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Natural Gas line estimate...

Old 02-13-2014, 02:33 PM
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Default Natural Gas line estimate...

I'm replacing my electric cooktop with NG. I'm told I need to have a 1" NG line run from my meter to the stove area.

I've got one estimate (over $1,400) and I can't seem to get other plumbers out to get another estimate or two, so I thought I'd pose the particulars here to see if the $1,400 is out of line. Seems a little price to me, but what the hell do I know.

Approx 60' total run, 15' or so is outside would be galv, the rest would be flexible to the shutoff under the counter.
It runs thru the attic space down an inside wall to stove. no real obstructions. I would be responsible for any sheet rock repairs. Doubtful there will be any tho.

What say ye? Too high? Not high enough? Just about right?
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:25 PM
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i swapped out the orifices (orifii?) on mine and used pex to connect to a propane bottle, cost me about $15 plus the 10gallon bottle, which literally lasts for months

if thats the only gas appliance, i'd consider it
$1400 will buy 430 gallons of propane
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:26 PM
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Way too high. Should be about 600. 2 men, about 3-1/2 hrs work. 100 for materials. You don't need 1" for a stove. 1/2" would be fine
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:34 PM
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My gas top requires 3/4 inch - if he is 8 burner it might be 1"...
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:40 PM
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Some high end stoves need 1" if it's a multiple six or more burner cook top suchbas viking equioment .As far as price it's about a one hour job for a pro . Ask for CSST corrugated stainless steel tubing 2 - fittings and a valve show over 250 in pipe and material 1-2 hours labor in using travel around 500 would be a good price .tubing could be run in 15 minutes. Plumbers who suggest galvanized are laborers posing as a professional natural gas and galvanize don't mix. CSST cuts down on labor and has no connection except terminations. Don't have to worry about corrosion with stainless plus is has protective coating applied. Some areas require it be grounded to protect from lightning strikes
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:02 PM
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I had an irrigation (sprinkler) company do the trench work, then asked the plumbers to bid. Mine was a much longer run and the savings was substantial.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:17 PM
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Piping Materials
Plastic Piping
Plastic fuel gas piping is made of a polyethylene material. This is the
same material used to manufacture pex plumbing piping. Because of
the nature of this product it is only approved for exterior underground
use. Because of it’s cost and flexibility this product is mainly used as
gas mains and supply line by the local gas suppliers. It can be installed
as part of the customers piping system but is limited to supplying gas to
outdoor grills and lighting fixtures.

************************************************** ************

***check local code before using plastic pipe for gas***

************************************************** ****************

You could go to Home Depot and buy the black iron pipe for outside. Then find a supplier of "trac pipe" to run under the house. Run the piping yourself and have the gas co. do a leak check. There is usually a minimum length of trac pipe you can buy and the fittings are a little expensive but I believe you would come out a lot less than $1400.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Frma2z View Post
Some high end stoves need 1" if it's a multiple six or more burner cook top suchbas viking equioment .As far as price it's about a one hour job for a pro . Ask for CSST corrugated stainless steel tubing 2 - fittings and a valve show over 250 in pipe and material 1-2 hours labor in using travel around 500 would be a good price .tubing could be run in 15 minutes. Plumbers who suggest galvanized are laborers posing as a professional natural gas and galvanize don't mix. CSST cuts down on labor and has no connection except terminations. Don't have to worry about corrosion with stainless plus is has protective coating applied. Some areas require it be grounded to protect from lightning strikes
I would have to disagree with using csst. I do not do natural gas piping or plumbing, but rather I install lightning protection. We are seeing a lot of failures with using csst. Just search csst failures and you will see what I mean. The walls of the csst tubing is so thin that there is a potential that the tubing will puncture and cause a small leak which basically turns into a constant flame in your attic or basement that could potentially burn down your entire house. There has been a big push for the csst tubing lately, and speaking to some of the installers, it seems like it is mainly because of the ease of installation for them. I have seen 2 failures in my area on multi million dollar homes that were lucky enough to be caught early.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:54 PM
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Older model CSST may have had some strike issues but the new Strike Free CSST to my knowledge has proven to be trouble free. It will have a lightning bolt symbol on a black casing . Installed properly is the key issue here..As a plumber we find most problems with any material is usually a mistake made by an inexperienced installer or by electricians that don't want to properly ground their systems by grounding to plumbing pipes. Plumbing is not a ground for electricians to use Drive a ground
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:59 PM
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The above with CSST is correct. Do not use the old yellow cased csst without lightning protection on a seperate ground ride. The new CSST (flashsheild, the black double insulated stuff) is much better with lightning strikes, and requires grounding. All CSST is to be used above ground only, not rated for underground use.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:06 PM
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Well you learn something new ever day thank you. I have not seen the new csst yet but will look into it for sure. I agree 100% that it should not be used as a dedicated ground. But it is required to be bonded back to the electrical or lightning protection systems to create equal potential between the systems. So if you see an electrical cable attached to the natural gas line it does not necessarily mean that they are trying to use it as a ground. Unfortunately as with any trade there are lazy people that will try to save time/money and cut corners.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by FLNativeSnook View Post
Well you learn something new ever day thank you. I have not seen the new csst yet but will look into it for sure. I agree 100% that it should not be used as a dedicated ground. But it is required to be bonded back to the electrical or lightning protection systems to create equal potential between the systems. So if you see an electrical cable attached to the natural gas line it does not necessarily mean that they are trying to use it as a ground. Unfortunately as with any trade there are lazy people that will try to save time/money and cut corners.
THT family's always here to help with best of intentions ..I'm glad to see you are in the lightning protection arena. It is an area that needs more people protecting our largest investments ,our homes and business.. You are correct it should be run back to to a dedicated ground as I see lately becoming more common in the workplace.. We have had cases in which lightning has struck the exhaust of a water heater through the roof and has traveled back to heater and gas line unfortunate that an electrician piggy backed our gas line coz he liked the way we supported our work it burnt the casing on service main arced across 2" steel gas mains and the rest is history including the loss of a 12 unit apt building
CSST has come a long way including it's approved use underground . Materials change daily in the plumbing industry. This change was for the better
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:23 PM
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I think I paid about 15 dollars a foot for the underground plastic gas line 3/4 inch
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by oceanelectric1 View Post
I think I paid about 15 dollars a foot for the underground plastic gas line 3/4 inch
Man that's way high...we use IPS (polyethylene) for the long runs because it's cheaper than copper. The problem with IPS on a yard line is the risers, they end up being about 150$ each...then again, I work propane, some of those Natgas companies kill you on the yardline installation.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:44 PM
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It's gonna be a 4 burner cooktop. Nothing fancy. So galv & NG dont mix huh? I'm used to seeing black pipe with gas, painted or labeled in yellow.
Much to learn I see.

