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LED Experts... Recessed Lighting Experts... or Both. :)

Old 12-28-2013, 11:18 AM
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Default LED Experts... Recessed Lighting Experts... or Both. :)

Anyone have any experience with these "Ultra Thin LED Recessed Lighting" system?

Stuff like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/9W-12W-15W-1...81196333065%26

I've got a few spots where the precise spot I'd like to put a can will be in the way of lathe or a truss... I also like the operational savings...

Is LED really all it's cracked up to be? I know we have several people here that make their living in this arena...

Thanks,
Pete
Old 12-28-2013, 12:12 PM
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Pete, all LED in my house. Not sure of savings but nice light. You pay up big time for the high lumen sunlight bulbs though vs. the cheaper ones. We did the old house that way too. I think in south florida at least the kitchen should be LED. Halogens would raise the temp 5 degrees or more before we remodelled in the old place.
Old 12-28-2013, 12:25 PM
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I'm a licensed GC, just did a complete LED retro-fit in a 200,000 sq ft building, including the parking lot, skate park and soccer arena. Float me some cash and I'll give you the skinny on what's really happening. LED's aren't all they're cracked up to be, especially in savings which a cheap bastard like you is looking for.
Old 12-28-2013, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by joe.giuliano View Post
Pete, all LED in my house. Not sure of savings but nice light. You pay up big time for the high lumen sunlight bulbs though vs. the cheaper ones. We did the old house that way too. I think in south florida at least the kitchen should be LED. Halogens would raise the temp 5 degrees or more before we remodelled in the old place.
I *really* want to try these low profile lights... I'm thinking I may buy a 4 pack and see what I think. The fact that I could literally put them anywhere I want is very attractive to me. If I save some money that's great too. Hmmmm... yeah, I'll use my son's room as a trial and go from there.
Old 12-28-2013, 02:14 PM
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I hear al gore gets 5 cents for every led you buy.
Old 12-28-2013, 03:53 PM
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Go ahead and load your shack up with LED's CheapPete, I'm willing to bet you won't see a cost savings in your life time unless you're 6 yrs old, which sometimes I believe you are.
Old 12-28-2013, 03:59 PM
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I put them in my kitchen. I like the light better, its brighter and more "white" than traditional recessed lighting. That being said I didn't do it to save money. Sure they use less electricity but they cost alot more up front.
Old 12-28-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BACK TO REELALITY View Post
I put them in my kitchen. I like the light better, its brighter and more "white" than traditional recessed lighting. That being said I didn't do it to save money. Sure they use less electricity but they cost alot more up front.
I'm seeing a cost of $40 a light... for the 20-something watt models. (If I buy them 4 at a time, which is perfect for my applications) ($160). By the time I do traditional cans with the LED kits, I'd have to pay more AND I *can't* put them exactly where I want them due to trusses an lathe issues...

Did you use the ultra-slim type? (These things are approximately 1/2" thick!)...

Thanks for the reply,
Pete
Old 12-28-2013, 04:07 PM
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For the FIRST time since I've been on THT, I used the "Ignore" feature. Mark Y, congrats, you asshat! I'm sorry that Phil upset you.
Old 12-28-2013, 05:18 PM
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Pete, I'm trying to make some lighting decisions for my kitchen. Yesterday, I looked at various recessed and ended up more confused than when I started. The eBay ad didn't help with my confusion.

How are these connected? Romex or something dedicated to LED?

Are they AC or DC?

What's the "Driver" and "Interface" parts?

Can these or all LED recessed lighting be installed in an Insulated ceiling? Most of what I looked at said, not to be installed in insulation. I have a vaulted ceiling that doesn't have any space to spare. I'm at the point of using pendants, but I couldn't find anything I liked.

Any thoughts you or others might have would be appreciated.
Old 12-28-2013, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by davedowneast View Post
Pete, I'm trying to make some lighting decisions for my kitchen. Yesterday, I looked at various recessed and ended up more confused than when I started. The eBay ad didn't help with my confusion.

How are these connected? Romex or something dedicated to LED?

Are they AC or DC?

What's the "Driver" and "Interface" parts?

Can these or all LED recessed lighting be installed in an Insulated ceiling? Most of what I looked at said, not to be installed in insulation. I have a vaulted ceiling that doesn't have any space to spare. I'm at the point of using pendants, but I couldn't find anything I liked.

Any thoughts you or others might have would be appreciated.
Ha! I'm right there with you! In the old days, there were two to choose from. You'd either use New Construction boxes and mount them to the joist or you'd use Old Construction that popped in through the 6" hole -- either way I always used IC so they could come in contact with insulation. It was easy. The biggest choice was 4" or 6" and you were done. (for the most part...)

On the one that I posted. It appears that insulation is a non-issue since they never get all that hot (under 100f) (you'll want to look at specs)... They are DC which is what that "box" is for. The "interface" appears to just be a fancy way to call the plug. It appears that it's a transformer (the box/driver) the transformer goes to line voltage (I'll likely put it in a nice deep box for added protection) with the proper grommets for the output side (to the LED).

The ass-kicking part of these things is that they are LITERALLY as thick as the sheet rock! Heck, in my house because I have old style lathe with board and a skim coat... I have more ceiling thickness than these things are thick.

The part that is sort of "odd" is that the really bright ones... like the 21W ones (some places call them 25W?) (which are equal to a 100W bulb) are 8" round (or 8" square if you're into that sort of thing)... I sort of don't love the idea of an 8" round... since 6" is more of a "Standard" thing. So I can either go with 6 6" or with 4 8"... I'll likely try 4 8" (I plan to put a ceiling fan in the center of the room)... and go from there.

I may also buy a couple extra in case they turn out to be crap.

I'm thinking I'm going to buy a 4 pack. If they totally suck, I'll put them in the closet and go with conventional ones.

The only thing is, I think that these are NOT dimmers... which I sort of don't like. Then again, they're going in my kid's rooms...

Interesting stuff...
Old 12-28-2013, 06:05 PM
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http://www.ledwaves.com/pdf/pr15-instruction-manual.pdf

Hmmm... Insulation no touch... gotta think on this (build a box maybe that can cover it from behind?)...
Old 12-28-2013, 06:09 PM
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Hmmm... some kind of PVC or ABS pipe that goes above the insulation... Darn. The heat could be an issue after all... gotta keep reading.
Old 12-28-2013, 07:53 PM
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I have 3 of the 12w thin units sitting next to me on my desk. I bought them for the same reason as Pete - I want to put them in places where I have framing in the way. I bought mine through amazon but they look identical to what you posted. Quality seems good and light output seems very good. The driver is about 1" x 1 1/2" x 4". In order to install them "legally" you will need to be a little creative about using a box. Since the light pops in and out with spring clips, I would call the box accessible but I am not an electrician or an inspector.

I am not new to using LEDs. I have probably 110 - 120 of the HD ecosmart recessed can retrofit units installed and in service for as long as 3 years so far with no issues or failures. Output is equal or better than a 65w incandescent and they dim nicely with at least 3 units on a dimmer. Pricing has been all over the map but they are currently $35 and go to $25 from time to time. A trim ring can run $12 - $15 so since these replace the trims, the difference on a new install can be as little as $10.

The future of lighting is LED so we may as well get used to them. I will not use flourescent and incandescent bulbs will not be available much longer. The cost has and will come down.

For Dave I use and like these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-...575L/202240932

They are not as fancy as the ones with the built in pig tail but work great and are usually the cheapest way to go.

And if anyone is interested in accent or under cabinet lighting in LED, these have also been very good but not real cheap: http://www.homedepot.com/p/CabLED-6-...0-A1/203111551

The starter pack runs about $10 per foot but the extension strips are just over $5. Note the extension strips do not come with mount clips.

Mike.
Old 12-28-2013, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mpwitte View Post
I have 3 of the 12w thin units sitting next to me on my desk. I bought them for the same reason as Pete - I want to put them in places where I have framing in the way. I bought mine through amazon but they look identical to what you posted. Quality seems good and light output seems very good. The driver is about 1" x 1 1/2" x 4". In order to install them "legally" you will need to be a little creative about using a box. Since the light pops in and out with spring clips, I would call the box accessible but I am not an electrician or an inspector.

I am not new to using LEDs. I have probably 110 - 120 of the HD ecosmart recessed can retrofit units installed and in service for as long as 3 years so far with no issues or failures. Output is equal or better than a 65w incandescent and they dim nicely with at least 3 units on a dimmer. Pricing has been all over the map but they are currently $35 and go to $25 from time to time. A trim ring can run $12 - $15 so since these replace the trims, the difference on a new install can be as little as $10.

The future of lighting is LED so we may as well get used to them. I will not use flourescent and incandescent bulbs will not be available much longer. The cost has and will come down.

For Dave I use and like these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-...575L/202240932

They are not as fancy as the ones with the built in pig tail but work great and are usually the cheapest way to go.

And if anyone is interested in accent or under cabinet lighting in LED, these have also been very good but not real cheap: http://www.homedepot.com/p/CabLED-6-...0-A1/203111551

The starter pack runs about $10 per foot but the extension strips are just over $5. Note the extension strips do not come with mount clips.

Mike.
Hi Mike,

On those 12W... do you have the "Warm" or the "White"? Any chance you have an Amazon link?

I'm thinking of doing either the eBay ones or I found some on Alibaba... I dunno yet...
Old 12-28-2013, 10:55 PM
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I ordered what they call warm white. They are still just a touch cool for my taste but not bad. I prefer 2700 - 2800 for residential use. These are a bit more white than the recessed ones I linked to and have elsewhere in the house. Most of the LEDs I have seen seem to fudge their "warmness" a bit.


Amazon Amazon

Mike.
Old 12-29-2013, 06:12 AM
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Thanks Mike! Appreciate the information.
Old 12-29-2013, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mpwitte View Post
I ordered what they call warm white. They are still just a touch cool for my taste but not bad. I prefer 2700 - 2800 for residential use. These are a bit more white than the recessed ones I linked to and have elsewhere in the house. Most of the LEDs I have seen seem to fudge their "warmness" a bit.


http://www.amazon.com/Ceiling-Lighti...s=goodia+mb-03

Mike.
I have been watching this thread with some interest. Curious as if these that you link to
can these be used on a dimmer?
Old 12-29-2013, 07:44 AM
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The ones I've found can't be dimmed... or at least they say they can't be dimmed...
Old 12-29-2013, 07:58 AM
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I think you're nuts to permanently install anything into your house you bought off ebay.

I went through the same thing and all I can say is, you can avoid joists. Measure ten times, cut once. I used a laser level to project the joist lines and probably spent 2-3 hours per room marking off where I thought I was safe to install. I think in the end I only had one issue out of 4 rooms although there were some close calls.

On the flip side, if you call an electrician out - I've known a couple folks who have gotten cans installed for ~$75 a pop. I don't know how they manage to do that without constantly running into attic issues but apparently they do. Joists weren't really my biggest problem, it was conduit, A/C ductwork, etc. I imagine doing it every day you get pretty good about working through those issues.

In a more general sense - construction seems to be far behind the times when it comes to modernizing construction methods/building materials, but I don't think it's worth being on the cutting edge with the lack of standards out there. I ASSUME that 50 years from now, folks will be building in pink romex for 12v lighting circuits that are all LED, switches will all be wifi/RF, and of course a car battery could provide backup power for lighting for your whole home for hours.

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