Notices

Lien Laws

Old 11-06-2014, 07:18 AM
  #1  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
brickphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: newport/cape carteret nc
Posts: 5,037
Default Lien Laws

Got a troubled project going on currently. I'm a mason contractor hired by another mason contractor (first time ever being hired by another mason).

I've supplied all of the materials, approx. 70k worth and 50ish in labor.

Well I have not been paid per our verbal agreement to date, and I never signed the contract due to a few line items I didn't agree with. It was all very fast paced and contract was put on the back burner.

I spoke with the GC, and they pretty much said tough sheet! "we are not, under any laws, required to pay a second tier contractor. As we are not contractually bound to your company" The project is not one that a lien will do any good. Like a school, because it will never be sold or money borrowed against.

So, is there anyone here with experience into what I can do to get my money?

I normally have my retained attorney do this. The problem is, it cost around 4k last time and took a year to collect from the bonding company. (this project is not bonded)

Anybody?
brickphil is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 07:23 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
bogue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Newport, NC
Posts: 4,719
Default

Damn Brick! Hate to hear that. Hope things work out.
bogue is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 07:26 AM
  #3  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Middle Sound, NC
Posts: 1,674
Default

fine a notice with the projects lien agent ASAP. you can create an account on liensnc.com and search for the project. If the project has to get permanently financed with some sort of mortgage, you claim will have to be resolved. I hope it has been less than 120 days since you supplied labor and/or materials. (in fact, you should file a notice on every job you work on, its easy, and i'm pretty sure there is an app that lets you scan a qr code on the notice at the jobsite and register with the lien agent.)

They changed the lien laws last year, so you should consult an attorney, but you may also be able to fine a Lien of Funds of the project. This will require the project owner to hold an amount equal to your claim out of the GC's check.

You need to get a specialist with this working for you. 120k is a lot of $. Hire a very competent construction lawyer. Your clock is ticking, act quickly.
wahoo wacker is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 07:28 AM
  #4  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 2,398
Default

Sorry to hear you're getting screwed. Although this isn't my area, I'm an attorney. Talk to your lawyer about it. If he worked for a year and got you the money and only charged you $4,000 last time, he's pretty cheap. Best of luck.
Graddy-fied is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 07:28 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Folly Beach, SC
Posts: 1,807
Default

Originally Posted by wahoo wacker View Post
fine a notice with the projects lien agent ASAP. you can create an account on liensnc.com and search for the project. If the project has to get permanently financed with some sort of mortgage, you claim will have to be resolved. I hope it has been less than 120 days since you supplied labor and/or materials.

They changed the lien laws last year, so you should consult an attorney, but you may also be able to fine a Lien of Funds of the project. This will require the project owner to hold an amount equal to your claim out of the GC's check.

You need to get a specialist with this working for you. 120k is a lot of $. Hire a very competent construction lawyer. Your clock is ticking, act quickly.
x2...I hope everything works out. That's a lot of scratch.
Trollin4Tuna is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 07:34 AM
  #6  
THT SponsorCaptains Club Member
THT sponsor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wisconsin And Marathon,Fl
Posts: 8,432
Default

Originally Posted by Graddy-fied View Post
Sorry to hear you're getting screwed. Although this isn't my area, I'm an attorney. Talk to your lawyer about it. If he worked for a year and got you the money and only charged you $4,000 last time, he's pretty cheap. Best of luck.
Sorry to hear that.

But think about it $120K verses $4K That kind of money deserves professional advice.
mikeloew is online now  
Old 11-06-2014, 08:49 AM
  #7  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Dead Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: OIB
Posts: 4,748
Default

i know ill be called an asshole for this -but

who in hell does 120k worth of work without a contract---????---
Dead Horse is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 09:04 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
freeporttuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Long Island
Posts: 9,897
Default

freeporttuna is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 09:08 AM
  #9  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
brickphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: newport/cape carteret nc
Posts: 5,037
Default

Originally Posted by Dead Horse View Post
i know ill be called an asshole for this -but

who in hell does 120k worth of work without a contract---????---

Per NC labor laws, I'm protected, as I performed the labor and provided the materials with no set amounts. NC labor laws protect a sub-contractor. The contract is in place to protect the hiring contractor.

I knew this, so for me it was not as important as it should have been for the company that hired me.


That's why most GC's will NEVER allow you (A sub-contractor) to step foot on a on and start a project, without a binding contract.
brickphil is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 10:21 AM
  #10  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Middle Sound, NC
Posts: 1,674
Default

Originally Posted by brickphil View Post
Per NC labor laws, I'm protected, as I performed the labor and provided the materials with no set amounts. NC labor laws protect a sub-contractor. The contract is in place to protect the hiring contractor.

I knew this, so for me it was not as important as it should have been for the company that hired me.


