Go Back  The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum > BOATING FORUMS > Dockside Chat
Reload this Page >

Concrete Floor Grinding (pics added)

Notices

Concrete Floor Grinding (pics added)

Old 04-14-2012, 04:17 AM
  #1  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default Concrete Floor Grinding (pics added)

I've never done this before, but I'm considering it on a pour I did yesterday. Weather conditions, faulty equipment and some other variables made a perfect storm for a slab that I'm not happy with the finish.

Its an 1800 s.f. slab. I have a walk out door so access with a machine is easy.

Anyone ever do this? I know lots of places rent them but unsure of the process.

Last edited by Mike Boehler; 04-14-2012 at 11:18 AM.
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 04:24 AM
  #2  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2,447
Default

are you talking about grinding it with a diamond/carbide "blade"? If so, I used one to remove linoleum glue off of my slab before gluing down my hard wood floors. Reason being, the adhesive I was using wouldn't bond to the previous glue, plus it wasn't all that level. Rented one from the local do it yourself place and went to work. I recommend that you put a ten to twenty pound weight on the nose of the machine so that it puts a little resistance on the machine.
CLang is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 04:46 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gainesville / Steinhatchee
Posts: 262
Default

Is the concrete exposed or are you putting flooring over it?

If the concrete is going to be exposed like a garage etc when you grind it you are going to expose the aggregate and probably not be very happy with the finish. Biggest caution is to be very careful with the floor elevations, if you grind it down to far or create a hump at a transition between areas you will feel it when you walk over it.
REELKEEN is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 04:48 AM
  #4  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kings Mountain NC/ Big Pine Key FL.
Posts: 1,236
Default

How far out is the slab and what is the FF spec you have to achieve? Grinding can be a good option for an isolated high spot or two, but once you get started it is very hard to stop unless you really know what you are doing. Have you checked the slab with a 10' strait edge? Often it is easier to " start over" by screeding a patch material over the entire surface to level all of the highs and lows if they are minor. If they are major the best bet is often to hire an underlayment contractor to pump a slab correction self leveler over the entire surface. This is what I do and I can probably recommend someone in your area if you are interested. If you are facing a 3/16, or 1/8 in 10 spec dont even think about trying this on your own with a grinder!
Tropicmaster is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 05:40 AM
  #5  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: CT
Posts: 18,361
Default

Originally Posted by Tropicmaster View Post
How far out is the slab and what is the FF spec you have to achieve? Grinding can be a good option for an isolated high spot or two, but once you get started it is very hard to stop unless you really know what you are doing. Have you checked the slab with a 10' strait edge? Often it is easier to " start over" by screeding a patch material over the entire surface to level all of the highs and lows if they are minor. If they are major the best bet is often to hire an underlayment contractor to pump a slab correction self leveler over the entire surface. This is what I do and I can probably recommend someone in your area if you are interested. If you are facing a 3/16, or 1/8 in 10 spec dont even think about trying this on your own with a grinder!
Ok I have nothing to add and thought all the finishing was done as it dries....but

YIKES! it sound slike you really know this stuff . I have no idea what half these words even mean --- I like "screeding" though!!!
LI Sound Grunt is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 05:46 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,069
Default

Reason #1 why I never... ever do concrete.
"A bad day today means a worse day tomorrow"

And the reason I don't do roofing...
"Gravity kills"
gort is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:01 AM
  #7  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

Let me explain further for more clarity;

I'm a concrete contractor, flat work finishing is not what I do on a regular basis.

This particular floor is the basement floor on my own new house.

We pumped the 24 yards in place without problem, power screeded, bull floated, and roughed in the edges.

The walls are an ICF foundation (Insulated Concrete Forms) that I poured 3 days prior.

The sun was bright, the wind was strong, but this was the day I had to do this, so I decided to go for it.

If you've ever seen ICF foundations, the Styrofoam has two components that effect everything.
1. The seriously reflect the sun and its heat
2. They retain the heat produced by the concrete during hydration.

So naturally, the edges had a serious initial set prior to the center of the floor.

Long story short, power trowel broke half way through, got it running again, but lost about 20 crucial minutes screwing with it.

I have no tolerances that I'm dealing with here, since its my house, I'm the only one that has to be satisfied.

This is totally a cosmetic issue, I'm not opposed to an epoxy paint of some sort to cover my inadequacy.

somewhere about halfway through the troweling process, I ran out of talent for how to handle the initial setting differential between the edges of the foam and the rest of the pour.

Hindsight is great, but I'm not so much interested in what I did wrong as to how to make this look acceptable to me, as I have to live here the rest of my life.

Looking at the slab in daylight today, I realize that its probably a bigger blow to my ego than anything else.
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:03 AM
  #8  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vero Beach
Posts: 2,870
Default

Just remember if you are grinding to get rid of high spots, more than likely you will also need to fill in low spots.

On edit, after reading your last post, obviously you know what you are doing.
Think Done Deals is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:07 AM
  #9  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vero Beach
Posts: 2,870
Default

Maybe after grinding, and leveling, do a rough coat and stain? Obviously it will depend on the finish you want and your taste, but it's an idea that would help with the cosmetics of an uneven floor.
Think Done Deals is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:12 AM
  #10  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

Originally Posted by Think Done Deals View Post

On edit, after reading your last post, obviously you know what you are doing.
If I knew what I was doing, I would have hired someone else more qualified
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:14 AM
  #11  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Vero Beach
Posts: 2,870
Default

LOL. True.

If it makes you feel any better, even my finish guys have those days.
Think Done Deals is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:36 AM
  #12  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marblehead, Ohio
Posts: 9,781
Default

I've had a few get away from me as well. Shit happens. Tough decision on what to do. Grinding floors is somewhat of an art. Either way, you will have to figure on covering it with something, either carpet/paint etc. If you did not apply a curing agent, maybe the self leveling topping would be a better option then grinding? Depends on how bad it looks now....but grinding could make it look worse, IMO.
Boataholic is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 08:50 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Trussville, AL
Posts: 857
Default

Originally Posted by Mike Boehler View Post
Let me explain further for more clarity;

I'm a concrete contractor, flat work finishing is not what I do on a regular basis.

This particular floor is the basement floor on my own new house.

We pumped the 24 yards in place without problem, power screeded, bull floated, and roughed in the edges.

The walls are an ICF foundation (Insulated Concrete Forms) that I poured 3 days prior.

The sun was bright, the wind was strong, but this was the day I had to do this, so I decided to go for it.

If you've ever seen ICF foundations, the Styrofoam has two components that effect everything.
1. The seriously reflect the sun and its heat
2. They retain the heat produced by the concrete during hydration.

So naturally, the edges had a serious initial set prior to the center of the floor.

Long story short, power trowel broke half way through, got it running again, but lost about 20 crucial minutes screwing with it.

I have no tolerances that I'm dealing with here, since its my house, I'm the only one that has to be satisfied.

This is totally a cosmetic issue, I'm not opposed to an epoxy paint of some sort to cover my inadequacy.

somewhere about halfway through the troweling process, I ran out of talent for how to handle the initial setting differential between the edges of the foam and the rest of the pour.

Hindsight is great, but I'm not so much interested in what I did wrong as to how to make this look acceptable to me, as I have to live here the rest of my life.

Looking at the slab in daylight today, I realize that its probably a bigger blow to my ego than anything else.
Grind......epoxyfinish
xl883lo is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 10:56 AM
  #14  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

I've decided against grinding. That was a knee jerk reaction to my disappointment in myself.

I've cleaned up the edges and I'm happier with it. Not happy, but happier..

Some pics here....
Attached Images    
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 11:39 AM
  #15  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marblehead, Ohio
Posts: 9,781
Default

I've seen a lot worse! LOL. Are you intending to finish off the basement at some point? If so, it'll all be covered up anyways. Mine is, except for furnace room.
Boataholic is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:24 PM
  #16  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

Originally Posted by Boataholic View Post
I've seen a lot worse! LOL. Are you intending to finish off the basement at some point? If so, it'll all be covered up anyways. Mine is, except for furnace room.
I'm probably going to finish off 40-50% of the basement, so your right, that will be covered, but you know how it is when you do something less than stellar...It eats at you and you know its there whether you can see it or not.
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:33 PM
  #17  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 357
Default

I can't tell how smooth the surface is. Is the aggregate "poking" through the finish? We do alot of flatwork and can recommend some good products to fix the finish and leave an awesome floor even for the finish areas. If the aggregate is poking through and you do need to gring DO IT SOONER THAN LATER, it gets tougher the closer you get to 28 days. Can you give some more insight into the actual problem?
franklinscar is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:42 PM
  #18  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

Originally Posted by franklinscar View Post
I can't tell how smooth the surface is. Is the aggregate "poking" through the finish? We do alot of flatwork and can recommend some good products to fix the finish and leave an awesome floor even for the finish areas. If the aggregate is poking through and you do need to gring DO IT SOONER THAN LATER, it gets tougher the closer you get to 28 days. Can you give some more insight into the actual problem?

The pictures suck, there is no aggregate exposed, its just about 12 hours old, so that's why you can still see the ghosting of the aggregate in the photo.

We also have a common problem with this particular producer that I call "peeling", I'm not entirely sure of the technical term, but you'll recognize it when I explain it

During the initial set, everything looks fine, the first pass or two with the power trowel seem to go fine as well. About the time you taking trowel marks out with the trowel, you think you got it about licked and a big chunk of the surface will peel up and expose sand underneath, there is no fix during troweling for this that I can come up with because hydration is well underway and its only about 1/8" of top mother that comes off.

This is seen forever without a topping applied later.

This is my biggest problem, I personally think it's either too much fly ash or crappy fly ash. I only get it with this particular producer, but I've been getting it with them for 15 years. This is why I don't use them often, but circumstances forced me to use them here.

That close up shot is a fair example, but the pictures don't show anything really well.

Got any idea what I'm talking about?
Mike Boehler is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 04:38 PM
  #19  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marblehead, Ohio
Posts: 9,781
Default

did you use a mix with entrained air? Often trying to steel trowel air entrained concrete can cause the "peeling" or "de-laminating" as microscopic particles of air are trapped beneath the surface.
Boataholic is offline  
Old 04-14-2012, 04:49 PM
  #20  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sharon Springs, NY
Posts: 4,515
Default

Originally Posted by Boataholic View Post
did you use a mix with entrained air? Often trying to steel trowel air entrained concrete can cause the "peeling" or "de-laminating" as microscopic particles of air are trapped beneath the surface.
interesting, but I always use air with my commercial work because I'm always in outdoor conditions, I never get the peeling with my exterior work.

I've never heard that, but will investigate.

Air is about the most expensive additive in a typical exterior mix, so its also the first thing off the charts on the low side with these cheap bastards....
Mike Boehler is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread