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Hull-up restoration or build a new one? Long read...

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View Poll Results: Hull-up restoration or build a new boat?
Restore and keep it!
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63.64%
Build a new one!
3
27.27%
Neither...you're crazy for even owning a boat!
1
9.09%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

Hull-up restoration or build a new one? Long read...

Old 01-25-2013, 04:10 PM
  #1  
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Default Hull-up restoration or build a new one? Long read...

Lots of folks here have done hull-up restorations on older boats, and a few have built boats themselves. I'd like to hear from both.
My current situation is I have a boat I like...it's in my sig line. It's on the market right now, and I have had a few inquiries but no serious buyer has stepped up yet. Debt from a recent marriage and divorce has put a serious damper on my boating and fishing fund...while I can make the payments-insurance, taxes, boat loan, and dockage-there's not much left over. My original plan was to sell it, pay off some debt, and dive into an Enviboats build.
The Black Watch has been on the market since last March...and I am disappointed in what little interest has been shown. It's a great boat at a very good price...but not many know of the brand, and it seems everyone is interested in outboard boats for the most part. It suits a niche market, and frankly, that market has been dead and the prospects for it's improvement seem dim. So, it's got me to thinking....
Now I am considering keeping the Black Watch and transporting it up to my home in the upstate of SC. I have a driveway poured in the back yard and plenty of room to keep her there. While my HOA won't be happy about it, there's nothing they can do since I can keep her there and not violate any covenants. With the boat here and not wet-slipped 4 hours away, I can spend as much time as possible on her refit. I would save a minimum of $300.00 a month on insurance and slip rental, and this would go into the boat budget. Since I will do all the work myself, I feel this would take care of most of the cost-barring major engine work, which isn't necessary based on the fact both are sound and run fine. From a financial standpoint, I think it would serve me better to restore and not build.
I'd appreciate feedback from those "in the know" on both...and why you feel the way you do.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:22 PM
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Being that I have both bought new and restored and restored a couple myself, you have to ask the serious questions:

What is your budget

What is your expectations : offshore, inshore, cruising fishing, etc.

Commitment: unless the restore can be had for a value plan on keeping at least 5-7 years to recoup

I am in the same boat, finishing up an old Lappy Hewes and have not decided on a 28 Bertram or a 33 Bertram .

My criteria is resonable draft less than 3'

cruise 24-26kts

diesel

sleeps four (2 adults 2 kids)

A/C

Genny
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:47 PM
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Mardi-Gras,
My budget is flexible, but limited...since I plan on doing the grunt-work myself, it can be done pretty much on the cheap. There's no major fiberglass work(aside from re-coring the cockpit deck)needed and most of the refit will consist of a total re-wiring job, a cabin update, replacing the fuel tank, adding a freshwater holding tank and plumbing system, adding an A/C(for shore power only-no genny),installing all new dash/tower station panel gauges, stripping the bottom paint and putting a new barrier boat with fresh anti-fouling, and cleaning/painting the entire bilge. There would be a couple of things I cannot do, like new enclosure curtains and powder-coating the tower.
The boat I would build would be a 29' outboard express used to fish offshore. I know I can refit the BW for much less monetarily and labor-wise.
I would keep the BW for a long time...probably until I get sick of fishing offshore(not likely)or cannot due to old age. Recouping investment would not really be a consideration in why I would choose to restore.
The more I think about it, the better the refit scenario looks.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:53 PM
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I know the feeling every candidate I look at I know that I am going to have a yard bill of X, and I look at the ones that conversion updates have been done but do not know who did work, need a specialty surveyor for that.

If I did it my self at least I know its "right" and the way I want it.

One scenario was a boat was 30K, yard bill with remanned engines refit and misc approx 30-40K...

However I can go buy one thats done for the same monies...but will not be exactly the way I want to have it layed out...

Only if I could find a FBC that drafts 3' or less cruises lower 30's, diesel, genny and sleeps four + I would be all over it...
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:58 PM
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I rehabbed my 29 Blackfin, it got quite expensive with putting in the 370 cummins and all, I put about 80k into it??

I will say this, when the boat was in my back yard, if I went out to do 5 projects, I would accomplish 8 projects

When I would work on it at the dock (20 min ride), go down to do 5 projects, 2 would get done

Always forgot something

The 38 (for now) can't come home, so I actually have a ton of tools sitting on her, to not forget them I have put about 70k into her since July

They have a saying "BOAT" "break out another thousand"

My saying while re-doing things is "BOATT" "break out another three thousand"

I don't think I would have it any other way, right now I am in the process of re-doing my whole cabin in curly cherry, but the boat will be the way I want it
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:07 PM
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Mardi,
I wouldn't need any engine overhaul, as far as I know...I will pull them and send them out to be checked and I will paint them before re-installing.
Other than the haul-out for the transportation, there won't be any yard fees. At $35.00/day for in-service jobs at the yard I use, that could add up quickly...more than $1000 a month.
I have gone out for quotes on transportation but haven't heard back...I think it could be done for approximately $1000, but that's just an educated guess.
Also, doing the job myself would rest my anxieties about whether it was done right or not and to my specifications.
If my boat slept four, we could perhaps have a conversation...but two is the max it'll sleep comfortably.
Thanks for the insight...this is exactly what I am looking for.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:01 PM
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Sounds like you need to get busy with the resto. Seems the boat suits you and only needs some freshing up
Its not a total gut and rebuild. We gutted and redid figure double your estimate
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:06 AM
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It sure is a tough call.

Of course, time is short but if you have the time, know how and money to rebuild, and it seems like this is what you want to do based on the plan you have already come up with along with the numbers you have run on what you will save in x, y, and z, you seem like you very much want to rebuild and restore this boat that you know and really like, if not love. On second read of all your posts in this thread, you have already put in a LOT of though into what you will/need/want to do and what it will take to do. If you have the time, and of course, like many/you know, it will realistically take probably double the time you already know you will need to get it all done. Do you have that kind of time?

On the other hand, if you just bought a new boat, you can be out boating, pay and be done with it and enjoy NOT having to work on a boat. Some/many like/love the challenge. You might enjoy NOT having to spend the time doing this, that and the other thing and laying out more and more money all the time, all the while the clock ticks, tick, tick, tick, tick . . . .




I'd rather get a new boat that I don't have to worry about other than maintaining. Turn the key and go for years and years to come.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:27 AM
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What are you thinking it'll cost to do each ($ and time):

1) re-coring the cockpit deck
2) total re-wiring job
3) cabin update
4) replacing the fuel tank
5) adding a freshwater holding tank and plumbing system
6) adding an A/C (for shore power only-no genny)
7) installing all new dash/tower station panel gauges
8) stripping the bottom paint
9) putting a new barrier boat with fresh anti-fouling
10) cleaning/painting the entire bilge.
11) new enclosure curtains
12) powder-coating the tower

Would it be worth it to you if you calculate it being 6 months of labor and $20k of expenses?
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:56 AM
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Here are my dollar amounts for materials and time allotments. I have access to some "good buddy" discounts on many items, especially everything I need for the re-wiring job. I am thinking it'll take a year or so for me to finish up. I am sure there will be other things I come across while working I'll want to take care of, so that figure is flexible. Realistically, I am looking at a 2-year project, give or take a couple-three months. A build will take probably half again as much, and the costs will be much, much more.
Again, the refit is looking more and more feasible. It'll cost me $805.00 to transport the boat up, so that figure is revised down slightly from my original guesstimate. I know there will be additional items and expenses, but I think I can cover those.



Originally Posted by firetigertim View Post
What are you thinking it'll cost to do each ($ and time):

1) re-coring the cockpit deck $500.00 40 hours
2) total re-wiring job $250.00 40 hours
3) cabin update $1000.00 120 hours
4) replacing the fuel tank $2500.00 40 hours
5) adding a freshwater holding tank and plumbing system $300.00 20 hrs.
6) adding an A/C (for shore power only-no genny) $1200.00 40 hours
7) installing all new dash/tower station panel gauges $300.00 20 hours
8) stripping the bottom paint $250.00 20 hours
9) putting a new barrier boat with fresh anti-fouling $500.00 20 hours
10) cleaning/painting the entire bilge. $350.00 40 hours
11) new enclosure curtains $3000.00
12) powder-coating the tower ??