That's why most GC's will NEVER allow you (A sub-contractor) to step foot on a on and start a project, without a binding contract.
you have much less protection than you think since you are a second tier sub-contractor. You have no direct line to lien the property unless you give notice of a potential lien claim and that notice was ignored by the rest in the chain of the contract with the owner.

Spend the $ on the best construction lawyer you can afford and be aggressive with it.

I have seen this time and time again.
wahoo wacker is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:01 AM
  #11  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,872
Default

At the very least you need to file a materials lien, NOW. As for the labor portion, you may need to pursue that into civil court but the materials are considered hard value.
Bailey Boat is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:11 AM
  #12  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jupiter, Florida
Posts: 5,874
Default

Ok, not sure of the laws up there, but they are pretty similar around the country. Here in florida, you have 45 days from starting the job to serve your notice to owner on the owner of the property. there should be a notice of commencement recorded either with the court clerk or building department that will identify the owner and whoever else is to be served with notices. If you dont do it within 45 days, you lose your lien rights entirely. If you get within the 45 day period, then you have 90 days after last performing work to record your lien and then 1 year after that to enforce it through a lawsuit. there are a couple of other special situations, but that about covers it.

If you blew the 45 day notice to owner or 90 day lien recording, you have no lien rights. You still have contractual rights and a quantum meruit claim. The problem is that with a lien, you can recover your attorney's fees. without, you can't in most jurisdictions. but, if you are out 120K you should be able to find a lawyer to go after these people. file a breach of contract claim, quantum meruit, unjust enrichment and try for a prejudgment writ of attachment on the proceeds the owner would pay to the general contractor. You might have to have a bond for that, but unless you can give up the 120k, what choice do you have?
In florida, we can serve a 57.105 motion for a frivolous defense, or a proposal for settlement, that can trigger the recovery of attorney's fees if done correctly. if you are a corporation, you will have to hire a lawyer anyway, so get to it. time is not your friend.

Last edited by manitunc; 11-06-2014 at 11:13 AM. Reason: typo
manitunc is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:11 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,428
Default

Time is essential. Hopefully it hasn't been 120 days since you supplied labor or materials to the job. You do have rights as a second tier sub in NC. Your material supplier may be able to file a material lien. The weight of their threat may sit a little heavier on the guy not paying. As in, no materials from this supplier will be furnished to X contractor or owner moving forward. A lien vs. can't buy materials locally anymore have very different consequences. Word travels fast about who is cut off and why. Nobody wants to chance being left out to dry. It should be beating a dead horse telling you to never go to work without a contract. Too often contractors get reminded of why. Good luck!
Blythe1022 is offline  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:18 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lusby, MD
Posts: 1,020
Default

Get a jackhammer and start taking your bricks back.
Barefoot is online now  
Old 11-06-2014, 11:19 AM
  #15  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
brickphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: newport/cape carteret nc
Posts: 5,037
Default

Originally Posted by wahoo wacker View Post
you have much less protection than you think since you are a second tier sub-contractor. You have no direct line to lien the property unless you give notice of a potential lien claim and that notice was ignored by the rest in the chain of the contract with the owner.

Spend the $ on the best construction lawyer you can afford and be aggressive with it.

I have seen this time and time again.
That doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies. I did speak to my attorney and he wants me to get him all of the contacts involved as well as project info.

And I have to go meet him at 11 tomorrow. We'll see.....

Thanks for the info.
brickphil is offline  
Old 11-07-2014, 03:08 AM
  #16  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dartmouth MA
Posts: 5,759
Default

Good luck Brickphil. I hate to hear about shit like this in the industry.
mymojo is offline  
Old 11-07-2014, 03:24 AM
  #17  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: norton ma.
Posts: 1,308
Default

you also need to attach the guy who hired you .
t4000 is offline  
Old 11-07-2014, 03:40 AM
  #18  
jwb
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: connecticut
Posts: 1,685
Default

I am a mechanical contractor. I have found that a general doesn't want liens, lawsuits, etc. On his job. He doesn't want the building owner to hear about such things. Have the attorney send something on his letterhead to your contractor who owes you as well as the general implying that the building owner will somehow be dragged in as well (lien, law suit, etc.) Even if a lien won't work the general when he sees your serious, may put pressure on your sub to pay up.
Obviously, stop all work as well. This can affect the general's schedule.
Good luck. Hope it works out.
jwb is offline  
Old 11-07-2014, 03:52 AM
  #19  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Between Richmond and Williamsburg
Posts: 2,964
Default

Have you done something wrong? Shoddy work? What's the reason for not being paid?
twobyfour is offline  
Old 11-07-2014, 04:00 AM
  #20  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
brickphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: newport/cape carteret nc
Posts: 5,037
Default

Originally Posted by twobyfour View Post
Have you done something wrong? Shoddy work? What's the reason for not being paid?
I found out yesterday most of the work has been paid for, to the company that hired me.

But to answer your question, I am done 100percent and punched out the architects list. In other words....its been accepted, so nothing to do with workmanship.
brickphil is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread