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Tipping or Not?

Old 01-24-2012, 04:45 AM
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Default Tipping or Not?

Mandating a 20% tip onto your bill.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...213517141.html
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Old 01-24-2012, 04:51 AM
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I normally tip 20 percent. I don't like it to be dictated to me though. When a restaurant includes 15 percent on the bill, I pay it. When I pay the bill I inform the waiter that I normally tip more when I am not dictated to do so.

Oh, I also like it how they include the 15 percent but don't tell you.
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Old 01-24-2012, 04:54 AM
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We always tip 20% or better for good-very good service. That being said, I would not patronize any eatery that automatically includes tip (regardless of %). For parties of 8 or more, I'm ok with it. Less? Nope.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:05 AM
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Small Table
Against "Mandating" a tip. Tip amount should be determined by customer!
15% for good service, more for excellent service, less for poor service. A customer who gets a bad waiter and is mandated to pay for good to excellent service will find another restaurant.
Large Table (8 or more) Mandatory 15%, particularly in a touristy venue.
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:49 AM
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Since this is in Canada I was thinking is this a transfer of cost to the customer? Since they do have universal health care you know the employers have to pay the servers some type of wage. Then if it is why don't they just raise the price of the food 20%?
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:51 AM
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For the most part the problem in the US is that wait jobs are for unemployed actors, students and the uneducated who can't do anything else. In most other countries the wait staff are largely professionals. This is what they do for a living. So they are going to provide good service. Wait staff in the US go from one job to the next. Not one bit of professionalism except for the extremely high end eateries.

I'm a pilot and have been all over the world. The professionalism of wait staff is usually exceptional and most countries it is not customary to tip.

My family is Peruvian and we travel to Peru often. We eat at the best restaurants and the bill for 6 for a big dinner at a nice place is $50 with beers. I left a $25 tip on the table for exceptional service and the guy ran out of the restaurant and chased me down the street to tell me I left money on the table. I told him it was a tip for him and he refused to take the money. Outright refused! He told me excellent service was to be expected and that he was paid to provide this service. I asked my wife how much he could make and he she told me maybe $65 per week.

In Costa Rica Imperials are like $.40 we drink all night and have a bill of $25. Same story. Bar tender won't accept a tip.

The wait staff in America need a wake up call. Provide excellent service and get paid for it or provide shitty service and get what you deserve.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:40 AM
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We went to Cracker Barrel the other week. I forgot to leave the tip on the table and when I paid at the register the guy asked if I wanted to add a tip to my bill. Out of habit I added a 15% tip, the service was subpar and I didn't want to tip that much.

I may re-think my tipping. I may go to 10% for good service and less or no tip for bad service. My business dropped 40% in 2008 and has been stagnant since then. Why should I be the only one taking a pay cut? I'm doing the same job but making less money, time to spread the wealth (or lack of it).
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:43 AM
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Its the damn Europeans fault - they tip like crap and restaurants are forced to include tip so they can keep their staff...

At least thats my spin on it.....
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:52 AM
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I was a bartender in college and we used to tell this joke:
What's the difference between a canoe and a Canuck ?
Canoes tip.

I almost always tip 20% but I resent the amount being mandated.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kone View Post
We always tip 20% or better for good-very good service. That being said, I would not patronize any eatery that automatically includes tip (regardless of %). For parties of 8 or more, I'm ok with it. Less? Nope.
You are not ok with adding 20% to you bill for a party of 7, put you are ok paying 20% more for adding 1 more person to your table. I don't get it.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:33 AM
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To be honest, I tip more when the bill is less. For example sometimes we'll go out for lunch at work to local place that has $5.99 lunch specials. I'll leave a tip of $2-3 bucks which works out to be 33-50% tip.

However, if my wife and I go out to dinner and the bill comes out to be $60 for 2 entrees and a couple of drinks I'd probably only leave $10 for good service which is more like 16%. In all likely hood the lunch time waitress probably gave better service and did the same amount of work, but gets a lot less money because the place she works out sells food for a reasonable price.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Eyeball View Post
You are not ok with adding 20% to you bill for a party of 7, put you are ok paying 20% more for adding 1 more person to your table. I don't get it.
I just used 8 as an example - my point was I don't mind if the tip is added for larger parties. We don't add to it though, if they add 18% that's what they get.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ThreeLittleFish View Post
For the most part the problem in the US is that wait jobs are for unemployed actors, students and the uneducated who can't do anything else. In most other countries the wait staff are largely professionals. This is what they do for a living. So they are going to provide good service. Wait staff in the US go from one job to the next. Not one bit of professionalism except for the extremely high end eateries.

I'm a pilot and have been all over the world. The professionalism of wait staff is usually exceptional and most countries it is not customary to tip.

My family is Peruvian and we travel to Peru often. We eat at the best restaurants and the bill for 6 for a big dinner at a nice place is $50 with beers. I left a $25 tip on the table for exceptional service and the guy ran out of the restaurant and chased me down the street to tell me I left money on the table. I told him it was a tip for him and he refused to take the money. Outright refused! He told me excellent service was to be expected and that he was paid to provide this service. I asked my wife how much he could make and he she told me maybe $65 per week.

