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'splain me this

Old 12-12-2012, 03:54 PM
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One of the arguments we hear against allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire on incomes above $250,000 is that it will be bad for job creating small businesses. OK, here's my question. A guy has a great job for a big corp. His salary is $250,000 per year. Another guy owns a prosperous small business. He draws a salary of $250,000 per year. Thus their taxable income for the year is the same. Why should they be taxed differently? (We're talking about personal income taxes here, not business taxes, right?)
Second, if the Bush tax cuts were for the "job creators", why were millions of jobs lost during his administration? Why was there a severe recession, and financial crisis and a record run up of the federal budget deficit?
Old 12-12-2012, 04:18 PM
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1) Millions of jobs weren't lost during his administration, and gas was $1.83/gallon on his last day in office.
2) The financial crisis started years before, and it was only a matter of time before the housing bubble burst. In the previous mini recession, housing prices never dipped, and were overvalued. This started back during the Clinton era, when things were booming.
3) The small business owner creates more jobs than anyone else, but the tax breaks benefit both the owner of a small landscaping company and the corporate guy. Even though the corporate guy isn't creating jobs, he is paying someone to do his landscaping, which benefits teh landscaper, who gets more business and hires more workers.
Old 12-12-2012, 04:27 PM
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I made it in before the bilge.

Pluggie, why not ask the more relevant question. Why the class warfare? Taxing the 250k+ earners is NOT going to solve our fiscal problems nor even make a dent in them. The entire debate is meant to divide us as a nation while keeping us focused on something other than the real issues. That and the "blame Bush" lunacy is a diversion from the real issues that you seem to have bought on to. So why not focus on the real problems as opposed to buying into political bullshit?
Old 12-12-2012, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by KJS View Post
I made it in before the bilge.

Pluggie, why not ask the more relevant question. Why the class warfare? Taxing the 250k+ earners is NOT going to solve our fiscal problems nor even make a dent in them. The entire debate is meant to divide us as a nation while keeping us focused on something other than the real issues. That and the "blame Bush" lunacy is a diversion from the real issues that you seem to have bought on to. So why not focus on the real problems as opposed to buying into political bullshit?
Shirley you don't expect an answer to that.
Old 12-12-2012, 04:36 PM
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You'll easily tell who makes more than 250$k a year.

I for one am tired of the fat man busy dancing while the poor man pays the band.

The big corps, banks etc are the ones to blame for the recession. Make them pay back the bailout instead of the million dollar bonuses.
Old 12-12-2012, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by plugmeister View Post
One of the arguments we hear against allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire on incomes above $250,000 is that it will be bad for job creating small businesses. OK, here's my question. A guy has a great job for a big corp. His salary is $250,000 per year. Another guy owns a prosperous small business. He draws a salary of $250,000 per year. Thus their taxable income for the year is the same. Why should they be taxed differently? (We're talking about personal income taxes here, not business taxes, right?)
Second, if the Bush tax cuts were for the "job creators", why were millions of jobs lost during his administration? Why was there a severe recession, and financial crisis and a record run up of the federal budget deficit?
As I posted in your other myopicmoronic thread:

It's a shame you're a teacher.



Big Al
Old 12-12-2012, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Marlin009 View Post
Shirley you don't expect an answer to that.
I do, and don't call my Shirly

....you know I had to say it!
Old 12-12-2012, 05:05 PM
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why not work on waste and fraud? i am sure there is more money in those two that increasing the taxes
Old 12-12-2012, 05:08 PM
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Many small businesses file taxes under their individual taxes. So when you raise taxes the corner mom and pop stores they are gong to have to let someone go and work even harder. It just doesn't make sense.

The problem with our tax code, including the Bush era, is that it is too progressive. The majority of Americans have no skin in the game because they pay zero, nada, nothing in personal income taxes yet they vote to stick it too the wealthy. A flatter tax is the solution IMO.

The truth is that when JFK and Reagan both cut taxes the revenue coming into the government increased because the base was broadened. Every American did better.

There is plenty of blame to go around for the mess we are in. Both political parties have failed us. But don't blame the big business and banks etc because corporate America can't sh!t without the heavy handed federal governments permission. The blame falls solely at the feet of the politicians not private business.That's exactly what appended with our housing collapse. Everyone blamed the banks but they were following the governments mandates on how they were to operate.
Old 12-12-2012, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by plugmeister View Post
One of the arguments we hear against allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire on incomes above $250,000 is that it will be bad for job creating small businesses. OK, here's my question. A guy has a great job for a big corp. His salary is $250,000 per year. Another guy owns a prosperous small business. He draws a salary of $250,000 per year. Thus their taxable income for the year is the same. Why should they be taxed differently? (We're talking about personal income taxes here, not business taxes, right?)
Second, if the Bush tax cuts were for the "job creators", why were millions of jobs lost during his administration? Why was there a severe recession, and financial crisis and a record run up of the federal budget deficit?
As stated, a corporate guy making $250K isn't the same as a contractor with 8 employees who works along side them 60-70 hours a week....but the contractor operates his finances like an individual and gets taxed to death. Is he going to hire more people and work harder when the government is just going to take even larger percentages???