Would it be worth it to you if you calculate it being 6 months of labor and $20k of expenses?
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolakrab View Post
Here are my dollar amounts for materials and time allotments. I have access to some "good buddy" discounts on many items, especially everything I need for the re-wiring job. I am thinking it'll take a year or so for me to finish up. I am sure there will be other things I come across while working I'll want to take care of, so that figure is flexible. Realistically, I am looking at a 2-year project, give or take a couple-three months. A build will take probably half again as much, and the costs will be much, much more.
Again, the refit is looking more and more feasible. It'll cost me $805.00 to transport the boat up, so that figure is revised down slightly from my original guesstimate. I know there will be additional items and expenses, but I think I can cover those.
Very impressive! That's right at $10k not including powder coating the tower and 400 hours of work. I'd say go for it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:52 PM
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Re-wiring a boat will be more than $250, just for the wire alone.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:10 PM
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I think the DIY ac will be closer to 2k. Stripping the bottom will take longer than 20 hours. The rest seems pretty close.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ReelNauti View Post
Re-wiring a boat will be more than $250, just for the wire alone.
Not if you have the right connections!! I can get all the connectors, cable ties, and miscellaneous supplies free of charge, and the wire at wholesale or perhaps gratis, depending on the sizes and runs.

Originally Posted by hottoddie View Post
I think the DIY ac will be closer to 2k. Stripping the bottom will take longer than 20 hours. The rest seems pretty close.
If I were to buy a new AC, definitely. I will look around for a used unit in good shape. You could be correct about the strip job...I have never done one and there are a few year's worth of paint to remove.

Thanks for all the feedback, folks! This is what I am looking for.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:55 AM
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Re coring the deck, nidacore/Core-Cell/ etc, alone is 10.00-14.00 sq. ft

I went with NidaCore on my hewes 4'x7' panels, needed two, all materials (glass/resin/etc) about 500.00 and 8-15 hours tops..
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:52 PM
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My simple "replace the floor only" turned into a full on restore. Once you open one thing up plan on opening the whole can of worms. My $3k "tops" and 2 week job turned into $10k job and 8 month project. What ever you "think" your going to have into it......double or even triple it. Same thing goes for time. If you think its going take 2 weeks...plan on 4 to 6 weeks. And don't think "oh that wont happen to me" because that's the same thing I said. If it were me and I were to do it over..... I would have just got a new hull or a boat even. Don't get me wrong......she will be nice when she's finished... but it has taken 2 years from my life prob from the loss of sleep and stress of getting it finished. Either way I wish you the best of luck. You will need it! Hope my post wasn't too discouraging. Oh and I'm a VERY VERY hands on kind of guy. I love to tackle projects
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jebsurf View Post
My $3k "tops" and 2 week job turned into $10k job and 8 month project. What ever you "think" your going to have into it......double or even triple it.
amen brother...

originally I was going to paint and redo floor on the Hewes ~ $1,500.00 now its a full blown restore, stringers, floors, hatches, hardware, plumbing, electrical and the yard bill has balloned to ~ $7,000.00, but it will be done right and they way I want it....
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mardi-Gras View Post
amen brother...

originally I was going to paint and redo floor on the Hewes ~ $1,500.00 now its a full blown restore, stringers, floors, hatches, hardware, plumbing, electrical and the yard bill has balloned to ~ $7,000.00, but it will be done right and they way I want it....
Exactly. I didn't listen to anyone that said "your getting ready to fuck up is what you are getting ready to do". I didn't know what they were talking about and told them they were crazy . But I feel exactly what you said. When she is finished she will be the best sled out there because she was built to my specs and needs(and I LOVE to over build things and make sure its 100% right). But that finishing day when I splash her cant come quick enough.I started in the fall and with my org plans I was to be chasing rockfish and BFT right now. But yeah.....I will be lucky at this point if she will be done for summer. Honestly.....it makes me sick even thinking about it! BTW my mako is a 1979 too.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:44 AM
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My decision is to bring her up to my home and do the re-fit here. I know that some of my budgets may get blown out of the water(pun intended)...but that's what B-O-A-T stands for....
I'll be on here asking questions and looking for advice...thanks for the input, everyone!!
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