Go Back  The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > Dockside Chat
Reload this Page >

realtor "procuring cause" question

Notices

realtor "procuring cause" question

Old 07-14-2014, 10:48 AM
  #1  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somewhere NC
Posts: 8,096
Default realtor "procuring cause" question

long story short, we were working with a realtor in NC we met at an open house in a subdivision we were considering building a house in. we met with the realtor and builder 1 time during negotiations, but that transaction didn't work out, and we pursued a lot in another subdivision without any guidance from the realtor and WITHOUT signing anything. There was some email correspondence where I asked the realtor for his help in the 1st subdivision, but my wife and I found the other subdivision on our own, worked out the pricing agreement on our own, selected the lot, etc without any help from the realtor.

my wife and I chose another realtor to list our current home, and I also wanted his help with the new home build/purchase. told old realtor from before we chose another realtor moving forward, and he attacks my integrity and mentions something about procuring cause. I didn't like how he ended things at the first subdivision, and I in no way feel obligated to allow him to make commission off of me.

if I never signed anything, does email correspondence suffice as a binding realty agreement in NC? or can I tell the guy how I really feel??
cfarmd is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 10:52 AM
  #2  
Admirals Club
 
Ronn Burgandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Where the wild things are
Posts: 15,108
Default

http://realtormag.realtor.org/law-an...-who-gets-paid

Sand. Tell him to pound it.
Ronn Burgandy is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 10:54 AM
  #3  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somewhere NC
Posts: 8,096
Default

Originally Posted by Ronn Burgandy View Post
on a roll Ron I responded to the wind-on thread as well
cfarmd is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 10:59 AM
  #4  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somewhere NC
Posts: 8,096
Default

and I suppose my real question is what effect will this have on me?

in my opinion it appears to be a problem of who gets what in commission, which is a realtor to realtor problem not mine?
cfarmd is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 11:03 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lake Murray, SC
Posts: 4,234
Default

It is a not your problem
jrolin1 is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 12:15 PM
  #6  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lewes, DE
Posts: 10,263
Default

Originally Posted by Ronn Burgandy View Post
Likely this, but I am uncertain as to NC law.

I'm a Realtor in DE, and there would only be an argument procuring cause if you discussed the property you did end up purchasing.

It depends all on the agency law in NC. If it were DE you would have been made to sign a disclosure form stating your intentions for the agent (including if you did not want to bind to agency) to make it clear who does, or doesn't represent who.

Moral of the story, don't have people spend time working for you if you have no intention of paying for services rendered.

Also, how were there negotiations with nothing signed?

My professional opinion is you kinda screwed him over, but he is not entitled to procuring cause on the second property.
TorFed is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 12:31 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Seefood Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,672
Default

Originally Posted by TorFed View Post
Likely this, but I am uncertain as to NC law.

I'm a Realtor in DE, and there would only be an argument procuring cause if you discussed the property you did end up purchasing.

It depends all on the agency law in NC. If it were DE you would have been made to sign a disclosure form stating your intentions for the agent (including if you did not want to bind to agency) to make it clear who does, or doesn't represent who.

Moral of the story, don't have people spend time working for you if you have no intention of paying for services rendered.

Also, how were there negotiations with nothing signed?

My professional opinion is you kinda screwed him over, but he is not entitled to procuring cause on the second property.
long story short, we were working with a realtor in NC we met at an open house in a subdivision we were considering building a house in. we met with the realtor and builder 1 time during negotiations, but that transaction didn't work out,

IMHO and I'm not a realtor; Meeting once with a person doesn't constitute a working relationship. It is just the cost of doing business.
Seefood Man is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 12:41 PM
  #8  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somewhere NC
Posts: 8,096
Default

Originally Posted by TorFed View Post
Likely this, but I am uncertain as to NC law.

I'm a Realtor in DE, and there would only be an argument procuring cause if you discussed the property you did end up purchasing.

It depends all on the agency law in NC. If it were DE you would have been made to sign a disclosure form stating your intentions for the agent (including if you did not want to bind to agency) to make it clear who does, or doesn't represent who.

Moral of the story, don't have people spend time working for you if you have no intention of paying for services rendered.

Also, how were there negotiations with nothing signed?

My professional opinion is you kinda screwed him over, but he is not entitled to procuring cause on the second property.
I agree with everything you said. again, I was not exactly pleased with how he ended things at the first development (he became somewhat pushy and wasn't really listening to me). he spent a small amount of time with that one meeting, and honestly didn't do much else as I am anal about details and took care of most of that directly with the builder. he did absolutely nothing to help at the new development, which isn't his fault but I didn't need him. yes he put in a little time and I understand it was his time, but that's also the nature of real estate
cfarmd is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 12:42 PM
  #9  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somewhere NC
Posts: 8,096
Default

Originally Posted by Seefood Man View Post
long story short, we were working with a realtor in NC we met at an open house in a subdivision we were considering building a house in. we met with the realtor and builder 1 time during negotiations, but that transaction didn't work out,

IMHO and I'm not a realtor; Meeting once with a person doesn't constitute a working relationship. It is just the cost of doing business.
right, I never signed anything to make it binding
cfarmd is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 12:59 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Home of the Pirates
Posts: 1,480
Default

Originally Posted by TorFed View Post

Moral of the story, don't have people spend time working for you if you have no intention of paying for services rendered.
^ Don't see where this applies to the OP in this case.

So a customer calls your number off a sign in a yard of a property you have listed. Are you going to charge him for the showing if he doesn't buy?
TheBobcat is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 12:59 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,001
Default

Originally Posted by TorFed View Post
Likely this, but I am uncertain as to NC law.

I'm a Realtor in DE, and there would only be an argument procuring cause if you discussed the property you did end up purchasing.

It depends all on the agency law in NC. If it were DE you would have been made to sign a disclosure form stating your intentions for the agent (including if you did not want to bind to agency) to make it clear who does, or doesn't represent who.

Moral of the story, don't have people spend time working for you if you have no intention of paying for services rendered.

Also, how were there negotiations with nothing signed?

My professional opinion is you kinda screwed him over, but he is not entitled to procuring cause on the second property.
Why do realtors think this? He met about potentially doing business together. Realtor's are the worse IMO.
Okiefisherman is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 01:06 PM
  #12  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somewhere NC
Posts: 8,096
Default

Originally Posted by Okiefisherman View Post
Why do realtors think this? He met about potentially doing business together. Realtor's are the worse IMO.
I am a man of my word and uphold the importance of integrity. I never signed anything for this exact reason. I didn't waste any of the realtors time, as I am sure he gets paid while manning the open houses. If not, that's his decision. The quality of the homes was simply not what we wanted and as soon as we realized this (same builder in both subdivisions interesting story there too) I broke contact with him so as to not further take up his time. I'd guess he spent a total of 3 hours working on this, and now he wants a check for $9500 for his time? na
cfarmd is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 01:47 PM
  #13  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lewes, DE
Posts: 10,263
Default

Originally Posted by Okiefisherman View Post
Why do realtors think this? He met about potentially doing business together. Realtor's are the worse IMO.
Not at all what happened, but that is ok. He met and then set up a meeting where numbers and a transaction were negotiated, ultimately unable to come to a conclusion. Maybe your reading comprehension skills aren't too polished.

Originally Posted by cfarmd View Post
long story short, we were working with a realtor in NC we met at an open house in a subdivision we were considering building a house in. we met with the realtor and builder 1 time during negotiations, but that transaction didn't work out, and we pursued a lot in another subdivision without any guidance from the realtor and WITHOUT signing anything. There was some email correspondence where I asked the realtor for his help in the 1st subdivision, but my wife and I found the other subdivision on our own, worked out the pricing agreement on our own, selected the lot, etc without any help from the realtor.
?
So you met and talked with him at an open house. Then you had a scheduled meeting, and negotiations were done. In addition you had email correspondence, which, if it was just to set up a meeting is one thing, but if he is researching values and actually doing work to find information to give you, that is is another.

