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Old 08-13-2018, 03:22 PM
  #201  
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This is the type of BS I see on a regular basis. Granted the first video is in Canada, and laws are
slightly. My big frustration is that cyclist donít spend and equal amount of time telling other cyclists not to do crap like this as they do yelling for cars to share be road.





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Old 08-13-2018, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
This is the type of BS I see on a regular basis. Granted the first video is in Canada, and laws are
slightly. My big frustration is that cyclist donít spend and equal amount of time telling other cyclists not to do crap like this as they do yelling for cars to share be road.

https://youtu.be/55Wb8exPj3o

https://youtu.be/XEKBI8kIdVI




I always try to get groups like that to break up and ride about 3-4 bike lengths apart 2 feet left of the white fog line. So much easier for cars to get around that way right?
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Old 08-13-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I always try to get groups like that to break up and ride about 3-4 bike lengths apart 2 feet left of the white fog line. So much easier for cars to get around that way right?
methodology can vary based on the road, but the main thing is donít hold up traffic for an extended period of time. I get making your way to a safe spot to pass, but letting traffic pass can sometimes mean pulling completely off the road momentarily. I know bikes donít like to loose momentum, but vehicles should not be detained for extended periods of time regardless of what that means for the cyclist.
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Old 08-13-2018, 05:29 PM
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Single lane road we ride single file. Two or more lanes, we take a lane.
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Old 08-13-2018, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sprockets View Post
Single lane road we ride single file. Two or more lanes, we take a lane.

FWIW

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Old 08-13-2018, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Issue being is many of the groups flat out donít care if a motorist can pass. Doesnít bother them a bit to hold cars up for miles on end. Itís ďtheir rightĒ you know. The attitude that cars should just be patient until the opportunity to pass presents itself by virtue of the road offering a suitable spot is flat out selfish on the part of the cyclists. If such spots are not frequent, cyclist should pull off the road. If they dislike that interrupting their ride, pick a different route.

Yes, I know that screws up their momentum, bliss, whatever. Who cares. Definitely not me. Share the road goes both ways.
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Old 08-13-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Rank View Post
My biggest complaint is the “in town” cyclists that I have to pass numerous times. I understand sharing the road and I have a diesel truck with a trailer. I try to move out of the right lane to pass a cyclist and then moved back. However at the next red light they ride right past me on the edge of the lane and take the pole position at the light. Light turns green and the lane change dance happens again. Hit a red light and it continues.


Have your passenger open their door. Good time to wash your windshield as well...

Just kidding of course.

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Old 08-13-2018, 08:07 PM
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I have never seen a cyclist obey traffic laws. Running red lights...no problem. Blowing stop signs. All day long.

In general I'm not against cyclists, but they need to obey traffic laws. Some are just flat out dangerous. The ones around here seem to think they are entitled and that the law doesn't apply to them...plus they like to ride on the busy commuter surface streets vs the myriad of country roads or...and this is a freaking novel concept...the hundreds of miles of greenway and biking trails.

Then there are the morons who decide to ride on Six Forks road here, which is where the lake is and boat ramps...frequented, oddly enough, by folks towing boats. Its a curvy, hilly, narrow road. I've on more than one occasion had to panic slam on the brakes towing the boat coming around a blind corner and a pack of cyclists were there in the road trying to make it up the hill. I'd be lying if I said I didn't drop it into third and really give it the beans to blow some smoke. Yeah, I know, total ahole move but I figure if they aren't concerned about riding on a clearly dangerous road then a little soot won't hurt either.

Again I'm not against responsible cyclists. It's just the vast majority seem to be above the law and think they are privileged or entitled, and that pisses me off. I always pass giving them a wide berth, and generally don't go into a fit of rage when I come upon a pack on the backroads. If I lived in the city proper I'd probably bike everywhere too. As far as riding for recreation, I have a mountain bike and there are far too many greenways and trails around here to ride on roads.

Oh, and seriously guys. It's biking. You aren't riding in the tour de france. Lose the spandex...it ain't that serious. Gym shorts, a T shirt, and tennis shoes will do just fine.

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Old 08-13-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
This is the type of BS I see on a regular basis. Granted the first video is in Canada, and laws are
slightly. My big frustration is that cyclist donít spend and equal amount of time telling other cyclists not to do crap like this as they do yelling for cars to share be road.

https://youtu.be/55Wb8exPj3o

https://youtu.be/XEKBI8kIdVI



dang....I've never seen a group of bikers ever do that in all my years of driving, Nor Have I ever ridden with a group or person that wasn't courteous to cars.

i treat it like when I play golf, I'd rather wait on a group in front of me than hold someone up. But as I said before, it would be pretty rare for me to ever hold up a car.

You can also ride two by in a bike lane if it's big enough and still have room for cars to pass by easily, you should be able to touch the rider next to you. .

Also, with a group as big as in the videos, I wouldn't want them to all stop at a stop sign, would be like watching a train go by if you're behind them!
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NCSUboater View Post
I have never seen a cyclist obey traffic laws. Running red lights...no problem. Blowing stop signs. All day long.

In general I'm not against cyclists, but they need to obey traffic laws. Some are just flat out dangerous. The ones around here seem to think they are entitled and that the law doesn't apply to them...plus they like to ride on the busy commuter surface streets vs the myriad of country roads or...and this is a freaking novel concept...the hundreds of miles of greenway and biking trails.

Then there are the morons who decide to ride on Six Forks road here, which is where the lake is and boat ramps...frequented, oddly enough, by folks towing boats. Its a curvy, hilly, narrow road. I've on more than one occasion had to panic slam on the brakes towing the boat coming around a blind corner and a pack of cyclists were there in the road trying to make it up the hill. I'd be lying if I said I didn't drop it into third and really give it the beans to blow some smoke. Yeah, I know, total ahole move but I figure if they aren't concerned about riding on a clearly dangerous road then a little soot won't hurt either.

Again I'm not against responsible cyclists. It's just the vast majority seem to be above the law and think they are privileged or entitled, and that pisses me off. I always pass giving them a wide berth, and generally don't go into a fit of rage when I come upon a pack on the backroads. If I lived in the city proper I'd probably bike everywhere too. As far as riding for recreation, I have a mountain bike and there are far too many greenways and trails around here to ride on roads.

Oh, and seriously guys. It's biking. You aren't riding in the tour de france. Lose the spandex...it ain't that serious. Gym shorts, a T shirt, and tennis shoes will do just fine.


Don't we all break the law on a regular basis? Do you signal every turn and lane change? Do you always come to a complete stop at signs and right on reds? Never take any liberties with the speed limit?
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Don't we all break the law on a regular basis? Do you signal every turn and lane change? Do you always come to a complete stop at signs and right on reds? Never take any liberties with the speed limit?
No never.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by grouperdawg View Post


dang....I've never seen a group of bikers ever do that in all my years of driving, Nor Have I ever ridden with a group or person that wasn't courteous to cars.

i treat it like when I play golf, I'd rather wait on a group in front of me than hold someone up. But as I said before, it would be pretty rare for me to ever hold up a car.

You can also ride two by in a bike lane if it's big enough and still have room for cars to pass by easily, you should be able to touch the rider next to you. .

Also, with a group as big as in the videos, I wouldn't want them to all stop at a stop sign, would be like watching a train go by if you're behind them!
The group I run into regularly starts out their rides 2 of 4 days of the week from a residence near my house. They do rides daily Monday - Thursday, covering 6 routes in total, which have 4 different starting points. Typically 10-20 riders on these. Then on weekends they do bigger rides, many of which start out from that same residence. At times the group is huge, which is the main problem. Impossible to safely pass them. Then add in that they refuse to pull over for motorists to pass, and it can make blood boil. To make it even more fun starting in 2012 SC law says that you canít ďharassĒ cyclist. They (the cyclist) consider any criticism to their behavior while they are in their bikes to be harassment, including a light tap on the horn to move the heck out of the way after pacing them for over a mile, and feel the same way about hanging your head out the window to request the same. And of course they have GoPros facing front and rear to capture any incidents of so called harassment and send in to the sheriffs department, after carefully editing out the 10 minutes of delays that they caused the motorist.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by grouperdawg View Post


dang....I've never seen a group of bikers ever do that in all my years of driving, Nor Have I ever ridden with a group or person that wasn't courteous to cars.

i treat it like when I play golf, I'd rather wait on a group in front of me than hold someone up. But as I said before, it would be pretty rare for me to ever hold up a car.

