Notices

Dark matter...

Old 04-16-2013, 04:20 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
fidhhook54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 21,113
Default Dark matter...

http://www.newser.com/story/76463/da...p-in-mine.html
fidhhook54 is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 04:26 AM
  #2  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,290
Default

A darker matter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uQBS...ature=youtu.be
Ben Had is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 06:33 AM
  #3  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Posts: 12,236
Default

Not that rare..................I left some dark matter in the toilet this morning!
Jus Teasin is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 06:42 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
fidhhook54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 21,113
Default

Dark matter is running America.
fidhhook54 is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:53 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,223
Default

They say dark matter makes up most of the universe yet they can,t locate any?
08087 is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:18 AM
  #6  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Right here..SENC
Posts: 1,199
Default

Not that rare..................I left some dark matter in the toilet this morning!


Dark matter is running America.




obviously... these 2 observations are related
Rustybee is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:25 AM
  #7  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 11,398
Default

So I been reading about dark matter and dark energy for a few years. Forgive me for being skeptical but they came up with this theory to make their math for the rate of expansion of the universe work????

So if your math doesn't work, you just invent something that represents the number you need and plug it into your equations? uhhhhhh, Ok.
Back-in-Black is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:31 AM
  #8  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Fish'nFool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Anywhere but here...
Posts: 25,007
Default

Originally Posted by fidhhook54 View Post
Dark matter is running America.
Ain't dat da troof!
Fish'nFool is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:41 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Florida
Posts: 4,589
Default

Dark matter is ruining America
airedog is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 09:07 AM
  #10  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hammond, LA
Posts: 17,421
Default

Originally Posted by Back-in-Black View Post
So I been reading about dark matter and dark energy for a few years. Forgive me for being skeptical but they came up with this theory to make their math for the rate of expansion of the universe work????

So if your math doesn't work, you just invent something that represents the number you need and plug it into your equations? uhhhhhh, Ok.
that's one way of looking at it

the reason the math doesn't work is that the universe is both expanding AND accelerating...that should not be the case base on our current understanding of matter, energy and the laws of nature. the existence of an un-observable "dark matter" has been posited as a way to explain this phenomena; ie: "make the math work"

its not that they are backing into a pre-determined outcome, its that the outcome we can observe doesn't make any sense
cgrand is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:06 AM
  #11  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 11,398
Default

Originally Posted by cgrand View Post
that's one way of looking at it

the reason the math doesn't work is that the universe is both expanding AND accelerating...that should not be the case base on our current understanding of matter, energy and the laws of nature. the existence of an un-observable "dark matter" has been posited as a way to explain this phenomena; ie: "make the math work"

its not that they are backing into a pre-determined outcome, its that the outcome we can observe doesn't make any sense

Yes, I understand all that - just have a problem with the "science".

A. You know from observation what the "answer" needs to be.

B. You come up with a mathmatical equation to explain the observations in "A".

C. Your equation doesn't work. So you invent invisible matter and energy to "plug" into your equation so that is does work.

D. Then you go off on a wild goose chase trying to prove that the invisible matter you invented to plug into your eqaution exists.

Seems oddly reminiscent of the "science" behind global warming theory.
Back-in-Black is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:12 AM
  #12  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: CT
Posts: 18,363
Default

This is a transcript but the conversation is tapped and podcast available on the same web-site

http://www.onbeing.org/program/our-o...1#main_content
LI Sound Grunt is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:13 AM
  #13  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hammond, LA
Posts: 17,421
Default

Originally Posted by Back-in-Black View Post
Yes, I understand all that - just have a problem with the "science".

A. You know from observation what the "answer" needs to be.

B. You come up with a mathmatical equation to explain the observations in "A".

C. Your equation doesn't work. So you invent invisible matter and energy to "plug" into your equation so that is does work.
this may be semantics, but...

A. we can observe that the universe is expanding and accelerating...it is what it is

B. we don't have the math to explain "A"...in fact, the math we have does not allow for "A"

C. "dark matter" is a placeholder in the equation until we can figure it out

there are no pre-determined conclusions about what that place holder is, or what it's nature and relationship to the known universe is...it is an unknown and will stay that way until we figure it out, whatever "it" is

in the meantime, it makes the math work (the same math that has been proven correct in every other facet of the observable universe)

nome sane?
cgrand is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:17 AM
  #14  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: CT
Posts: 18,363
Default

Originally Posted by cgrand View Post
this may be semantics, but...

A. we can observe that the universe is expanding and accelerating...it is what it is

B. we don't have the math to explain "A"...in fact, the math we have does not allow for "A"

C. "dark matter" is a placeholder in the equation until we can figure it out

there are no pre-determined conclusions about what that place holder is, or what it's nature and relationship to the known universe is...it is an unknown and will stay that way until we figure it out, whatever "it" is

in the meantime, it makes the math work (the same math that has been proven correct in every other facet of the observable universe)

nome sane?
No it is not just semantics. That is an excellent explanation. (except for the comma in its).
LI Sound Grunt is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:18 AM
  #15  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 11,398
Default

Originally Posted by cgrand View Post
this may be semantics, but...

A. we can observe that the universe is expanding and accelerating...it is what it is

B. we don't have the math to explain "A"...in fact, the math we have does not allow for "A"

C. "dark matter" is a placeholder in the equation until we can figure it out

there are no pre-determined conclusions about what that place holder is, or what it's nature and relationship to the known universe is...it is an unknown and will stay that way until we figure it out, whatever "it" is

in the meantime, it makes the math work (the same math that has been proven correct in every other facet of the observable universe)

nome sane?
errrrrr. no. They are spending millions in multiple attempts to "find" dark matter.

They have defined the "properties" of dark matter and that is what they are searching for.

Is anyone even questioning the math rather than trying to explain the discrepancy with "The Force"? I am your father, Luke.
Back-in-Black is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:22 AM
  #16  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hammond, LA
Posts: 17,421
Default

plenty of smart people are questioning the math
which of newtons laws do you feel is in error?
cgrand is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:26 AM
  #17  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 11,398
Default

Does it have to be Newton? Einstein predicted that those rules wouldn't apply at or near the speed of light and his predictions were PROVED by observation. Why do Newton's laws have to apply on a universal scale? In a universe that we know so little about?
Back-in-Black is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:27 AM
  #18  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30
Default

This is how science works. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you stop looking for an answer. Scientists theorized that some elements in the periodic table existed before we had isloated them. They had even gone as far as guessing (incredibly accurately) What their atomic weights would be. Low and behold as time when on these elements were isloated and discovered. In science, you look for solutions to unknowns.
supergrilldds is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:30 AM
  #19  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hammond, LA
Posts: 17,421
Default

that is correct
the question is...why do they not apply?

if what we currently believe is true (the big bang), then the expansion of the universe should be slowing down. it's not...it's speeding up

why?

this is just part of the process of discovery
i don't understand why investing in finding the answers is bothering you
cgrand is offline  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:35 AM
  #20  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 30
Default

^^^
Good question
supergrilldds is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread