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Is it murder or not?

Old 11-19-2015, 10:53 AM
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?

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Old 11-19-2015, 10:57 AM
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If an LEO tells you to drop a weapon, and you refuse.......

I would not convict the LEO if the facts were as reported.
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:58 AM
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Who cares. Don't get high in public then pull a knife.
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:03 AM
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No...

Forcillo could have asked Yatim for his name, asked him what the problem was, and whether anyone could be called for him in an attempt to connect with the teen, Warshaw said.

"A police officer who uses profanity as a means to underscore his authority is essentially bringing himself down to the level of the person he's attempting to bring under control," he said. "It's somewhat difficult to migrate from that kind of language to de-escalating language where you're trying to be calming, and reassuring."
This is ridiculous. Someone on drugs pulls a knife and causes the evacuation of a public bus, and the cops are supposed to act calming and reassuring? Wtf
The cop showed up and yelled at the guy to drop the knife. Kinda seems like the proper police response to me.

Surveillance videos played in court have shown Forcillo arriving at the scene, yelling at Yatim to "drop the knife"
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:10 AM
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I don't get the luxury of taking your time to comply with the order "drop the knife". It is this theme of personal responsibility that leads people to want to protect the guy in this story that pulled the knife. When this happens to someone that does what the police ask them to do in a compliant manner, I will be at the front of the line asking for the cops head. until then, I want the train moving again so I can get home to my kids and the cop going home without a scratch. If you die getting in the way of either of those - tough crap.
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:13 AM
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nope. not in the US
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:13 AM
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yep. what the others have said so far.
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:17 AM
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Not murder
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:20 AM
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Thank you Tueller.
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:20 AM
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Some kid on drugs and not coherent, not an immediate threat, gets put to death. That cop gets to be judge, jury and execution.

I know a few professional LEOs that would not agree with what happened.

There are plenty other scenarios that I could agree with the officer's actions.

edit to add:

It is easy to blame the officer, but it is more about his hiring, training and experience that resulted in this outcome.

Last edited by nccoaster; 11-19-2015 at 11:22 AM. Reason: additional thoughts.
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:44 AM
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The cop's job is to protect EVERYONE including the kid on drugs.

You guys with the Comply Or Die™ attitude are so far gone it's unbelievable.

According to the story, there was no threat to anyone. What's with this mad rush to kill people who don't comply? Is the Shot Clock on these cops or something?

Some kid was tripping his nuts off so a cop, in no apparent danger, blew is head off. The most alarming thing is that some think that is not a disproportionate response.

Step One: Ask suspect to comply. If he is unwilling go to step two.
Step Two: Kill him.
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Dreamer View Post
The cop's job is to protect EVERYONE including the kid on drugs.

You guys with the Comply Or Die™ attitude are so far gone it's unbelievable.

According to the story, there was no threat to anyone. What's with this mad rush to kill people who don't comply? Is the Shot Clock on these cops or something?

Some kid was tripping his nuts off so a cop, in no apparent danger, blew is head off. The most alarming thing is that some think that is not a disproportionate response.

Step One: Ask suspect to comply. If he is unwilling go to step two.
Step Two: Kill him.
x2
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Dreamer View Post
The cop's job is to protect EVERYONE including the kid on drugs.

You guys with the Comply Or Die™ attitude are so far gone it's unbelievable.

According to the story, there was no threat to anyone. What's with this mad rush to kill people who don't comply? Is the Shot Clock on these cops or something?

Some kid was tripping his nuts off so a cop, in no apparent danger, blew is head off. The most alarming thing is that some think that is not a disproportionate response.

Step One: Ask suspect to comply. If he is unwilling go to step two.
Step Two: Kill him.
No argument here.
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by nccoaster View Post
Some kid on drugs and not coherent, not an immediate threat, gets put to death. That cop gets to be judge, jury and execution.

I know a few professional LEOs that would not agree with what happened.

There are plenty other scenarios that I could agree with the officer's actions.

edit to add:

It is easy to blame the officer, but it is more about his hiring, training and experience that resulted in this outcome.

The only person that made the decision to die that day, was the one that refused to drop the knife.
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Dreamer View Post
The cop's job is to protect EVERYONE including the kid on drugs.

You guys with the Comply Or Die™ attitude are so far gone it's unbelievable.

According to the story, there was no threat to anyone. What's with this mad rush to kill people who don't comply? Is the Shot Clock on these cops or something?

.
Have to agree with you on this one

. . . too many guys here on THT think they are playing video games where killing is of no consequence
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jersus View Post
The only person that made the decision to die that day, was the one that refused to drop the knife.
Load of absolute balls.

The only person who decided to end the altercation with needless lethal force that day was the cop.

Could have offered him a glass of water in exchange for the knife. Trust me, he'd have taken it.*




*Only half joking.
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:36 PM
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]Warshaw noted that Yatim remained on the streetcar, near the front doors of the vehicle, when police arrived on scene, and was "essentially already contained."
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Dreamer View Post
Load of absolute balls.

The only person who decided to end the altercation with needless lethal force that day was the cop.

Could have offered him a glass of water in exchange for the knife. Trust me, he'd have taken it.*




*Only half joking.
How many times in your professional career have you had an "Individual with a knife" confrontation?
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AIKO AIKO View Post
How many times in your professional career have you had an "Individual with a knife" confrontation?
None here.

How about you?
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Qb1rdman View Post
None here.

How about you?
Several.......What Now?

Do me a favor......Watch this video from Calibre Press.....Surviving Edged Weapons....
it's an old one but it gets the point across!

Last edited by AIKO AIKO; 11-19-2015 at 01:00 PM.
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