Go Back  The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > Dockside Chat
Reload this Page >

Rim Joist:Open Cell or Closed Cell foam spray?

Notices

Rim Joist:Open Cell or Closed Cell foam spray?

Old 09-01-2012, 03:55 AM
  #1  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default Rim Joist:Open Cell or Closed Cell foam spray?

I got two quotes yesterday. New home construction

$770 for closed cell, R21-3" (of course this guy says closed cell is the only way to go)

$1050 for open cell, R 40 -12" (of course this guy says open cell is the only way to go)

Besides the gain in R value, any opinions on the OPEN vs. CLOSED cell foam debate? I hate spending an extra $300 if I don't have to.

Looked at some DIY kits, same price but I do the work. That's not happening.
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:07 AM
  #2  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: RI
Posts: 6,356
Default

They should be quoting = r value. Closed cell stops all air infiltration and has better insulating qualities. No need for r40 for rim joists. R20 is plenty with closed cell.

Are you having the entire house foamed?
BACKTOTHESEA is online now  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:08 AM
  #3  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: RI
Posts: 6,356
Default

Just realized different quotes. Go closed cell.
BACKTOTHESEA is online now  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:12 AM
  #4  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

Originally Posted by BACKTOTHESEA View Post
They should be quoting = r value. Closed cell stops all air infiltration and has better insulating qualities. No need for r40 for rim joists. R20 is plenty with closed cell.

Are you having the entire house foamed?
The open cell guy at R-40 told me that he needed to put that much in my rim joists because he needed to cover the top plate and the joint between the top plate and the concrete wall. Made sense to me. Top plate is 2x8. Therefor he ends up with 10-12" of foam.

I'm not doing any foaming except for the rim joists. Its code here.

Since I live in a severe wind location, would that mean closed cell would be better?
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:19 AM
  #5  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: RI
Posts: 6,356
Default

A air barrier should have been used between the plate and the wall. Unless you are going for 5 star energy rating and foaming the entire home with air exchanger, no need to foam the plate IMO.

I would still go closed cell.

Do you need intumescent spray or are ou sheet rocking after?
BACKTOTHESEA is online now  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:25 AM
  #6  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

Originally Posted by BACKTOTHESEA View Post
A air barrier should have been used between the plate and the wall. Unless you are going for 5 star energy rating and foaming the entire home with air exchanger, no need to foam the plate IMO.

I would still go closed cell.

Do you need intumescent spray or are ou sheet rocking after?
I got two "opinions" on the intumescent spray. Apparently there is a discrepancy over whether this is required in the rim joists. The closed cell guy tells me his spray is intumescent anyway.

This came up because my foundation is sheetrocked anyway, up to the top plate. ICF foundation, so the firecode discussion came up more than once.

Code Enforcement doesn't seem to have an opinion


EDIT: I used sill seal at the top plate joint, but that stuff is crap.
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:34 AM
  #7  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: RI
Posts: 6,356
Default

Seems silly to allow regular insulation in the home but require foam in the rim joist. You would think batt would be adequate.

I needed intumescent spray In my attic due to the mechanicals up there. And no Sheetrock.

Have you considered foam in the entire home or too cost prohibitive?
BACKTOTHESEA is online now  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:35 AM
  #8  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 34
Default

From an electricians point of view, once closed cell is used, it is virtually impossible to add any wiring in the future. If open cell is used, we still have a fighting chance. Especially when it involves snaking wire from the basement up.
Jaw1215 is offline  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:36 AM
  #9  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

Originally Posted by BACKTOTHESEA View Post
Seems silly to allow regular insulation in the home but require foam in the rim joist. You would think batt would be adequate.

I needed intumescent spray In my attic due to the mechanicals up there. And no Sheetrock.

Have you considered foam in the entire home or too cost prohibitive?
Entire house foamed would have been great, but the house is finished and I'm already living in it. This is the final straw for my C.O.

Thanks for your help. I appreciate it.
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:37 AM
  #10  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

Originally Posted by Jaw1215 View Post
From an electricians point of view, once closed cell is used, it is virtually impossible to add any wiring in the future. If open cell is used, we still have a fighting chance. Especially when it involves snaking wire from the basement up.
Hmm, never thought of that. This guy tells me its as hard as a bedliner
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:37 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,026
Default

Closed cell gets my vote. Is the whole house ICFs....what brand did you use?
CharlieFoxtrot is offline  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:38 AM
  #12  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

Originally Posted by CharlieFoxtrot View Post
Closed cell gets my vote. Is the whole house ICFs....what brand did you use?

ICF basement only. Foxblocks.
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:42 AM
  #13  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: RI
Posts: 6,356
Default

Originally Posted by Mike Boehler View Post
Hmm, never thought of that. This guy tells me its as hard as a bedliner
It is not that hard. Comes out easily with a screwdriver.
BACKTOTHESEA is online now  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:43 AM
  #14  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 34
Default

I had a service call this spring where someones heat on the second floor wasn't working after their renovation. A wire was cut. We had to use a saw and hammer to make a channel to drill through the plate to fish up the wall. Instead of a 1 hour job we were there a half a day. The stuff sucks.
Jaw1215 is offline  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:52 AM
  #15  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: RI
Posts: 6,356
Default

Cuts like butter with a simple Sheetrock saw. Either ou had no room to work or incorrect tools. The stuff is not cement.
BACKTOTHESEA is online now  
Old 09-01-2012, 05:04 AM
  #16  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 34
Default

I can assure you i have the right tools. A screw driver will not cut it with closed cell. Perhaps your experiences are a bit limited and are thinking of another foam. I am in the trade and deal with the stuff daily.
Jaw1215 is offline  
Old 09-01-2012, 05:51 PM
  #17  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 495
Default

Use the closed cell. It provides a vapor barrior on the inside surface and a infiltration barrier to the outside. As far as fireproofing, the code (IRC 2009) allows for closed cell spray foam in the box sill area without protection.

In terms of working where it is sprayed, the stuff is hard but cut with drywall saw or utility knife.
buzzellc is offline  
Old 09-02-2012, 06:12 AM
  #18  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Malabar,FL
Posts: 1,913
Default

Do Not use Closed Cell! From a roofers view its horrible. I have seen dozens of roofs that leak over the years and there are no signs at all cause it doesnt let water through. So trusses and plywood are completely rotted out and only thing you have is foam. I recomend open on all our roofs and on my personal house.
flntv is offline  
Old 09-02-2012, 06:29 AM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Senatobia
Posts: 1,080
Default

Closed. It won't saturate over time.
dbkerley is offline  
Old 09-02-2012, 06:47 AM
  #20  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Garett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 24,085
Default

I had the same thing done at my house late last fall, I went closed cell. Not only did I want the R value I also wanted the air barrier.
Garett is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread