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Prison/paying debt to society

Old 07-21-2015, 04:43 AM
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Default Prison/paying debt to society

A news spot prompted my thoughts on this. When someone is convicted, incarcerated, does their time, then released, should they get a clean slate as if nothing happened since they paid the price? I know prison does not rehabilitate every inmate and that the level of crime matters as well but what do you say?

Personally, I don't know (at least I do t think I know) any ex-convicts but I think I'd be watching a little more closely if I hired (although Hiring would depend on crime) or had near my family.

Edit: no pass for sex/predator/child crimes or cold-blooded murder

Edit 2: the more I think about this it can get pretty deep. White collar crime is a no pass too. Think Madoff.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:26 AM
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Once maybe,with the exception of first degree capitol crimes and the child/ sex predator crimes.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:27 AM
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You have a valid question and it's one I've asked myself.

I have a step son in prison right now. He got 5 years for finally crashing and burning with a pill and alcohol addiction. Before that he was incredibly successful at 25yr old.
Degree in finance, home free and clear, vehicles free and clear, at 25.

Sometimes I ponder over the idea that when he gets out he'll never vote or own a firearm.
As much as he and I don't see eye to eye, I wonder if he should be allowed those rights again someday.

Then the other half of me kicks in and says, NO.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:30 AM
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Technically, I think if you serve your "time," then when you get out, all rights should be restored.

Now, are current sentences/punishments too short? I'd say a lot are...
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by The Revenge View Post
Sometimes I ponder over the idea that when he gets out he'll never vote or own a firearm.
The US Constitution specifically states that the right to bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Unfortunately, the Constitution has become merely a suggestion nowadays...
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:36 AM
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IMHO, when someone is convicted of a crime, their record should reflect that conviction for the rest of their lives. After that individual serves their time, their next potential employer needs to know whether that person has a criminal record, because my observation is that people who commit a crime once are more likely to commit the same crime again, even after release from prison.

This whole "paying their debt to society" thing is BS. People are in prison for punishment. Rehabilitation is a possibility, but there is absolutely no guarantee of that. Look at the recidivism rate for convicted criminals and think about how well rehabilitation works..
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:37 AM
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I would suggest to you that making a "clean slate" would cause significantly more issues than it would solve. Repeat offenders would go unnoticed. Lenient punishments for repeat offenders who should probably be serving life, etc.

There are ways to have something expunged from your record.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:38 AM
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And really, what kind of 'debt' are they paying society?

I'm sure prison is no pretty place to be....but they're getting 3 squares, have a roof and security from elements, and usually have benefits like television and visitors and outside contact and who knows what else. That's a lot better than most of them had it on the outside...
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by schoolsout1 View Post
The US Constitution specifically states that the right to bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Unfortunately, the Constitution has become merely a suggestion nowadays...
Yeah the patriot act was a rough one.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by chimmike View Post

There are ways to have something expunged from your record.
Indeed...

I've stepped through a few hoops and done what I needed to get the governor's nod...
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:43 AM
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In some cases and after a trouble free pre-set time, yes, absolutely.

Last edited by kone; 07-21-2015 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:48 AM
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Nope. Felonies need to follow and haunt the offender for the rest of their lives.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by chimmike View Post
And really, what kind of 'debt' are they paying society?

I'm sure prison is no pretty place to be....but they're getting 3 squares, have a roof and security from elements, and usually have benefits like television and visitors and outside contact and who knows what else. That's a lot better than most of them had it on the outside...
I wouldn't go so far as to say "debt," in the literal sense, but they have been punished (whether it was too much or too little...that is up for another debate).

In a fairly poor comparison, it is like being grounded when you were younger. You did something bad and your parents, hopefully, took away privileges for a period of time. It was meant to deter future behavior...
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:49 AM
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There is only one person I had a chance to hire that (never convicted) was guilty of a crime. A woman in my area (lived across the street) set her apartment on fire to cover up her killing her young child. When she came into my store looking for work some years later I made a comment tat made her walk out, something to the effect of, "Oh so you live in the building where that woman killed her child a few years ago."

Sorry but your crime has to come wit you IMO. I'm not sure why white collar crimes aren't allowed to have guns but it doesn't bother me much.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:53 AM
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Further thoughts on clearing the criminal record after the criminal serves his/her sentence.

Which crimes would you be willing to clear from the record so a convicted criminal could get a job in toddler day-care, schoolteacher for your child, as your dentist, as your wife's doctor, coming into your home as a utility worker, providing home care to your disabled parent or managing your money?

I have enough trouble trusting the people who haven't been convicted of anything- yet.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:58 AM
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I could see expunging someones record if it was one non violent offense, but they would have to be trouble free for 10 years to be able to apply for it.
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Old 07-21-2015, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by yarcraft91 View Post
Further thoughts on clearing the criminal record after the criminal serves his/her sentence.

Which crimes would you be willing to clear from the record so a convicted criminal could get a job in toddler day-care, schoolteacher for your child, as your dentist, as your wife's doctor, coming into your home as a utility worker, providing home care to your disabled parent or managing your money?

I have enough trouble trusting the people who haven't been convicted of anything- yet.
I don't know if I would "clear" anything from the record, but I could, legitimately, argue for full restoration of rights. It is up to business owner or consumer to make the decision to hire/use, IMO. The liability is on them.
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Old 07-21-2015, 06:00 AM
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I think its up to the individual. I know two people who went to prison.

Person 1 has been in and out since he was a teenager. Stopped talking to him years ago but in his 30's still a POS who is in and out of the system and I want nothing to do with him and view him as a criminal weather he has done his time or not.

Person 2 was in a car accident and three people were killed. He went to prison mostly due to being the driver and being high on pot when the accident happened. Was a good kid when he went in (20) and was a good person when he got out (32). He is a good person who made a very bad mistake and has paid the price and I am glad to give him a 2nd chance.
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Old 07-21-2015, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by schoolsout1 View Post
I don't know if I would "clear" anything from the record, but I could, legitimately, argue for full restoration of rights. It is up to business owner or consumer to make the decision to hire/use, IMO. The liability is on them.
We can generally agree on that. However, I would not agree, for example, to restoring the right to own firearms to someone who committed a felony involving firearms, but I'd let that person vote. Nor would I restore the right to vote to someone who committed felony voting fraud, but I would allow that person to own firearms.
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Old 07-21-2015, 06:08 AM
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As an employer, I want people who can follow directions and work within defined parameters. It's not that easy sorting people out. Military experience - person has formal training in following directions and working within parameters. Prison time - doesn't demonstrate the ability to follow directions and work within parameters.
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