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Will the trend towards a police state ever reverse ?

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Will the trend towards a police state ever reverse ?

Old 02-22-2015, 06:06 AM
  #141  
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You'll have to excuse me if I've misinterpreted something, but I don't believe you know what a police state is. Does the government control your every move? Are you told what to think and say? Can you live where you chose? Can you pick your career? Do you have access to information outside government sources? Are you capable of criticizing the government? Can you leave this great country if you want to?

Are there laws that you have to follow? Yes. Are some of those laws onerous? Yes. Are some of them overreaching? Yes. But a police state? I don't think so.
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by OReely View Post
You'll have to excuse me if I've misinterpreted something, but I don't believe you know what a police state is. Does the government control your every move? Are you told what to think and say? Can you live where you chose? Can you pick your career? Do you have access to information outside government sources? Are you capable of criticizing the government? Can you leave this great country if you want to?

Are there laws that you have to follow? Yes. Are some of those laws onerous? Yes. Are some of them overreaching? Yes. But a police state? I don't think so.
I think that's the one thing that has been missing in this entire debate -- a true, agreed upon definition of what exactly is a "police state". Clearly, there are differing ideas of what it is and without having a baseline definition we will all continue arguing based on our own personal ideas rather than defined standards.

To start -- here's Websters Dicitionary -- "a political unit characterized by repressive governmental control of political, economic, and social life usually by an arbitrary exercise of power by police and especially secret police in place of regular operation of administrative and judicial organs of the government according to publicly known legal procedures"

Here's the wikipedia version --- "
Police state is a term denoting government that exercises power arbitrarily through the police. Originally the term designated a state regulated by a civil administration, but since the beginning of the 20th century, the term has "taken on the emotional and derogatory meaning."[1]
The inhabitants of a police state may experience restrictions on their mobility, or on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state.[2] Robert von Mohl, who first introduced the rule of law to German jurisprudence, contrasted the Rechtsstaat ("legal" or "constitutional" state) with the anti-aristocratic Polizeistaat ("police state").[3]"
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:31 AM
  #143  
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http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...newstopstories


Stuff like this doesn't get a pass
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:35 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
I kid you not someone called me two days ago because a neighbor was barb qing on their patio and it was supposedly against the Apartment complex rules and she really expected me to do somesomething..lol



Got a civil complaint one time over a $3.00 yes 3 $ blow job. Crackheads always provided a level of WTF
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bubblejunkie View Post
Got a civil complaint one time over a $3.00 yes 3 $ blow job. Crackheads always provided a level of WTF
I like the guys that flag me down to tell me they are missing their wallet. They freely admit they were with a prostitute. I ask for a home number, address and their name. I tell them I will write them a report but I will probably forget to ask them some detail and have to call the house to ask and I would hate to have the wife answer the phone and explain why I am calling. They usually prefer to make up their own lie instead to tell to the wife and leave saying "nevermind, " sometimes it does a soul good helping people out...
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Old 02-22-2015, 09:04 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Esuomm1 View Post
What do you want to do that you can't do now?
Ohhhh I don't know, maybe.....
)Own a automatic rifle
)Start a tax exempt conservative organization without being audited by the IRS
)Drive down the highway without being recorded by a dozen cameras
)Have a private phone conversation or send an email without it being recorded/monitored
)Pay taxes and not have them used against the best interest of me and my family
)Pay taxes and not have it given to people who are fully capable of providing for themselves
)Refuse to provide a business service if it is in violation of my religious beliefs without the threat of fine/imprisonment
)Be patriotic and love the foundational principles of my country without being labeled a possible domestic terrorist
)Choose whether or not to purchase healthcare without being monetarily penalized
)Elect statesman to office instead of filling the seat with the highest bidder
)Keep my Doctor.....and healthcare plan if I like it
.........and that's just the tip of the iceberg, but you get the idea.
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:38 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by Johnny Dreamer View Post
This is unforgivable.

The taxpayers paid for you to protect them. That was your job. Whether you needed the money or not does not matter. I am not sure if you worked for free as, from you car collection, we can all tell that you are wealthy, but if you did take pay, then give it back or keep quiet.

Nothing irks me more than a puffed up chest declaring they defended the freedoms and rights of an unseen and unknown American. You did your job and were compensated for it. The Americans you "defended" did their job by paying the taxes to pay for you to do the job you were tasked to do. Neither more important than the other.

How dare you ask them to pay the taxes that provide you with the resources to do your job and then question the very manner in which those resources are provided.

You were a government employee. Show some respect.
Amen brother.
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:40 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by coores14 View Post
I think that's the one thing that has been missing in this entire debate -- a true, agreed upon definition of what exactly is a "police state". Clearly, there are differing ideas of what it is and without having a baseline definition we will all continue arguing based on our own personal ideas rather than defined standards.

To start -- here's Websters Dicitionary -- "a political unit characterized by repressive governmental control of political, economic, and social life usually by an arbitrary exercise of power by police and especially secret police in place of regular operation of administrative and judicial organs of the government according to publicly known legal procedures"

Here's the wikipedia version --- "
Police state is a term denoting government that exercises power arbitrarily through the police. Originally the term designated a state regulated by a civil administration, but since the beginning of the 20th century, the term has "taken on the emotional and derogatory meaning."[1]
The inhabitants of a police state may experience restrictions on their mobility, or on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state.[2] Robert von Mohl, who first introduced the rule of law to German jurisprudence, contrasted the Rechtsstaat ("legal" or "constitutional" state) with the anti-aristocratic Polizeistaat ("police state").[3]"
Confiscation of 40% of my income feels arbitrary. Does that count?
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:42 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Hollywood9s View Post
Ohhhh I don't know, maybe.....
)Own a automatic rifle
)Start a tax exempt conservative organization without being audited by the IRS
)Drive down the highway without being recorded by a dozen cameras
)Have a private phone conversation or send an email without it being recorded/monitored
)Pay taxes and not have them used against the best interest of me and my family
)Pay taxes and not have it given to people who are fully capable of providing for themselves
)Refuse to provide a business service if it is in violation of my religious beliefs without the threat of fine/imprisonment
)Be patriotic and love the foundational principles of my country without being labeled a possible domestic terrorist
)Choose whether or not to purchase healthcare without being monetarily penalized
)Elect statesman to office instead of filling the seat with the highest bidder
)Keep my Doctor.....and healthcare plan if I like it
.........and that's just the tip of the iceberg, but you get the idea.
+1000

Also, keep your money....that you earn.
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:46 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by OldPete View Post
Scooter... I could write a book on LEO and NJ Government. The crap you see in the news is absolutely nothing. When you read about some NJ moron dropping $20 worth of dope on some poor slob on parole... what you're not reading about are the 100 people that he did it to before and all the "awards" he got for doing it!

The guy that you see stealing $1M worth of quarters from parking meters... LOL... that's chump change compared to the $10s of Millions that same scumbag's friend stole when he was tax collector... Never mind the millions he got paid along with the tax assessor for artificially low assessments.

Troopers would do a legit pinch on some street dealer... and then drop it in the car of some poor bastard on the Parkway... he's get two for one. It's horrible.

You get pulled over in NJ and you roll down your window for a trooper... it's like playing Russian Roulette with your future.
Does anyone disagree that this is reality?

Effing atrocious.
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:02 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by DotRotten View Post
Now it's the mental health cares fault? you're all over the place.

No, getting wrapped up in one of the police states never ending extortion schemes drives some people to suicide. Try and keep up.

"Involvement with the Criminal Justice System: In 2013, the percentage of American adults with serious suicidal thoughts: 10.7 percent for those on parole or a supervised release from jail in the past 12 months, 9.2 percent among those who were on probation, and 3.9 percent for those not involved in the criminal justice system. The percentage for adults with any mental illness: if on probation was 32.3 percent, if on parole or supervised release, 36.5 percent, double the percentage of adults not involved in the criminal justice system (18.3 percent). The percentage of adults with serious mental illness: if on probation was 9.4 percent, if on parole or supervised release was 13.9 percent, more than triple for those not involved in the criminal justice system (4.1 percent)."

What We Are Not Being Told About Suicide And Depression
http://www.alternet.org/personal-hea...and-depression
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:17 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by Iliveonboat View Post
No, getting screwed by the system getting wrapped up in one of the police states never ending extortion schemes drives some people to suicide. Try and keep up.

