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Old 09-09-2015, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by fichtion View Post
do successful people put in hard and long days at work?

I know that I do
I do too. However is it right to pound 15 year old kids with 10-12+ hours of classroom & book work per day plus heavy weekend loads? No time to learn life lessons outside of school.

He works very hard (2AP classes, 4 honors classes including calculus as a soph.)
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by fichtion View Post
do successful people put in hard and long days at work?

I know that I do
Yes, Generally speaking. I also believe that those same people are balanced enough to teach their children how to live and enjoy life.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by fichtion View Post
do successful people put in hard and long days at work?

I know that I do
Some yes, some no. Some "unsuccessful" people put in hard and long days at work too.

I guess the real question is, what do we define as "success"?

Is being a top "business person" who spend more concious hours away from his family than with them and knows little of his children's lives successful?

Is a fisherman who fishes a few hours a day to support his family, and then spends the rest of his day playing with his kids, chilling with his wife, and drinking with his friends successful?
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by olyveoil View Post
Yes, Generally speaking. I also believe that those same people are balanced enough to teach their children how to live and enjoy life.
Ahh...the "do as I say, not as I do" crowd.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:28 PM
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You guys still talking about homework?

I've got an enjoyable job that pretty let's me do as I please...come and go...live life, ya know It is work, but it isn't "slaving away for Mr. Slate."

Most of what I studied in school (4 year degree and earlier edu.) doesn't apply to my job and what does has pretty much been forgotten...
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by iFishMD View Post
I do too. However is it right to pound 15 year old kids with 10-12+ hours of classroom & book work per day plus heavy weekend loads? No time to learn life lessons outside of school.

He works very hard (2AP classes, 4 honors classes including calculus as a soph.)
No, its not "right", and you know it, which is the basis of your questioning of it. All it teaches your child is that "work" is the most important thing. It must be completed at all costs, and all personal sacrifices are expected to accomplish it. If you don't, well, you get a bad grade, and your choices of schools are then limited, which, in turn, means you won't be viewed as well when you graduate, leading to a worse "first job" which leads to less opportunity to get an early pardon from your sentence.

But hey, humans have it all figured out. Just look at the Chinese and Japanese. Such a happy culture!
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by schoolsout1 View Post
You guys still talking about homework?

I've got an enjoyable job that pretty let's me do as I please...come and go...live life, ya know It is work, but it isn't "slaving away for Mr. Slate."

Most of what I studied in school (4 year degree and earlier edu.) doesn't apply to my job and what does has pretty much been forgotten...
More evidence to the point I'm attempting to make. You were subjected to 12 years of preliminary, and then 4 more years of supplemental, relatively useless "education".

You didn't learn how to manage money. How to buy a home. How to start a family. How to pursue what makes you happy. You know...the truly important parts of life. Those, you're expected to learn on your own. All the unimportant stuff, well, you HAVE to go to school for 180 days a year for that...for 12-16 years.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Garett View Post

If teachers are giving tons of homework it means the teachers are teaching less!
For this to be true, there would need to be a static amount of "knowledge" to be taught.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronn Burgandy View Post
More evidence to the point I'm attempting to make. You were subjected to 12 years of preliminary, and then 4 more years of supplemental, relatively useless "education".

You didn't learn how to manage money. How to buy a home. How to start a family. How to pursue what makes you happy. You know...the truly important parts of life. Those, you're expected to learn on your own. All the unimportant stuff, well, you HAVE to go to school for 180 days a year for that...for 12-16 years.
That's the reason I posted that...but, I will say, we did learn how to balance a checkbook and manage/budget money from one of the best HS teachers I ever had. He's now an Ex-pat living in Thailand or somewhere else "living life" and taking in what the world has to offer...True story
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ronn Burgandy View Post
Ahh...the "do as I say, not as I do" crowd.
Again, your shallow thinking for some reason believes that hard work excludes the ability or even the capacity to enjoy life. Why?
Trust me. One can do/have both.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:46 PM
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They assign homework in first grade around here, I don't think you should get homework other than the occasional science fair project until middle school, by 3rd grade it's pretty heavy.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:47 PM
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So did you or your wife make it to school today or at least make the phone call for an appointment?
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by YFMF View Post
So did you or your wife make it to school today or at least make the phone call for an appointment?

Spoke to the guidance counselor. She somewhat agreed with me that it can be a problem but asked me to address it directly with the teachers first and go from there. (I was told I had to email his teachers to contact them )

Has anyone seen "The Race to Nowhere"? It was sent to me as a must see.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uem73imvn9Y

Last edited by iFishMD; 09-09-2015 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by olyveoil View Post
Again, your shallow thinking for some reason believes that hard work excludes the ability or even the capacity to enjoy life. Why?
Trust me. One can do/have both.
No, it doesn't. Your issue is your personal fixation with me. Clearly I was speaking generally, which, for some reason, you took to heart personally. Perhaps because you see my name every time you read one of your posts?

Odd that you "generally spoke" on one of your posts. Its almost as if you understand the concept, but are blinded by it when I use it. Strange.

Of course some people can do both. Most, cannot. Most that think they can/do, probably don't, but they don't understand it because they have been programmed throughout their entire life to think otherwise.

