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Old 11-07-2011, 06:38 PM
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Can someone explain the worship of all things Apple? I saw today how you can bring up google's page in a Chrome browser (possibly other browsers, but definitely works in chrome) and in the search field type in "do a barrel roll". It causes your browser to do a barrel roll, which I thought was kinda geeky/funny. Which I searched on it, I saw an article by a writer and a ton of responses (lots of hate) that was saying it's a ripoff of Apple's accelerometer, everyone copies Apple, etc.

If it copied anyone, it was a nod to Starfox, a game for the nintendo 64 back in 1997. Apple has some cool stuff, but they didn't invent half the stuff that their fanatic followers seem to give them credit for. On the other hand, Apple does some really cool stuff, and haters won't admit it.

Discussing Apple vs anything else seems to be worse than discussing politics or religion. Outside of the haters or fanatics, can anyone interested in civil discourse please explain this phenomenon to me? Please keep it civil rather than dragging this to the bilge.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:56 PM
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LOL I am a Die Hard pc fan. I build my own and rarely have issues. I was a die hard BB fan up until a few months ago when I bought an iPhone. I did this because I was having issues with the BB and the Apple had two apps important to me. I dont ever see myself owning a Mac but unless BB gets their shit together I will forever own an iPhone. It just works. As far as stealing technology, ha, they all do its just that some make the tech play better with others
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:58 PM
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Apple singlehandedly reinvented 3 markets which were going nowhere fast. Personal music devices, cell phones, and Tablets. It is frankly amazing how much one company did to improve the human-computer experience over the short span of about 10 years.

I'm in technology, and it would be difficult for me to name another company that has directly and indirectly had such a positive impact on the industry.

How quickly people forget what their handheld devices were like before Apple entered those markets.

Last edited by Flot; 11-07-2011 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 11-08-2011, 06:13 AM
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There is a great article in the New Yorker on Steve Jobs as the consummate "tweaker". Nowadays, in Tech, the company that is able to refine and build on a solid idea tends to be the one that wins, not the company that brings the innovation to market. Apple tried to Innovate (Lisa, Newton) early on, and while a critical success, it bore little fruit financially. But it built a foundation for others to create successes on (Apple II, Palm pilots). Apple looks at the industry, thinks about it, then makes a product that you didn't know you needed, but it makes perfect sense when you get it.

I personally have been a Mac guy for about 10 years now, and have had all manner of iBooks, iMacs, iPods, 2 iPhones and an iPad now. I am happy with the programs, and I find that my brain thinks the same way that the Mac environment does. Im one of those guys that, for me, it all just works.
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Old 11-08-2011, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Flot View Post
Apple singlehandedly reinvented 3 markets which were going nowhere fast. Personal music devices, cell phones, and Tablets. It is frankly amazing how much one company did to improve the human-computer experience over the short span of about 10 years.

I'm in technology, and it would be difficult for me to name another company that has directly and indirectly had such a positive impact on the industry.

How quickly people forget what their handheld devices were like before Apple entered those markets.
Well said
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:28 AM
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Its pretty simple.....from my view point anyway (computer) THEY WORK. Way back when around 1986 when I first started using a Mac for graphics, Window's machines did not have any software you could use. Mac had Adobe and Aldus. Both companies made great programs for us working in the graphics / printing industry. When my friends needed an IT person to network a dozen PC's our Mac's just plugged into a router and worked. No spending hours configuring the network, just plug it in. Yes, today you can buy Adobe products for Windows machines, we have a few where I work. They are not even close with the ease of use you get from an Apple product. I use FormZ a lot which is a 3D graphics program. To this day its faster, runs better and easier to use on my Mac Pro than any other windows machine in the shop. I've never had a virus on a mac, never had to reformat a drive or any of the other crap my fellow workers on the Windows machine seem to need to do every week or month. They are more expense, but they work great. Thats just me
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Flot View Post
Apple singlehandedly reinvented 3 markets which were going nowhere fast. Personal music devices, cell phones, and Tablets. It is frankly amazing how much one company did to improve the human-computer experience over the short span of about 10 years.

I'm in technology, and it would be difficult for me to name another company that has directly and indirectly had such a positive impact on the industry.

How quickly people forget what their handheld devices were like before Apple entered those markets.
They singlehandedly reinvented three markets? I'd argue that the success of the mp3 format for music is what really got the ball rolling for music devices. Prior to the widespread adoption of the mp3 format, huge wav files were dominant. As storage increased and file size decreased, portable players began to make more sense. None of that was Apple's doing, as they chose a different format.