In Costa Rica Imperials are like $.40 we drink all night and have a bill of $25. Same story. Bar tender won't accept a tip.

The wait staff in America need a wake up call. Provide excellent service and get paid for it or provide shitty service and get what you deserve.

Peru is funny that way isn't it? Look for a PM.
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by triplenet View Post
Its the damn Europeans fault - they tip like crap and restaurants are forced to include tip so they can keep their staff...
Yes, in a sense.

But they pay their "wait staff" an honest wage and they aren't relying on good service to earn a decent living.

They aren't aware of the disparity in pay, therefore they do as they do at home.

I work for a German company, and spend quite a bit of time with them out of town here in the States. It took me a while to explain the difference, and now they all tip as well or BETTER than their American counterparts. (I have trained them in the importance of tip relative to quality of service)
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Old 01-24-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by beber View Post
To be honest, I tip more when the bill is less. For example sometimes we'll go out for lunch at work to local place that has $5.99 lunch specials. I'll leave a tip of $2-3 bucks which works out to be 33-50% tip.

However, if my wife and I go out to dinner and the bill comes out to be $60 for 2 entrees and a couple of drinks I'd probably only leave $10 for good service which is more like 16%. In all likely hood the lunch time waitress probably gave better service and did the same amount of work, but gets a lot less money because the place she works out sells food for a reasonable price.

I actually do that as well. There's a hole in the wall at Surf City that we love to go for breakfast. It's really a dump but with great breakfast, very low prices, and a very nice long term staff. My wife and I went a few weeks ago and I tipped about 60%.
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Old 01-24-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kone View Post
I just used 8 as an example - my point was I don't mind if the tip is added for larger parties. We don't add to it though, if they add 18% that's what they get.

But what they added, the 18% or whatever is not a tip, e.g. gratuity. The definition of the root word for 'gratuity' is 'voluntary' -- you voluntarily acknowledge someone's serve.

So what you are saying is you are ok with a mandatory price increase, but then you stiff them on the tip?

It's ok, I'm 100% against tipping, tho I still do it infrequently.
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Old 01-24-2012, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ThreeJs View Post
I was a bartender in college and we used to tell this joke:
What's the difference between a canoe and a Canuck ?
Canoes tip.
I saw a sign in a bar a few years ago that read "Tipping is not a city in China".
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Old 01-24-2012, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Eyeball View Post
But what they added, the 18% or whatever is not a tip, e.g. gratuity. The definition of the root word for 'gratuity' is 'voluntary' -- you voluntarily acknowledge someone's serve.

So what you are saying is you are ok with a mandatory price increase, but then you stiff them on the tip?

It's ok, I'm 100% against tipping, tho I still do it infrequently.
I see where you're coming from but I don't agree with your interpretation but that's up to each of us. I don't see it as a mandatory price increase - most of the time the check indicates it's "gratuity" and I'm fairly sure that % is going to the server (or split up amongst staff) so top me it's a fixed service charge. I do see how you could argue it's not "voluntary" so it's not a tip though.

I'm sure I'm more open to tipping since my daughter was a waitress. She was paid $2.83/hr and had to share her tips with bartenders, bussers, hosts, you name it. Serving a large party is a lot of work and can account for a big piece of a shift. Would I insist on paying less if the service wasn't worthy of X%? You bet and I've done just that.
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Old 01-24-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by baypro21 View Post
I actually do that as well. There's a hole in the wall at Surf City that we love to go for breakfast. It's really a dump but with great breakfast, very low prices, and a very nice long term staff. My wife and I went a few weeks ago and I tipped about 60%.
Batts?
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Old 01-24-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kone View Post

I do see how you could argue it's not "voluntary" so it's not a tip though.
If you choose when and how much to give, it is a 'tip', aka 'gratuity', same thing.

When you are compelled to pay a specific amount, however derived, it is 'compulsory', not your choice, and thus not 'gratuity'.

That is why I say "for groups of 8 or more an 18% gratuity is automatically applied to the bill" is NOT a tip, unless you are not compelled to pay it. If it is your choice to pay the 18% or not, then it is a tip.

I'm sure I'm more open to tipping since my daughter was a waitress. She was paid $2.83/hr and had to share her tips with bartenders, bussers, hosts, you name it. Serving a large party is a lot of work and can account for a big piece of a shift. Would I insist on paying less if the service wasn't worthy of X%? You bet and I've done just that.
I understand how it works ... and that opens up a whole new can or worms. I can see your daughter on the front line with customers being happy and friendly and going that extra mile to give great service, and generating decent tips. And then have to share those hard earned tips with a slacker employee that may not be pleasant to her. It should be your daughter's choice who and how much to share, and when ... just as it was for the person that gave the money to her.

In fact, in California it is. In California any tip given to an employee is 100% that employee's tip and cannot be taken away from them, nor can the employee be compelled to share that tip. Some restaurants pool the tips from an entire shift then divide them equally with the employees. Not lawful in Calif unless the tip was initially directed to a tip pool ... like the tip jar in a Starbucks. Mangers/management is prohibited from sharing in pooled tips, so in Calif Starbucks mangers don't get a piece of that tip cup, ever. It goes 100% to staff employees only. Seldom, if ever, will a manager receive tips in Calif.
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