Thanks for the input so far.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by outerbanxer View Post
Man that's way high...we use IPS (polyethylene) for the long runs because it's cheaper than copper. The problem with IPS on a yard line is the risers, they end up being about 150$ each...then again, I work propane, some of those Natgas companies kill you on the yardline installation.
Yeah they got you by the balls when it is permitted and I was bringing in natural to the house for Generator, dryer,and instant hot water heater.
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Snoozin View Post
It's gonna be a 4 burner cooktop. Nothing fancy. So galv & NG dont mix huh? I'm used to seeing black pipe with gas, painted or labeled in yellow.
Much to learn I see.

Thanks for the input so far.
You could either run 3/4 or 1/2" pipe for a normal stove I would run regular black pipe from the meter in the price you were quoted is way to high the entire job will take about 2-4 hours and about 150 in material if that., don't know how handy you are but it something that can be done by a homeowner. If you do it just do a meter dial test along with soap water test to check for leaks
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by FLNativeSnook View Post
Well you learn something new ever day thank you. I have not seen the new csst yet but will look into it for sure. I agree 100% that it should not be used as a dedicated ground. But it is required to be bonded back to the electrical or lightning protection systems to create equal potential between the systems. So if you see an electrical cable attached to the natural gas line it does not necessarily mean that they are trying to use it as a ground. Unfortunately as with any trade there are lazy people that will try to save time/money and cut corners.
X2.

I just finished a 4 story townhomes. 2 HVAC systems. Basement and roof. My gas line to the roof had to be grounded to the gas manifold in the basement mounted to concrete foundation and I needed another run from manifold to Electrical grounding rod. Ake sure the plumber runs a line to a grounding rod. I used #6 copper..

The price is a little steep but nobody is going to do it for $500 including materials unless they are a unlicensed uninsured hack.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Snoozin View Post
I'm replacing my electric cooktop with NG. I'm told I need to have a 1" NG line run from my meter to the stove area.

I've got one estimate (over $1,400) and I can't seem to get other plumbers out to get another estimate or two, so I thought I'd pose the particulars here to see if the $1,400 is out of line. Seems a little price to me, but what the hell do I know.

Approx 60' total run, 15' or so is outside would be galv, the rest would be flexible to the shutoff under the counter.
It runs thru the attic space down an inside wall to stove. no real obstructions. I would be responsible for any sheet rock repairs. Doubtful there will be any tho.

What say ye? Too high? Not high enough? Just about right?
When you say flexible, do you mean Trac pipe?
No one respectable would do the work for 500.00.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sharktripper View Post
Way too high. Should be about 600. 2 men, about 3-1/2 hrs work. 100 for materials. You don't need 1" for a stove. 1/2" would be fine
You shouldn't make a comment like that, it has no merit. You cannot run 60' of 1/2" pipe to a stove when the minimum btu of a stove would be apprx 30,000btu. You would not have the volume to produce the proper flame and it would carbonize. To properly size the gas piping, you would need to know the btu input of the stove. If the stove is in fact 30,000 btu it requires a 3/4" line and you are running it 60'. That being said, if I were running the line, I would suggest running it in 1" as the material cost between 1" and 3/4" is marginal. Running it in 1" would enable tees to be branched off in future to other appliances. You cannot state it would take 3-1/2 hours work as you do not see the job conditions and I would like to purchase the materials from you for $100

Price it at HD for shits and giggles
4-10' 1" black pipe
12-1" blk fttgs 90's st 90's etc
10-1" black nipples
hanging materials
1-1" gal tee
6-1" gal fittings
6-1" gal nipples
1-1" gas cock
1-1x3/4" black tee
1-3/4x3/8 blk 90
1-3/4" gas cock
1-3/4" gas flex

Air Testing of line should be about 1/2 hour labor

Threading machine to cut threads

Truck expense

Compensation Insurance

Having a competent plumber installing the gas piping... priceless!

$1400 for a competent plumber to do the installation sound about right. They usually allow themselves room of 100-200 on a job like that.
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