If millions of jobs were lost, we can blame the recession that started by bad decision much earlier (and that Bush didn't necessarily correct either)

The recession started under Bush, Obama has made it worse and paying for OBAMA record spending will take decades.

Do you realize you cannot tax the 1% enough to matter.......exterminate ALL of them and confiscate everything they ownand it doesn't cover the excess spending Obama has done. We can't even complain about Obama's budget proposals cause he doesn't provide them. in 200 years this country has not produced an annual budget for only 4 years......the last 4. Spending money like that is like you managing your checkbook by depositing your checks, and writing checks, without ever adding/subtracting to see what you have til after the fact.

Bush had $2.3T in incoming $$$ and spent $2.6T. Obama had $2.8T incoming and spent $3.7T (who overspent and how is THAT Bushes fault)



I didn't even touch on the root of our problems. People tend to be familiar with people in their same financial position. Regardless of what "class" people belong to, everyone is convinced the other group/classes, which they know little about, are not paying "their fair share".
You can't argue with the numbers that show how large a percentage the "rich" pay in total income tax collections. You also have to be appauled that roughly 47% pay nothing and even get money back from the system.


BTW: if you doubled my income I would not be at $250K
Old 12-12-2012, 05:10 PM
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.....and,

A part of me wants us to go over the "cliff". At least the rest of the population will be paying into the system too. (but none of us will have jobs or money left)
Old 12-12-2012, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by yknot fishing View Post
why not work on waste and fraud? i am sure there is more money in those two that increasing the taxes
Because working on waste and fraud doesn't help either party when they are the purveyers of waste and fraud. Trying to get small minded people to buy on to class warfare is much easier. Every time I see Pluggy post it really reminds me of why we have the problems in our education system that we do.
Old 12-12-2012, 05:17 PM
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How many Americans voted for the $250,000 Limit?

The number our elected president determined was excessive wealth.
Old 12-12-2012, 05:18 PM
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Some people are just too inpatient. The proposed increase in taxes on the "rich" will net enough extra income to the goverment to wipe the entire debt out in just 541 years. ( if they stop the spending increases.
Old 12-12-2012, 05:27 PM
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Plugmeister, I have 8 employees. If you're too stupid to know what an S corp is then I hope you work for someone that does.
Old 12-12-2012, 05:32 PM
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Latest news is that 2/3 of the "increased revenue" from the increased tax rate will go to new spending, not debt reduction. Why in the heck any new spending is proposed is a mystery, and is strong proof of the class warfare basis for changes in tax rates. Total crock.
Old 12-12-2012, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by KJS View Post
Because working on waste and fraud doesn't help either party when they are the purveyers of waste and fraud. Trying to get small minded people to buy on to class warfare is much easier. Every time I see Pluggy post it really reminds me of why we have the problems in our education system that we do.
The liberal agenda is drilled even deeper into their vulnerable, malleable little minds once they reach the land of the UNIVERSITY.

95% of college Professors have never left the plush confines of academia and truly put in an honest hard day's work only to see 1/3 of it taken on payday and given to the urban scum I see daily entering our Emergency Rooms with MEDICAID cards. Typically toting an Obama-phone primarily used to sell their food stamps for crack or heroin.

I could go on and on about the abuse I see on healthcare's frontline, your local hometown ER, but it's all been said before.

I give up. The country chose their guy.

Lets go over the cliff. (as if we have not already F%$Ked this country up enough?)

I digress. I apologize.
Old 12-12-2012, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Night Crawler View Post
You'll easily tell who makes more than 250$k a year.

I for one am tired of the fat man busy dancing while the poor man pays the band.

The big corps, banks etc are the ones to blame for the recession. Make them pay back the bailout instead of the million dollar bonuses.
IBTL:

That sounds like a great idea! Let's blame big corporations. Let's make them pay more, and then when they lay people off, we can get angry at them for cost cutting!

I'm tired of the fat man dancing, so at 42 years old I'm pursuing my PhD at my own expense and working towards a higher paying job.

Or maybe I should just hate whomever makes more than me and make them pay "their fair share". It's easier to bring other down than it is to raise myself up. That requires hard work and ambition.

GM took the bailout, but Ford didn't. If you aren't a fan of the bailout, why not just buy a Ford instead of a Chevy. ;?
Old 12-12-2012, 05:37 PM
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I didn't think any was ever going toward "debt" but was going toward "deficit" (unfunded spending each year) not the 16 trill. owed.
Old 12-12-2012, 05:40 PM
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I know I used to have a memory but I forget what I did with it.

Pluggy, your signature is spot-on.

I want to know who Obama is now going to blame. Inheriting this mess as an excuse is off the table. He inherited his own mess at this point.

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