You can also ride two by in a bike lane if it's big enough and still have room for cars to pass by easily, you should be able to touch the rider next to you. .

Also, with a group as big as in the videos, I wouldn't want them to all stop at a stop sign, would be like watching a train go by if you're behind them!

I drive about 50,000 miles a year and all over the country. I don't see what so many complain about either. It could just be that I am lucky. It could be that I am better at negotiating other road users. It could be that the complainers are being kinda casual with the truth.

It seems like each time I drill down, the latter is the case. Someone on one of these threads was complaining about a group of bicyclists as if they were a major PITA. I asked if the poster would give me an address of where the issue was. The poster said there was a bike lane on this particular road and that the speed limit was 50+ and there were steep hills obscuring visibility. I pulled Google maps. There was no bike lane. The speed limit signs I saw on Google street view on both sides of the provided address were 45MPH, and I traveled down the road on Google street view for a mile in each direction. There were no hills that would come close to obstructing visibility if drivers were anywhere close to the speed limit. I also pulled mapping elevation tools that confirmed the absence of such hills. Further, this was a town of less than 4000 people and the time was early morning. Something tells me the group of cyclists using one full lane of a divided 4 lane wasn't the problem the poster imagined they were.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I drive about 50,000 miles a year and all over the country. I don't see what so many complain about either. It could just be that I am lucky. It could be that I am better at negotiating other road users. It could be that the complainers are being kinda casual with the truth.

It seems like each time I drill down, the latter is the case. Someone on one of these threads was complaining about a group of bicyclists as if they were a major PITA. I asked if the poster would give me an address of where the issue was. The poster said there was a bike lane on this particular road and that the speed limit was 50+ and there were steep hills obscuring visibility. I pulled Google maps. There was no bike lane. The speed limit signs I saw on Google street view on both sides of the provided address were 45MPH, and I traveled down the road on Google street view for a mile in each direction. There were no hills that would come close to obstructing visibility if drivers were anywhere close to the speed limit. I also pulled mapping elevation tools that confirmed the absence of such hills. Further, this was a town of less than 4000 people and the time was early morning. Something tells me the group of cyclists using one full lane of a divided 4 lane wasn't the problem the poster imagined they were.
Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
Ran to grab breakfast this morning. Local cycling club was ridding 3-4 wide on a 4 lane road with rolling hills and 50 MPH speed limit. Of course they were not riding in the bicycle lane that they advocated heavily for a few years ago. If there is a cycle lane, itís use should be mandatory for bicycles, with absolutely no exceptions on roads where their speed is significantly slower than traffic. I get the argument to leave the lane when opening car doors can be hazardous, but in those instances bikes can typically hang with traffic with no issue. High speed roads with no on street parking, there is zero excuse to a bike to be anywhere other than their designated lane.

Christmas eve before last the same group had a small ride going on this same road and 2-3 members got ran the hell over when a car topped one of the hills looking into the sun. Rather than rethinking their stupidity, they barked on the news that motorists should slow down to well below the speed limit to accommodate them.
If you are going to call someone a liar, at least quote what they wrote correctly. Here is my post. Never did I mention "steep hills." I mentioned rolling hills along a high speed roadway, which you can clearly see in the street view picture. I will give you I got 2 things incorrectly. No, there are not "designated bike lanes". There are however nice wide shoulders, which bikes are allowed to ride on. They should get in them. Also, the speed limit in the area I was referring to is 55 MPH, not 50 MPH. Forget the 4,000 population thing. I gave you a point of reference of a location. It has a "Duncan" address. It is not in the city limits of Duncan, nor is the bulk of the population that has Duncan addresses. Then you have Moore, Woodruff, Spartanburg, Reidville, and Roebuck addresses all intermingled up and down 290 in the areas I have circled in blue. The population is much bigger than 4,000 people. In the past couple of years 6 (probably more) factories/distribution centers have been built on this stretch, including a massive carbon fiber plant, a factor that assembles excavators, 2 packaging factories, a Magna Automotive facility. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. At least that many more are under construction currently. That's all the dirt spots I have circled in red the satellite picture.

Some times of the day Hwy 290 looks like the street view picture. Other times it is basically an interstate.


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Old 08-14-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Don't we all break the law on a regular basis? Do you signal every turn and lane change? Do you always come to a complete stop at signs and right on reds? Never take any liberties with the speed limit?
Oh yeah I absolutely do rolling stops...anyone that says otherwise is lying.

What I'm talking about is running right through red lights or blowing through stop signs without even looking as the cyclists around here seem to enjoy doing.

Just a few years ago a doctor was killed riding his bike in the travel lanes of a 4 lane highway. Tragic, yes, but there's a bit of Darwinism at play there too. Hate to say that but it is true. Don't recall the details but it is a busy, congested highway at rush hour and involved an 18 wheeler that couldn't stop.

And the damndest thing is there's a freaking Greenway that runs alongside the highway!

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Old 08-14-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by NCSUboater View Post
Oh yeah I absolutely do rolling stops...anyone that says otherwise is lying.

What I'm talking about is running right through red lights or blowing through stop signs without even looking as the cyclists around here seem to enjoy doing.

Just a few years ago a doctor was killed riding his bike in the travel lanes of a 4 lane highway. Tragic, yes, but there's a bit of Darwinism at play there too. Hate to say that but it is true. Don't recall the details but it is a busy, congested highway at rush hour and involved an 18 wheeler that couldn't stop.

And the damndest thing is there's a freaking Greenway that runs alongside the highway!
Someone explain to me why cyclist view these as Kryptonite. Route I take to work has one that is in perfect shape, is plenty wide for 2 bikes side by side. It is designated for bikes and pedestrians, but pedestrians never are on it. Yet the cyclists play in traffic. Idiots.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by NCSUboater View Post
Oh yeah I absolutely do rolling stops...anyone that says otherwise is lying.

What I'm talking about is running right through red lights or blowing through stop signs without even looking as the cyclists around here seem to enjoy doing.

Just a few years ago a doctor was killed riding his bike in the travel lanes of a 4 lane highway. Tragic, yes, but there's a bit of Darwinism at play there too. Hate to say that but it is true. Don't recall the details but it is a busy, congested highway at rush hour and involved an 18 wheeler that couldn't stop.

And the damndest thing is there's a freaking Greenway that runs alongside the highway!
I have met some real idiots in my days, but I have never met an adult who would purposefully roll through any traffic control device without looking. I have never seen it either. Do you really believe they don't look and that it is a regular occurrence? I have done a fairly detailed breakdown on bicycle fatalities. A cyclist getting killed for failure to stop at a traffic control device is rare. Yet every time we get into these conversations multiple people say they see cyclists blow traffic control devices without looking on a regular basis. Either cyclists manage to miraculously cheat the odds year in and year out or folks might not be getting an accurate read on the situation.

Can you put me on a Google map of that location?
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by autobaun70 View Post
If you are going to call someone a liar, at least quote what they wrote correctly. Here is my post. Never did I mention "steep hills." I mentioned rolling hills along a high speed roadway, which you can clearly see in the street view picture. I will give you I got 2 things incorrectly. No, there are not "designated bike lanes". There are however nice wide shoulders, which bikes are allowed to ride on. They should get in them. Also, the speed limit in the area I was referring to is 55 MPH, not 50 MPH. Forget the 4,000 population thing. I gave you a point of reference of a location. It has a "Duncan" address. It is not in the city limits of Duncan, nor is the bulk of the population that has Duncan addresses. Then you have Moore, Woodruff, Spartanburg, Reidville, and Roebuck addresses all intermingled up and down 290 in the areas I have circled in blue. The population is much bigger than 4,000 people. In the past couple of years 6 (probably more) factories/distribution centers have been built on this stretch, including a massive carbon fiber plant, a factor that assembles excavators, 2 packaging factories, a Magna Automotive facility. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. At least that many more are under construction currently. That's all the dirt spots I have circled in red the satellite picture.