What they did do, quite successfully, is to completely own the music player market. MP3 players were gaining in popularity, and would have done so even without Apple, but Apple completely took the market by storm and no competitor is even close.

The Apple Newton was a failure, but the Palm Pilot was what got handheld devices into user's hands. I feel the Newton got the short end of the stick, since they (Apple) were truly innovative but got nowhere with it.

We take ethernet and TCP/IP for granted, but it wasn't that long ago that IT shops had to deal with AppleTalk, IPX/SPX, Banyan Vines, and token ring. Robert Metcalfe and his company 3com were largely responsible for the invention and proliferation of ethernet, so one could argue they revolutionized networking with over one billion PC's now using ethernet, but no one seems to care.

Why have other companies not been able to win that sort of worship from their customers? Why is Bill Gates is demonized as the megarich leader of a software company trying to take over the world, despite all the money his foundation gives to charity, but Steve Jobs, just as rich but not as publicly generous, was seen in a far more positive light?

The guy was a genius, but what made him and his products so successful? Is it that their products are all proprietary and made in China? Is it that bloated itunes software? Overpriced notebooks? Was it a phone with crappy reception if you held it the wrong way?

Anyone can be successful if their company produces products like no other, but how did Steve Jobs & Apple become so popular? The guy was amazing, and if he could turn around Apple twice I'm sure he could have done the same with any company, regardless of their products.


By the way I do appreciate everyone's civility here. It's kinda nice, as I was able to consider an opposing viewpoint, liking what PtJudeRI mentioned about tweaking technology.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:05 AM
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He was a master at marketing. Do 99% of the people that have an Iphone or Ipad truly NEED the device to better their lives, I would say not.

Did Steve Jobs and Apple make us think we NEED it to better our lives, YES!

That's called marketing. While they do make great products, they are not without their flaws (proprietory everything drives me nuts).

Donate billions of dollars worth of product and software to schools starting with Kindergarten and in 10 years what have you got? 10 million kids that have grown up tapping away on Apple devices since they could walk, all now ''wanting'' the latest Apple ''piece of crack'' being offered. Oh, and they don't want it a week after it comes out, no, they will camp out a week ahead of time to get it FIRST!

Ask the knuckleheads occupying the parks all over the U.S. if their Apple product has improved their lives...they will all say YES, but look where they are and what they are supposed to be protesting.

It boils own to Jobs being a marketing genius and making the masses feel as thought they cannot live without Apple products.

''Sent from my Ipad''
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:09 AM
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Price can't compete when something is easy to use, looks good, is usually problem free and works


Originally Posted by signmansez View Post

Did Steve Jobs and Apple make us think we NEED it to better our lives, YES!''Sent from my Ipad''

The last few years, Yes. In the beginning, No
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:42 AM
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Before anyone has thoughts of canonization, maybe we ask ourselves what price was paid for these great advances. Only through essentially Chinese slave labor has Apple been able to bring us these wonderful products and not one manufacturing job provided in good old U.S of A. (Look up Foxconn working conditions and suicides.) Take a look at this article, this guy was once archbishop of the Church of Jobs:

http://news.yahoo.com/steve-jobs-app...153651748.html
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:18 AM
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The Apple store, you can get support for hardware, software and they do a good job at it. You cannot get that anywhere else with similar products.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JEVLACH View Post
Before anyone has thoughts of canonization, maybe we ask ourselves what price was paid for these great advances. Only through essentially Chinese slave labor has Apple been able to bring us these wonderful products and not one manufacturing job provided in good old U.S of A. (Look up Foxconn working conditions and suicides.) Take a look at this article, this guy was once archbishop of the Church of Jobs:

http://news.yahoo.com/steve-jobs-app...153651748.html
Are you willing to pay the substantially increased price if it were made here in the US? Think about it, This country produces next to nothing these days. I dont want to start a war of words but its true
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by bumster View Post
Are you willing to pay the substantially increased price if it were made here in the US? Think about it, This country produces next to nothing these days. I dont want to start a war of words but its true
I guess you're right afterall they are only Chinese? but to answer your question yes I would be willing to pay more for an American made product and I suppose the hundreds of dollar per iphone is commensurate with the pennies paid for Chinese labor.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JEVLACH View Post
Before anyone has thoughts of canonization, maybe we ask ourselves what price was paid for these great advances. Only through essentially Chinese slave labor has Apple been able to bring us these wonderful products and not one manufacturing job provided in good old U.S of A. (Look up Foxconn working conditions and suicides.) Take a look at this article, this guy was once archbishop of the Church of Jobs:

http://news.yahoo.com/steve-jobs-app...153651748.html
Who cares where it was manufactured. As an APPL shareholder I would be irate if they manufactured in the US.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by THT Mod 2 View Post
Who cares where it was manufactured. As an APPL shareholder I would be irate if they manufactured in the US.
I answer that question with a question, who cares what an apple shareholder thinks when there's no more jobs in the U.S.?
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by JEVLACH View Post
I guess you're right afterall they are only Chinese? but to answer your question yes I would be willing to pay more for an American made product and I suppose the hundreds of dollar per iphone is commensurate with the pennies paid for Chinese labor.
I was not pointing out right or wrong just pointing out the way it is.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bumster View Post
Are you willing to pay the substantially increased price if it were made here in the US? Think about it, This country produces next to nothing these days. I dont want to start a war of words but its true
I would be willing to pay more, they have the best customer service (US Based) of any company.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:11 PM
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I am working on two applications. Both are for old people. One is called 'iHurt' and the other is 'iNap.'
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jobowker View Post
They singlehandedly reinvented three markets? I'd argue that the success of the mp3 format for music is what really got the ball rolling for music devices. Prior to the widespread adoption of the mp3 format, huge wav files were dominant. As storage increased and file size decreased, portable players began to make more sense. None of that was Apple's doing, as they chose a different format.
There was no shortage of mp3 players in the market. Apple brought them mainstream. Sure MP3 would have been successful - but Apple seemingly put _everything_ into that market.

I imagine Apple could dominate TV the same way if they really put their mind to it.

The Apple Newton was a failure, but the Palm Pilot was what got handheld devices into user's hands. I feel the Newton got the short end of the stick, since they (Apple) were truly innovative but got nowhere with it.
I owned (briefly) a Newton. It was pretty good but a toy. The palm devices also pretty good. However they had ZERO mass market appeal. My 68 year old mother wants an iphone.

We take ethernet and TCP/IP for granted, but it wasn't that long ago that IT shops had to deal with AppleTalk, IPX/SPX, Banyan Vines, and token ring. Robert Metcalfe and his company 3com were largely responsible for the invention and proliferation of ethernet, so one could argue they revolutionized networking with over one billion PC's now using ethernet, but no one seems to care.
I don't know that I'd credit 3com for the success of the internet. That was a big enough jumble of influence from multiple companies (and don't forget Al Gore and the government) that I don't think I could reasonably pin it on anyone. 3com certainly didn't make themselves a household name success from it.

Anyone can be successful if their company produces products like no other, but how did Steve Jobs & Apple become so popular? The guy was amazing, and if he could turn around Apple twice I'm sure he could have done the same with any company, regardless of their products.
He made products that EVERYONE knew how to use. Have you ever seen an iphone instruction manual?
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by signmansez View Post
He was a master at marketing. Do 99% of the people that have an Iphone or Ipad truly NEED the device to better their lives, I would say not.
You don't NEED a boat either; does it better your life?

Donate billions of dollars worth of product and software to schools starting with Kindergarten and in 10 years what have you got? 10 million kids that have grown up tapping away on Apple devices since they could walk, all now ''wanting'' the latest Apple ''piece of crack'' being offered. Oh, and they don't want it a week after it comes out, no, they will camp out a week ahead of time to get it FIRST!
Apple was supporting education since the early 80s. I used apple computers exclusively from 1982 until 1990. In 1990, I discovered the wonder of the x86 architecture and didn't spend a dime with Apple until 2003. Apple's PC products were a running joke in most of the 90s, unless you were a graphic designer at which point you were tied to an Adobe/Apple combination.

Apple's education programs were great for introducing children to technology - especially when they didn't have it at home - however, they almost went out of business a few times and it wasn't until the public success of the ipod (which has zero connection to their school programs) that they became popular again.

Do you hate Cambell's Soup too?

It boils own to Jobs being a marketing genius and making the masses feel as thought they cannot live without Apple products.
Huh.

PS: I am typing this on a 27" iMac, running Windows 7. Apple got my money because they make a beautiful piece of hardware. Microsoft got my money because they are the corporate standard for operating systems and application compatibility.
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