Take an average "successful" business guy. Probably spends 50-70 hours working a week, so we'll say 60 per week. Maybe has an hour commute each day, so there's another 5 hours. 65 hours per week spent away from family...working. 65 hours not doing what he truly enjoys, like fishing, or hanging with friends or family, or playing soccer, or sucking down beers, or playing solitaire. 5 days of the week where he doesn't get to sleep in, hang with the wife, etc. Let's say he gets up at 6:30 and goes to bed at 10:30 each day.

16h a day * 7 = 112. 65 of those hours, or roughly 60% of the time he's awake, he's going to, coming home from, or working. 60% of his time, in my little example, this guy is doing work related stuff, rather than "life" related stuff. He could be super happy with his 40%, doing awesome things, being an awesome dad to his kids, being an awesome husband to his wife...living the life he really wants...40% of the time.

And we, as humans, view him as "successful". THAT is what I take issue with.

...and the reality is, that dude works weekends too, and checks emails at night, and is thinking about work a LOT on his "off time". But my example assumes he completely unplugs when he "clocks out", and remains completely and 100% focused on non-work related things, life family, friends, and fun, and dude only gets 40% of his everyday life.

Yeah man...humans have totally figured this thing called "life" out.

Last edited by Ronn Burgandy; 09-09-2015 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Garett View Post
It is being taught,...................you just need to teach it to yourself, at home, after school is closed.
What? That makes no sense. For the following to be true;

Originally Posted by Garett View Post
If teachers are giving tons of homework it means the teachers are teaching less!
Teachers today, who gave "more" homework and "teach less" would have to be teaching the same topics and utilizing the same tools as teachers from 20, 30, 40, etc years ago, unless what is being taught is static.

Take computer science as an example. I took one class in middle school on the subject. It was very simplistic as personal computers were pretty basic. Email and the internet were relatively unknown at the time, so the course material was limited mostly to very basic code. We didn't have much homework at all.

Today's computer science teacher may exponentially more homework to that same grade level, but its not as a result of them "teaching less". It's a result of having the same amount of time to teach a subject that has grown over time.
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:22 PM
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As far as "long hours at work" well our American culture is totally screwed up about that. Working overtime just to work overtime is stupid, and being too cheap to hire enough people to get the work done is as well.

As far as homework, I very rarely had more than an hour's worth when I was in school and took all honors and AP, graduated 3rd in my class. Entered college with sophomore status. Heard horror stories of other kids with 6+ hrs worth and never understood how they had so much. But then I got more done while I was in school (didn't gossip in class) and I am generally 2-3 times faster than most other people at getting stuff done.
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Old 09-09-2015, 06:17 PM
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So hard work is no longer a virtue. Was Generation X. Then Generation Me. Now Generation Don't-give-a-shit. What else is new?


My kid is in a middle-school that is very hard to get in and is supposed to be very good. I am actually surprised at how little home work he brings home.
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Old 09-09-2015, 06:34 PM
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I find it strange that so many have perfect children/teenagers that don't procrastinate or get distracted or work slowly or do anything but work proficiently at max output for 12-14 hrs a day on in class and homework. I mean to find 1 kid that completely defies what millions of normal children/teenagers and just sit in a chair with their nose in a book and not move for that long is crazy, but to have everyone on this board with kids that do it........ it's almost unbelievable.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:22 PM
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Oh for goodness sake. Teachers sleeping in class? Really? Someone is buying that manure? If a teacher did fall asleep a student would post the picture on facebook and the teacher would be fired. (With cause, so tenure wouldn't matter and union couldn't do ANYTHING.)
And that is assuming no students killed each other or were filmed fornicating on the desks and pics posted to instagram.
I've never seen any grownups gullible enough to buy that crap.
And teachers not teaching? What, exactly are they doing? Turning your attention away for 30 seconds is less dangerous in a lion tamer's job.

You should read the true stories in Penthouse letters. They are easier to believe.
Teaching is a job where you literally cannot even think about anything else for the entire day. Oh, you do get a 30 minute lunch and the excellent food in the cafeteria is cheap.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:34 PM
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Having taught every level of class from remediation to AP in many different schools I have a few observations.

1. Homeowrk should never be busy work. Seems obvious but many teachers don't get this. Honestly unless you are reinforcing a concept the majority of HW should be reading or working on long term projects.
2. Kids need to be taught how to prioritize and how to "get by". I specifically taught my AP students how to skim read to get the gist of a selection. There are times when there will just be too much work to get done, that's when prioritizing and knowing how to "get by" become valuable skills.
3. Parents- STOP PUTTING YOUR KIDS IN EVERY G"DAM AP AND HONORS CLASS.
AP courses are college level and many HS teachers try to prove how tough the courses are by overworking their students. I would actually say the average AP course is harder than the comparable course taken in college. Knowing this stop jamming your kids into multiple AP classes. Yes they save some college $ but you also ruin their HS experience. Also stop pushing your kids into courses they have zero business being in. Why force your kid into a course they are going to be overwhelmed in?

Honestly a lot of the issue are parents over-estimating the abilities of their kids and kids feeling pressured to meet unrealistic expectations of their parents. In cases like this an hours worth of HW to one kid may be a 3 hr chore to a kid who shouldn't be in that class. Then again, these are the same parents taking their kids to personal trainers in elementary school because they're gonna be superstar athletes. Fact is some kids just have more ability as parents our job is to help our kids reach their potential.
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