Some times of the day Hwy 290 looks like the street view picture. Other times it is basically an interstate.



I am not calling you a liar. I am telling you your facts were off. I asked for the location. You gave it to me. I did my homework and learned that you had your wires crossed about the bike lane. There is none. According to Google Street view, you were wrong about the speed limit for that location. You were also wrong about hills possibly obstructing vision to the extent that the cyclists couldn't be detected from a safe distance by a law abiding motorist. I deduced that from using an online mapping tool called Elevation Finder, an online mapping tool called Map My Ride and from using Google street view to explore out to a mile on either side of the location you gave me. With a moderately alert motorist traveling 50 MPH, it should take them about 200 feet to stop, and that is giving them a slow reaction time. That would also assume they were stopping for a stationary object, not one moving in the same direction at 20MPH. There is no place on 290 within a mile of the location you gave me where that is an issue. In fact on the entire stretch between the 221 and 85 there didn't appear to be. I am not even going to bother with trying to find the average traffic counts for that stretch for an early weekend morning, but I have a very strong hunch it's pretty sleepy through there at that time.

The simple fact of the matter is that the cyclists you mentioned were very unlikely to be a traffic issue for the users they shared the road with. Your perception led you to believe they were, but the facts don't support it.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:52 AM
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I don't all that often see them blatantly blowing red lights, but the groups do this with stop signs. Essentially the leader will look, and then the group will follow along. One particular intersection they do this at is Nazareth Church Rd. @ Anderson Mill Rd (Moore SC). Cars coming up Anderson Mill (often speeding) have a hard time seeing them as they approach coming from Hwy 290. Not to mention that along Anderson Mill Rd there is nowhere to safely pass. Yet they won't let vehicles stuck behind them get around before making their turn onto Anderson Mill, where there is also nowhere to pass along much of the road. Were they safe and courteous cyclist they would stop as a group at the intersection and allow all of those they have been holding up for almost 2 miles to go by before proceeding on their merry way.​​​​​​​



Route/Direction of Travel


Approach to intersection


Direction cyclists can't be bothered to look.
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I am not calling you a liar. I am telling you your facts were off. I asked for the location. You gave it to me. I did my homework and learned that you had your wires crossed about the bike lane. There is none. According to Google Street view, you were wrong about the speed limit for that location. You were also wrong about hills possibly obstructing vision to the extent that the cyclists couldn't be detected from a safe distance by a law abiding motorist. I deduced that from using an online mapping tool called Elevation Finder, an online mapping tool called Map My Ride and from using Google street view to explore out to a mile on either side of the location you gave me. With a moderately alert motorist traveling 50 MPH, it should take them about 200 feet to stop, and that is giving them a slow reaction time. That would also assume they were stopping for a stationary object, not one moving in the same direction at 20MPH. There is no place on 290 within a mile of the location you gave me where that is an issue. In fact on the entire stretch between the 221 and 85 there didn't appear to be. I am not even going to bother with trying to find the average traffic counts for that stretch for an early weekend morning, but I have a very strong hunch it's pretty sleepy through there at that time.

The simple fact of the matter is that the cyclists you mentioned were very unlikely to be a traffic issue for the users they shared the road with. Your perception led you to believe they were, but the facts don't support it.
Why are cyclists so opposed to riding on the shoulder, when it is plenty wide enough to do so, and in great shape? Idiotic to not do so. Or just get crunched by a truck........that seems smart.

The part you are missing regarding my perception is that morning time heading east you are staring into the rising sun, especially when heading up a hill. It is hard enough to see vehicles, much less bicycles. The ones that got hit along this stretch a couple of years ago were traveling the opposite direction as the sun set. Same issue, just the opposite direction at the tail end of the day. In this case they aren't a traffic issue at all, but they are a safety issue. The burden of not killing a hard to see cyclist is being shifted to motorist. Cyclist should take better care to be out of the path of traffic when conditions make it difficult to see them. No amount of reflective gear or blinking lights helps when you are approaching from the rear staring into the sun.
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