I was going to ask why you used a different agent for the other transaction, but you answered that. If the guy was nice, polite, and decent, I would hope you would have stayed with him regardless of binding contracts. Sounds like he was a dick, so you moved on, totally understandable.

There are a lot of bad Realtors out there. I see it a lot. However, we are in a business where people often go out of their way to screw us over. That is why we ask for agency agreements to be signed. I have been in multiple board hearings and courtrooms because of clients screwing me over. Multiple times, I have spent months showing people properties and negotiating contracts only to have them vanish. 6 months later I find out they bought a house I showed them and talked to the owner, who agreed to lower the price if an agent wasn't involved, so they dumped me.

Hell, I recently showed someone a large, expensive property five times. He refused to sign anything. This week he goes radio silent. If the guy wants a different house, that is fine. Go for it, but after I busted my ass for you to not have the common decency to return a call or email to let me know that is the case is just bad form and what we constantly deal with.
TorFed is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 01:53 PM
  #14  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lewes, DE
Posts: 10,263
Default

Originally Posted by cfarmd View Post
I am a man of my word and uphold the importance of integrity. I never signed anything for this exact reason. I didn't waste any of the realtors time, as I am sure he gets paid while manning the open houses. If not, that's his decision. The quality of the homes was simply not what we wanted and as soon as we realized this (same builder in both subdivisions interesting story there too) I broke contact with him so as to not further take up his time. I'd guess he spent a total of 3 hours working on this, and now he wants a check for $9500 for his time? na
We don't get paid to do open houses. We work on 100% commission basis. Hell, if there was food at the open, he paid to have it.

When you broke contact, did you inform him you were going another direction, or just 'vanish'?

Did he work for the builder/does he have a contract with the builder? If so, he may have an argument for getting paid depending on their arrangement.

The $9,500 would not come out of your pocket, however. It would come from the agent that represented you. Really the argument should be between the two agents, largely leaving you out of it.
TorFed is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 02:04 PM
  #15  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somewhere NC
Posts: 8,096
Default

Originally Posted by TorFed View Post
We don't get paid to do open houses. We work on 100% commission basis. Hell, if there was food at the open, he paid to have it.

When you broke contact, did you inform him you were going another direction, or just 'vanish'?

Did he work for the builder/does he have a contract with the builder? If so, he may have an argument for getting paid depending on their arrangement.

The $9,500 would not come out of your pocket, however. It would come from the agent that represented you. Really the argument should be between the two agents, largely leaving you out of it.
I informed him as soon as I knew. Yes he has a contract with the builder. And it is actually the same builder in both subdivisions. I agree with it being agent-agent but I don't feel he did $9500 worth of "work" on our behalf
cfarmd is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 02:08 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,001
Default

TorFed I deal with realtors in my line of work. So I know how the system works, but he doesn't owe that realtor anything. Anyone except a "realtor" would know that. Then again maybe this guy was a real estate agent and not a "realtor" psssh.
Okiefisherman is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 02:49 PM
  #17  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 1,904
Default

So if you are out shopping for new BMW's and change you mind and buy a Benz, do you owe the BMW salesman anything?
BarryD is online now  
Old 07-14-2014, 02:53 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Seefood Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 11,672
Default

LMAO $9,500
Seefood Man is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 02:56 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NC/GA
Posts: 5,914
Default

If so, he may have an argument for getting paid depending on their arrangement.

Why would there be an argument? Whatever the 'arrangement' between realtor and a builder is, well, is between the realtor and builder. Seems in this case this would be no different from shopping for as mattrress at a home store. Meet with the salesperson and a factory rep demonstrates an interest to purchase, not an order for anything. Guaranteed it would have been 'no paperwork, no deal' if the realter had backed off. And they sometimes do. Hunger sometimes gets the best of some realtors ...
Curmudgeon is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 03:12 PM
  #20  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 61
Default

Originally Posted by okiefisherman View Post
torfed i deal with realtors in my line of work. So i know how the system works, but he doesn't owe that realtor anything. Anyone except a "realtor" would know that. Then again maybe this guy was a real estate agent and not a "realtor" psssh.

x1000
9082andy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread