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Old 11-24-2015, 04:32 AM
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Question People with younger kids...

Elementary school age...

What are you guys doing with this Common Core math crap. I just watched my son, who is extremely strong in math - (can add double and triple digits in his head)... struggle with adding two simple numbers with this "dot and bar" method. Yet this is who the teacher wants him to do it.

I just told him to do it her way, but use the "other" way to check his work. Which is going to absolutely KILL him on timed tests.

So? What the frick do I do, and what did you do?
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:40 AM
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Home school. If I had kids in this era of educational stupidity I would yank him in a heartbeat. But that's me talking without being in your shoes. But I honestly have no answer for this crap.
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:44 AM
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Treat it as a challenge for him to learn a new way of doing things. A different language of math.
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Dreamer View Post
Treat it as a challenge for him to learn a new way of doing things. A different language of math.
I actually sort of like that as an answer at face-value. However, it definitely doesn't build his confidence level of the skill. Especially when he already knows the answer.

However, I think I'll try that spin on it. LOL.
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:09 AM
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My kids go to private school so theoretically we are immune from CC mandates. But... our school adopts a CC math curriculum and I have to say I like it. It is harder - in some cases MUCH harder - and forces kids to think about the same types of problems in different ways.

http://excelined.org/common-core-too...-expectations/

You asked so I'll give you the answer from my perspective: stop projecting your politics and math phobias on your kids and tell them to buck up and adapt - sort of like life.

If you are against CC then in the longer term vote for politicians who would do away with it.
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:10 AM
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I feel your pain Pete, I'll be in your shoes very shortly. It's very concerning to my wife and I. Here in Massachusetts there is a big push on a ballot initiative to have common core repealed.

http://www.commoncoreforum.org
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by nicecast View Post
My kids go to private school so theoretically we are immune from CC mandates. But... our school adopts a CC math curriculum and I have to say I like it. It is harder - in some cases MUCH harder - and forces kids to think about the same types of problems in different ways.

http://excelined.org/common-core-too...-expectations/

You asked so I'll give you the answer from my perspective: stop projecting your politics and math phobias on your kids and tell them to buck up and adapt - sort of like life.

If you are against CC then in the longer term vote for politicians who would do away with it.
Interesting. How have our Math scores done since implementing Common Core?

Hint: I already know the answer. This has NOTHING to do with politics. This has to do with mastery of the skill. And for the record: You're being a DB by interjecting your politics, etc. comments.
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Hooper View Post
I feel your pain Pete, I'll be in your shoes very shortly. It's very concerning to my wife and I. Here in Massachusetts there is a big push on a ballot initiative to have common core repealed.

http://www.commoncoreforum.org
Look, I'm willing to listen -- but from what I've seen, it takes the smart children and pulls them back and doesn't do anything for the lower kids.

That's what I've seen, first hand.

My son is half way through his multiplication lessons... he came home the other day with 4+4+4+4+4. I almost fell over.

P.S. He goes to a A10 rated school.
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:37 AM
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Pete, I wish I had the answer. My daughter is 5 and hasn't had it yet, we've talked about it and there is a good chance if my child struggles with it we will either find an older student to tutor her or just pull her from school if that doesn't work and home school.

It seems pretty sad that finding the right method is more important then finding the right answer.
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:39 AM
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Private school. However, in absence of that, us e it as a learning tool.

Explain to him that when you drive some where, there are different routes you can take, and often you take the one most convenient for you, but all of them get you to the same place.

Present CC as a "challenge" for him to learn different routes to get to the same place. It is important to be efficient at the different routes, in case on is required over the other.

Sounds like the child likes to be challenged, so challenge him to learn different paths to the same place, and then, eventually (couple grades), he can determine which path works best for him.
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:44 AM
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Pete,

I think you were a little out of line there to Nicecast while proving that you are not "willing to listen".

The way you were taught (probably) has put an upper limit on your math "skills". CC is attempting to remove such math ceilings from your children.

How has the US performed against other nations in math for, say, the past 30 years?

Because you only know one way to solve a math problem, that does not automatically make it the best way. Also, you may not be solving math problems but just arriving at the answer through familiarity or rote learning. You may think that is a good thing...but, in math you can't fake it until you make it once you progress.

Sure, your kid can become exceptional at learning math the way you did and he too can enjoy being extremely limited by that method.

Yeah for mediocrity.

Treat it as a challenge. Should be easy for your kid. You, not so much due to your self-imposed limitations for learning new things.
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:54 AM
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I was a frustrated parent just like you when my daughter would ask me for help in elementary school with this stuff and I struggled to understand this new way of math.

The positive is now that she is a freshman in high school, she is having a much easier time with algebra and higher math than I did at her age. The theory is it helps them with higher math later on, but it seems ridiculous who learned a different way.
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Dreamer View Post
Treat it as a challenge for him to learn a new way of doing things. A different language of math.
This is the only way to look at it. CC as a whole is nonsense, dreamed up in a board (bored) room full of idiots.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:00 AM
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Does anyone know of a clip where a true mathematician speaks to the benefits of CC? It would be good to hear from an expert about the pros and cons of the method.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Duck Butter View Post
I was a frustrated parent just like you when my daughter would ask me for help in elementary school with this stuff and I struggled to understand this new way of math.

The positive is now that she is a freshman in high school, she is having a much easier time with algebra and higher math than I did at her age. The theory is it helps them with higher math later on, but it seems ridiculous who learned a different way.
This is why I'm not shutting it down. I've been told the same thing -- that when it comes to higher-level work, it will give them the tools they need.

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm going to use the "many roads to get to the same place" routine. I like it!

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Old 11-24-2015, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by OldPete View Post
Interesting. How have our Math scores done since implementing Common Core?

Hint: I already know the answer. This has NOTHING to do with politics. This has to do with mastery of the skill. And for the record: You're being a DB by interjecting your politics, etc. comments.
I'd like to answer your question, with a little bit of background on myself first. I have 2 young boys, I have a masters in engineering, my wife has her undergrad degree in mathematics, and masters in school administration and was the head of the Math department at her last high school she worked in and has been teaching high school math for 10 years. She now works with students with special needs.

The techniques associated in elementary math in CC are awesome in that they are the basis for many of the techniques in advanced mathematics courses. However, many elementary school teachers have weak mathematics backgrounds and do not know the connections between what they are teaching and more advanced math courses. Also the way CC was rolled out the teachers have no additional training in these new techniques and in all likelihood are struggling as much as you and your son, and are equally unhappy about it.

Also to address the question is common core working? Who knows. Common Core or any other education policy really needs 13 years to be in place to evaluate fully. To know if a new technique is working you need one class to go through the program from start to finish K-12. However, we as a society expect to see changes a lot faster than that. In the end it ends up hurting the kids because every 3 or 4 years there is a new program with new techniques and no consistency in their education.

This is semi-related to this topic but it always irks me that it is some how okay in our society to be math illiterate. There is no shame in saying, I'm no good at math, or I stopped paying attention in math once they learned letters. Our society has a mathematics aversion. However, people would never say proudly, I can't read, I don't know how to write a sentence, etc.


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Old 11-24-2015, 06:11 AM
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It's not a bad idea properly done. It teaches kids to think instead of memorize but like every good idea it's only as good as the people implementing and in this case teaching it. And if your child's teacher doesn't totally understand it I wonder how they can teach it?

To be honest common core math is very close to how I do math in my head but I'm not 100% convinced it should be taught instead of regular math until they have learned regular math first.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Dreamer View Post
Treat it as a challenge for him to learn a new way of doing things. A different language of math.
Problem is the school have a hard enough time teaching kids the basics and now they add this crap.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:22 AM
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The schools teach my kids the way they want, I teach my kids the right way.
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Old 11-24-2015, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by nicecast View Post
My kids go to private school so theoretically we are immune from CC mandates. But... our school adopts a CC math curriculum and I have to say I like it. It is harder - in some cases MUCH harder - and forces kids to think about the same types of problems in different ways.

http://excelined.org/common-core-too...-expectations/

You asked so I'll give you the answer from my perspective: stop projecting your politics and math phobias on your kids and tell them to buck up and adapt - sort of like life.

If you are against CC then in the longer term vote for politicians who would do away with it.
What's the point of making math harder by making them use a different method to arrive at the same answer? If one of my subordinates was doing something that took them twice as long to do to accomplish what I wanted done, I'd have a big problem with that. Anyone would.

Pete, fair warning. It gets worse in middle school.
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