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HS sports evolution

Old 09-10-2015, 09:06 AM
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Default HS sports evolution

Not wanting to derail the discussion of coaching a losing team…

How many of you have witnessed the displacement of seniors by up and coming underclassmen on a regular basis?

How many of you have witnessed the commingling of HS sports coaches/officials with club sports?

How many of you have witnessed overt conflicts of interest by parent coaches at the HS level?

How many of your kids payed fees (beyond simple little league signup) to go to sports clinics or play on elite teams? Did you feel it was a prerequisite to varsity play?

I'm curious if these are happening in other locations. They are common practices here.

Last edited by chrispnet; 09-10-2015 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
Not wanting to derail the discussion of coaching a losing team…

How many of you have witnessed the displacement of seniors by up and coming underclassmen on a regular basis?

How many of you have witnessed the commingling of HS sports coaches/officials with club sports?

How many of you have witnessed overt conflicts of interest by parent coaches at the HS level?

How many of your kids payed fees (beyond simple little league signup) to go to sports clinics or play on elite teams? Did you feel it was a prerequisite to varsity play?

I'm curious if these are happening in other locations.
I help coach a high school hockey team and can answer this based on my experience

How many of you have witnessed the displacement of seniors by up and coming underclassmen on a regular basis? - define "regular basis". in our program no position is guaranteed and we have had freshman and sophomores beat out upper class players for virtually every position

How many of you have witnessed the commingling of HS sports coaches/officials with club sports? - Not sure I understand, but high school coaches are not allowed to coach at lower levels as it violates recruitment rules. We are, and do, coach off season teams made up of high school players as it is within the rules.

How many of you have witnessed overt conflicts of interest by parent coaches at the HS level? - not at the high school level. Youth levels absolutely. The head coach of our program cut his own son two years in a row, and then the two years he made the team he never progressed past 4th line on the depth chart.

How many of your kids payed fees (beyond simple little league signup) to go to sports clinics or play on elite teams? Did you feel it was a prerequisite to varsity play? - players routinely go to clinics on their own. Our team and league is highly competitive and the kids seek an advantage. As a coach, part of me wishes they would not play on "elite" teams outside of the season - it only leads to them being recruited to prep schools and out of our program.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:26 AM
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To the upper classmen thing my HS football team is going to play the best player at the position regardless of grade. Football as in many places is huge here and the team is a big contender every year and will play whatever personnel will help them win. When I was in HS the QB was a 4 year starter (Chad Henne whose on the Jags now I think).
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:29 AM
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Jersus - To clarify…we have high school coaches who are also equity holders and active participants in private for-profit endeavors in their sport with their athletes.
One such individual is a mainstay in the club sport, organizes league play, hires the officials for the league, etc…and then coaches varsity where the same players and officials participate.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jtav2002 View Post
To the upper classmen thing my HS football team is going to play the best player at the position regardless of grade. Football as in many places is huge here and the team is a big contender every year and will play whatever personnel will help them win. When I was in HS the QB was a 4 year starter (Chad Henne whose on the Jags now I think).
Have you witnessed underclassmen play "building for the future" at the expense of seniors?
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
Jersus - To clarify…we have high school coaches who are also equity holders and active participants in private for-profit endeavors in their sport with their athletes.
One such individual is a mainstay in the club sport, organizes league play, hires the officials for the league, etc…and then coaches varsity where the same players and officials participate.

Not allowed in our state, unless, such activity is only played by players already on high school programs. in other words, it is a recruitment violation to coach or organize league play for pre-high school players.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:38 AM
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Seniority never applied when I was in school. Coach played the better players. Some use to jump from high school to pros and still do depending upon the sport.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by back at it View Post
Seniority never applied when I was in school. Coach played the better players. Some use to jump from high school to pros.
Better players definitely.
That really isn't the phenomena I have observed.

Underclassmen are routinely given "potential" preference over seniors here.

When I was in HS…it was understood, talent being equal, that underclassmen would get their day, and the senior would have preference.
I now witness underclassmen given preference…all other things equal…with the philosophy that they can still improve, but the senior has demonstrated their ceiling.

We have many cases of players starting as sophomores and juniors and not playing at all as seniors.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jtav2002 View Post
To the upper classmen thing my HS football team is going to play the best player at the position regardless of grade. Football as in many places is huge here and the team is a big contender every year and will play whatever personnel will help them win. When I was in HS the QB was a 4 year starter (Chad Henne whose on the Jags now I think).
Yes…I was a multiple year starter in two sports even 43 years ago.
…but that isn't quite the phenomena I am describing.

Here, once a senior has established they are no longer being recruited, they are often displaced by sophomores…the occasional freshman…with no greater talent.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
Better players definitely.
That really isn't the phenomena I have observed.

Underclassmen are routinely given "potential" preference over seniors here.

When I was in HS…it was understood, talent being equal, that underclassmen would get their day, and the senior would have preference.
I now witness underclassmen given preference…all other things equal…with the philosophy that they can still improve, but the senior has demonstrated their ceiling.

We have many cases of players starting as sophomores and juniors and not playing at all as seniors.
It may be that way here now. That was back in the 90's when I was in. I won't be around it again until my son starts. He just started three year old soccer. (moms idea of course)
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by back at it View Post
It may be that way here now. That was back in the 90's when I was in. I won't be around it again until my son starts. He just started three year old soccer. (moms idea of course)
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:09 AM
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I graduated high school in 2000 and things were becoming very messy back then. Nike was giving HS school shoe deals, pepsi was giving HS big money to put in vending machines and elite teams were taking off. Parents need to remember the below facts.
1 in 10,000 senior varsity HS players will play one down in NFL. You are more likely to become a drug addict.
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
Better players definitely.
That really isn't the phenomena I have observed.

Underclassmen are routinely given "potential" preference over seniors here.

When I was in HS…it was understood, talent being equal, that underclassmen would get their day, and the senior would have preference.
I now witness underclassmen given preference…all other things equal…with the philosophy that they can still improve, but the senior has demonstrated their ceiling.

We have many cases of players starting as sophomores and juniors and not playing at all as seniors.
We do that as well. The talent level is really not equal, as the underclassmen have upside where the senior has peaked.

If the senior player is not being a leader, or demonstrating other intangibles, they will be displaced for a younger player. it is not about creating Al Bundy moments for seniors, it is about winning and developing the program for the future.
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
Better players definitely.
That really isn't the phenomena I have observed.

Underclassmen are routinely given "potential" preference over seniors here.

When I was in HS…it was understood, talent being equal, that underclassmen would get their day, and the senior would have preference.
I now witness underclassmen given preference…all other things equal…with the philosophy that they can still improve, but the senior has demonstrated their ceiling.

We have many cases of players starting as sophomores and juniors and not playing at all as seniors.
I was a 4 year Varsity Starter, trust this I worked my a$$ off to be one too, if a guy is younger and better than the older player than he deserves to get the nod. My Coach would tell the older guys to work harder and get better and if they "Can't hack it get your Jacket" plain and simple, we were going to field the best team we could every week
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Old 09-10-2015, 11:21 AM
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How many of you have witnessed the commingling of HS sports coaches/officials with club sports?

How many of you have witnessed overt conflicts of interest by parent coaches at the HS level?

In a different to conflict of interest in different sport (volleyball) I have seen were club Coachs will take less talented players over better players because of what Highschool they play for.
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Old 09-10-2015, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 530 Boat Man View Post
I was a 4 year Varsity Starter, trust this I worked my a$$ off to be one too, if a guy is younger and better than the older player than he deserves to get the nod. My Coach would tell the older guys to work harder and get better and if they "Can't hack it get your Jacket" plain and simple, we were going to field the best team we could every week
If you lost your spot as a senior to an incoming freshman so the program could "build for the future", would you feel ill served?
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
Yes…I was a multiple year starter in two sports even 43 years ago.
…but that isn't quite the phenomena I am describing.

Here, once a senior has established they are no longer being recruited, they are often displaced by sophomores…the occasional freshman…with no greater talent.
Then in that case, no. All things equal seniors would usually get the nod. We just often times had underclassmen that were just that much better.
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:09 PM
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I went to a highschool with some crappy sports teams. Looking back I'm glad I did, a lot less to worry about and no one thought sports was the end all and be all.

HS sports seemed to be much less of a big deal in the north east where I grew up, than it seems to be down south where I live now. In NJ the only people who cared about HS sports were those associated with the HS (students, parents, teachers, etc), in NC it seems to be a big deal to adults as a whole which adds a lot of pressure and potential conflicts of interest.
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by chrispnet View Post
If you lost your spot as a senior to an incoming freshman so the program could "build for the future", would you feel ill served?
No, I would've worked even harder to earn my spot back. That is how we were Coached, play your best at all times, only the best on the Team get to start and sometimes some of the kids didn't get to play at all, how do you think they felt being tackling dummies at practice all year and never seeing any playing time? You do one of two things, get better or suck it up
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