their cost!

Dealer holdback is 3% MSRP (3% x 33,295 = $998 in this example) , which means that their real cost is AT MOST $29,302. But the dealer has costs, salaries, etc.... I know that.

My last 3 cars I have bought at or below dealer "Invoice" before rebates.

And make them deduct that pesky $195 scam window etching fee as well.
To add to that there may be factory rebates or dealer cash also. I sell commercial trucks and there is always money to be had from the factory. The amount corresponds with how new the vehicle is, i.e. if it is a brand spanking new model for the year there is not much, but as the year goes along, the mfg tosses more money to the dealers.
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Old 02-10-2006, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

I use the carsdirect.com site all the time, granted its mostly just for dreaming...

It's not necessarily the best price you can get, if you are really prepared and determined, but it does give you a good idea of what sort of standard discounts are out there. As a rule, I would think you should never pay more than what the carsdirect.com site will give you as a price.

My 1.8 cents (that's below my 2 cents invoice price!!)

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Old 02-10-2006, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

I work for a large organization that gets "supplier" pricing from all the major automakers...in most cases its 3-4% above what the employees can purchase the vehicle for. Typically, this works out to $800-$1000 below invoice. Also, supplier pricing (for GM at least) caps the "Doc Fees" etc...at $75 regardless of what they tell you...I had to go round and round with the dealer on this one but, its in writing on the website.

The key is not to become emotionally involved, and be prepared to walk. When I bought the Denali, I walked out of the dealership not once, not twice, but 3 times. All 3 times they called me the next day and sweetened the deal by giving me more on my trade.

If you do your research, you will have a pretty good idea of what the vehicle should cost...and keep at it...you will get there eventually.
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Old 02-10-2006, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: New Car Bargaining

two small pieces of advice from a car biz guy on the factory side:
1. Do print out your euqifax credit score before you go in - if you're going to finance, and have better than a 700 they'll know you're serious and can "get done" as we call it.
2. Do try and negotaite the deal on the last day of the month for a car in stock. There is tremendous pressure to get it all done on that day. Most mfr's end their month on the last working day of the month.
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Old 02-10-2006, 05:28 PM
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Glen E - 2/10/2006 4:01 PM


2. Do try and negotaite the deal on the last day of the month for a car in stock. There is tremendous pressure to get it all done on that day. Most mfr's end their month on the last working day of the month.
Appreciate the wealth of information offered by everyone. I have decided on a price that I will offer. It is in the ball park with Cardirect. The only thing left is for my wife to decide on a color ( that's her department). We will go to Savannah next week to a large dealer to look at colors. Then, I will wait until the last week of the month as suggested by several of you.

Many thanks to all of you.
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