"Involvement with the Criminal Justice System: In 2013, the percentage of American adults with serious suicidal thoughts: 10.7 percent for those on parole or a supervised release from jail in the past 12 months, 9.2 percent among those who were on probation, and 3.9 percent for those not involved in the criminal justice system. The percentage for adults with any mental illness: if on probation was 32.3 percent, if on parole or supervised release, 36.5 percent, double the percentage of adults not involved in the criminal justice system (18.3 percent). The percentage of adults with serious mental illness: if on probation was 9.4 percent, if on parole or supervised release was 13.9 percent, more than triple for those not involved in the criminal justice system (4.1 percent)."

What We Are Not Being Told About Suicide And Depression
http://www.alternet.org/personal-hea...and-depression
Maybe they should not commit crimes. Many of the criminals already have mental issues before they are convicted of ANY crime that is why some of them can commit crimes because they are already not wired right. Sorry you cant lay that at the feet of the system...Most criminals are born into broken homes, some have mental issues, etc, etc. These are societal issues not justice system issues for the most part but keep trolling...
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
Maybe they should not commit crimes.
Come on, that's not fair.
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
Maybe they should not commit crimes. Many of the criminals already have mental issues before they are convicted of ANY crime that is why some of them can commit crimes because they are already not wired right. Sorry you cant lay that at the feet of the system...Most criminals are born into broken homes, some have mental issues, etc, etc. These are societal issues not justice system issues for the most part but keep trolling...
In my experience, it is the lack of a solid family unit that often contributes to one's involvement with our criminal justice system. I don't think this can be understated. The thugs in our community come from horrible homes. The good families, while their kids might screw the pooch sometimes, it's not a lifestyle.
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
Maybe they should not commit crimes. Many of the criminals already have mental issues before they are convicted of ANY crime that is why some of them can commit crimes because they are already not wired right. Sorry you cant lay that at the feet of the system...Most criminals are born into broken homes, some have mental issues, etc, etc. These are societal issues not justice system issues for the most part but keep trolling...
How do you define crime ?
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:28 PM
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This page of the thread needs a photo !

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Old 02-22-2015, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hooper View Post
In my experience, it is the lack of a solid family unit that often contributes to one's involvement with our criminal justice system. I don't think this can be understated. The thugs in our community come from horrible homes. The good families, while their kids might screw the pooch sometimes, it's not a lifestyle.

To me it looks alot more like this .

Get Out of Jail, Inc.

Cleveland’s troubles began in 2008, when a police roadblock went up in her neighborhood. She soon received several tickets for driving without insurance and without a license. “I knew it was wrong,” she told me, but she had to take her son to school and to travel to work...

But by that summer her total court costs and fines had soared from hundreds of dollars incurred by the initial tickets to $4,713, including more than a thousand dollars in private-probation fees...

Read more it gets worse http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...ut-of-jail-inc

Last edited by Iliveonboat; 02-22-2015 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:44 PM
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You do like extremes, dont you....You realize 99.8 percent of cops arent SWAT or tactical officers just patrolman....but cute picture, your way of dodging legitimate and spot on accessment...

BTW, The law defines a crime but if your in prison you probably commited a crime
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cracker View Post
You do like extremes, dont you....You realize 99.8 percent of cops arent SWAT or tactical officers just patrolman....but cute picture, your way of dodging legitimate and spot on accessment...

BTW, The law defines a crime but if your in prison you probably commited a crime

I find some dark humor in the fact that those who engage in victimless crime don’t create any real victims until they are put behind bars, at which point they allow the state to steal like $50,000 a year from the tax paying public.

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Old 02-22-2015, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Hooper View Post
In my experience, it is the lack of a solid family unit that often contributes to one's involvement with our criminal justice system. I don't think this can be understated. The thugs in our community come from horrible homes. The good families, while their kids might screw the pooch sometimes, it's not a lifestyle.
X2.........much of the problems that currently plague this country can be directly attributed to the breakdown of the family unit. I've seen plenty of it as well, and the reality is that more times than not a child will grow up to become a product of his environment.
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