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Commercial airline pilots - hiring standards...

Old 07-03-2013, 07:27 AM
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Question Commercial airline pilots - hiring standards...

For you pilots, do certain airlines have higher standarrds than others when it comes to hiring piolots? E.g. Does Air Tran require fewer hours and/or less experience than say Southwest, US Air etc.

I get the sense that this a very competative field so perhaps all airlines can command nothing but the best from the hiring pool? However, I also thought that maybe the "value" carriers do not pay as much in which case maybe the better talent goes elsewhere and the "value" carriers get the bottom of the barrel (no offense - just thinking out loud).
Old 07-03-2013, 07:35 AM
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First, they have to be able to spell pilot.
Old 07-03-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by atcfris View Post
First, they have to be able to spell pilot.
Dat must be why I got passed over! Fook!
Old 07-03-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Fish'nFool View Post
Dat must be why I got passed over! Fook!
Old 07-03-2013, 07:41 AM
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Thinking out loud as well but my thoughts are that the pilot is such a small part of the overall operation that the pay is probably pretty even across the board and long term benefits would be the advantage of some carriers over other.

I have been on some puddle jumpers out of my local airport operated by US Air and the pilot looked like he shouldn't have his drivers license yet.
Old 07-03-2013, 07:44 AM
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Some airlines hire lower time pilots but all pilots have to pass the same FAA checkride and meet the same standard of profficiency. Every 6mo captains goes for recurrent training and a proficiency check. The first office once a year. They also have to pass an FAA checkride to remain current.

At interview time they know you already know how to fly. They are interviewing you to find out of they want to sit 2 feet away from you for hours on end.

Each airline requests a minimum amount of time before considering you for employment. Each airline dictates what that time is. Some companies require just the FAA minimums. Some request a lot more.
Old 07-03-2013, 07:54 AM
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Higher standards, ...no. Just like any other industry though. The pool of available and qualified pilots is drying up in the near future. Retirements, FAR changes and growth will increase demand and push carriers to improve at least the entry level packages for new recruits. Of the larger passenger carriers, JetBlue has about the worst deal ( in total) for pilots. Of the freight carriers, both FedEx and Ups have pretty good contracts, but the majority of that kind of flying is back side of the clock. In the piloting profession, there are and will be increasing opportunities if you have the qualifications.

Some guys never get the break though, due to medical issues or violations.
Old 07-03-2013, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ThreeLittleFish View Post
.

Each airline requests a minimum amount of time before considering you for employment. Each airline dictates what that time is. Some companies require just the FAA minimums. Some request a lot more.
That's what I am after.

So which carrier(s) to include the regionals in your opinion have the better quality flight crews, captains in particular?
Old 07-03-2013, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Classic25 View Post
Higher standards, ...no. .
So your claiming the various carriers DO NOT have different and some cases higher standards than others? ;?
Old 07-03-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ThreeLittleFish View Post
Some airlines hire lower time pilots but all pilots have to pass the same FAA checkride and meet the same standard of profficiency. Every 6mo captains goes for recurrent training and a proficiency check. The first office once a year. They also have to pass an FAA checkride to remain current.

At interview time they know you already know how to fly. They are interviewing you to find out of they want to sit 2 feet away from you for hours on end.

Each airline requests a minimum amount of time before considering you for employment. Each airline dictates what that time is. Some companies require just the FAA minimums. Some request a lot more.
Partially correct, hiring is not a generic process. Some require a four year degree, some spit you out of the selection process for things that may seem inconsequential. Every carrier is different.

As for the proficiency checks, that is post employment, and can be longer intervals if the carrier is using an AQP program...

AirlineApps is a tool most entry level carriers use for selection. They build parameters, and if you fit what they're looking for, you may get a call. That said, if you've ever busted more than one check ride, that may cause your app to be rejected.. Not a cut and dried process.
Old 07-03-2013, 08:06 AM
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No only do the different carriers have standards they have company and union rules. Which are more complicated then the govt. rules promotions,routes,hours,pay scale etc.
Old 07-03-2013, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Fish'nFool View Post
So your claiming the various carriers DO NOT have different and some cases higher standards than others? ;?
There is no uniform standard. Some with the better contracts, work rules, and planned retirements can attract more and higher qualified pilots than a carrier that has por compensation packages, or no upgrade opportunities.
There are some that take what they can get. There are some paying $5k signing bonuses.. There are some that are a revolving door at the regional level..

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a.../regional.html


Have a look at who is hiring...
Old 07-03-2013, 08:14 AM
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Here's another question,,,, knowing what you know as pilots ie standards, are there carriers you try to avoid?
Old 07-03-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Fish'nFool View Post
Here's another question,,,, knowing what you know as pilots ie standards, are there carriers you try to avoid?
Jolly Fats Weehawken Airlines...
Old 07-03-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by louiefl View Post
Jolly Fats Weehawken Airlines...
What about Hooter's air or is the inflight entertainment worth the risk? ;?
Old 07-03-2013, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ThreeLittleFish View Post
Every 6mo captains goes for recurrent training and a proficiency check. The first office once a year.
Not across the board. It's fleet specific at my airline. On my fleet we all (Captains and First Officers) have recurrent training every six months. On my previous fleet (same airline) CA's and FO's train annually.

With regard to hiring minimums, past practice is pretty much out the window. With the new regulations set to take effect this August, all new hires must have a minimum of 1500 hours. In the recent past, many regional airlines had lowered requirements to basic commercial pilot certification minimums, simply to fill empty seats. I was blown away a few weeks ago when we gave a jumpseat ride to a young regional first officer who told us he'd been hired with 400 hours total time and only 14 hours multi-engine, of which only one hour of multi-engine time was Pilot In Command (PIC). I still can't wrap my head around that, as my first 121 airline required 1500 total time and 500 multi PIC just to get the interview in the mid-nineties. This FO told us he would be getting a leave of absence at the end of July so he could build his time above the 1500 hours that will be required of all Part 121 pilots this coming August (he's at about 1400TT hours right now). Apparently, no one will be grandfathered.

To answer your question, yes, some airlines have had more stringent hiring "standards" in the past. At one point, Southwest would not grant an interview unless you already had a 737 type rating. Today, they will interview without the 737 type rating but you must agree to get type rated in the 737 prior to your first day of employment. Southwest purchased Airtran, but yes, in the past, it was easier to get an interview with Airtran than Southwest, simply because Southwest was a more stable company with better compensation and benefits.

Typically, the more stable the airline and the better compensated the pilot group, the more difficult it is to get an interview. Also, an airline might publish hiring minimums (eg 3000 total time and 1000 multi PIC) but in actual practice, most applicants granted an interview will have much higher times, simply because the position is very competitive.

Hope this helps.

Tipsy
Old 07-03-2013, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TipsyMcStagger View Post
Not across the board. It's fleet specific at my airline. On my fleet we all (Captains and First Officers) have recurrent training every six months. On my previous fleet (same airline) CA's and FO's train annually.

With regard to hiring minimums, past practice is pretty much out the window. With the new regulations set to take effect this August, all new hires must have a minimum of 1500 hours. In the recent past, many regional airlines had lowered requirements to basic commercial pilot certification minimums, simply to fill empty seats. I was blown away a few weeks ago when we gave a jumpseat ride to a young regional first officer who told us he'd been hired with 400 hours total time and only 14 hours multi-engine, of which only one hour of multi-engine time was Pilot In Command (PIC). I still can't wrap my head around that, as my first 121 airline required 1500 total time and 500 multi PIC just to get the interview in the mid-nineties. This FO told us he would be getting a leave of absence at the end of July so he could build his time above the 1500 hours that will be required of all Part 121 pilots this coming August (he's at about 1400TT hours right now). Apparently, no one will be grandfathered.

To answer your question, yes, some airlines have had more stringent hiring "standards" in the past. At one point, Southwest would not grant an interview unless you already had a 737 type rating. Today, they will interview without the 737 type rating but you must agree to get type rated in the 737 prior to your first day of employment. Southwest purchased Airtran, but yes, in the past, it was easier to get an interview with Airtran than Southwest, simply because Southwest was a more stable company with better compensation and benefits.

Typically, the more stable the airline and the better compensated the pilot group, the more difficult it is to get an interview. Also, an airline might publish hiring minimums (eg 3000 total time and 1000 multi PIC) but in actual practice, most applicants granted an interview will have much higher times, simply because the position is very competitive.

Hope this helps.

Tipsy
Whicj regional carrier did ya say that was again?

Glad to hear it about SW, it's all I fly and dare I say for some reason I feel safer flying SW than say some of the other carriers. I am also glad to hear about the across the board new min requirements.

What carriers do you go out of your way to avoid flying on?
Old 07-03-2013, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Fish'nFool View Post
What carriers do you go out of your way to avoid flying on?
Southwest. It's a cattle car.

Tipsy
Old 07-03-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TipsyMcStagger View Post
Southwest. It's a cattle car.

Tipsy
They stopped using the elec prods 2 yrs ago! ;?
Old 07-03-2013, 01:31 PM
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Judging from my buddy, I thought the job requirements were based on how many flight attendants you have banged and how drunk you could get and still pass a sobriety checkpoint for the flight the next morning.

Southwest. I love walking by a southwest gate as they are all gathering around their boarding location before they get on board. Southwest and Air France are on my no fly list. Heading to Europe next month, told the wife book Lufthansa whatever it cost.

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