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NJ. Have to love it.

Old 11-04-2011, 04:30 AM
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Default NJ. Have to love it.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/1332...sick_time.html

(Those numbers are not typos!)
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:34 AM
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They get allocated 49 days per year of sick leave. Shit! That just promotes sickness.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:46 AM
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I've been sick as a dog the last two weeks and haven't missed a day.
Washing my hands all the time and being respectful of others not to get them sick.
Lucky I do not work in close quarters with others in an office 8 hours a day so it is a little easier (for others) to work when sick.
I'm sure most of us have worked when sick or hurt.


.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:52 AM
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And Bergen County sheriffs officers and the most unprofessional arrogant j-offs to boot. And people question why we are going broke as a country, collectively.
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:28 AM
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I've never understood sick time allocations, "selling back" unused sick time, etc. Never had a job that worked that way. If you're sick, you're sick. Employer has the right to ask for doctor's note if you call out 3 days or more.
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by sr31aj View Post
I've never understood sick time allocations, "selling back" unused sick time, etc. Never had a job that worked that way. If you're sick, you're sick. Employer has the right to ask for doctor's note if you call out 3 days or more.
The reason is that if don't agree to "selling back" they will go on strike, and we'll be overrun by criminals and all die or get mugged. And we won't be able to defend ourselves because they don't let us have guns. So we have to agree to their demands (I mean, "bargaining rights").

Ugh.

Wait.

The haze is clearing.

I don't live there anymore.

What the hell is wrong with me?

... Now back to our regularly scheduled programing. (sorry about that).
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Old 11-04-2011, 06:44 AM
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The problem is that it is contractual via their collective bargaining agreement. The blame does not fall upon the police department, the blame falls squarely on the county who did a piss poor job of negotiating.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by THT Mod 2 View Post
The problem is that it is contractual via their collective bargaining agreement. The blame does not fall upon the police department, the blame falls squarely on the county who did a piss poor job of negotiating.
I partly agree with that. But let me ask you this:

If something is legal but isn't right or moral, is it alright to do? I say it isn't. I say how can a person be such a burden on their fellow neighbors as to be culpable in destroying their town/county? There are lots of things in this world that are legal... but I still won't do it because it's not the right thing to do.

IMHO,
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:48 AM
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There is a reason why people put up with the high cost of real estate and taxes to live up north. It can be the land of milk and honey for some.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by OldPete View Post
I partly agree with that. But let me ask you this:

If something is legal but isn't right or moral, is it alright to do? I say it isn't. I say how can a person be such a burden on their fellow neighbors as to be culpable in destroying their town/county? There are lots of things in this world that are legal... but I still won't do it because it's not the right thing to do.

IMHO,
Pete
Depends on the individual person. Personally, I don't think its right to use sick days unless you are indeed sick. More so than other professions, would you want an officer hopped up on Dayquil pointing a weapon at anybody?

Beyond that, my point is that there is moral and there is contractually constrained. I guess, my point is, the real story is not about the officers "abusing" (which it appears they are doing, from a moral perspective) the sick days as much as the absolutely poor job of the township in negotiation at the last CBA.

You can also ask, whom is really destroying the town/county? Is it the officers morally abusing the sick policy; or is it the township negotiation team for agreeing to a contract that put in place a system of abuse?
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by THT Mod 2 View Post
The problem is that it is contractual via their collective bargaining agreement. The blame does not fall upon the police department, the blame falls squarely on the county who did a piss poor job of negotiating.
Which ultimatly is the community as they voted in the officials agreeing to the deal, no one to blame but ourselves.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MacCTD View Post
Which ultimatly is the community as they voted in the officials agreeing to the deal, no one to blame but ourselves.
Can't blame the community for the police union...they didn't vote for them.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by NJFISH View Post
Can't blame the community for the police union...they didn't vote for them.

The communities elected officials agree to the deal with the unions, same story everywhere in the country.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MacCTD View Post
The communities elected officials agree to the deal with the unions, same story everywhere in the country.
Not down here, no unions to bargain with. We still have some pretty horrible officials though. Ups and downs every where you go
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:59 AM
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They are heroes how dare you question them. I bet Greek cops don't have it that good. We are screwed.
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SeaJay View Post
There is a reason why people put up with the high cost of real estate and taxes to live up north. It can be the land of milk and honey for some.
That is true. The teachers and the police have all the money. Most others work to scrape by or work to support them. Yes, there are exceptions. Remember in NJ 1 in 6 people are employed by a public paid job. Just think about that for a second. The national average is 1 in 24.

Originally Posted by THT Mod 2 View Post
Depends on the individual person. Personally, I don't think its right to use sick days unless you are indeed sick. More so than other professions, would you want an officer hopped up on Dayquil pointing a weapon at anybody?

Beyond that, my point is that there is moral and there is contractually constrained. I guess, my point is, the real story is not about the officers "abusing" (which it appears they are doing, from a moral perspective) the sick days as much as the absolutely poor job of the township in negotiation at the last CBA.

You can also ask, whom is really destroying the town/county? Is it the officers morally abusing the sick policy; or is it the township negotiation team for agreeing to a contract that put in place a system of abuse?
Flawed logic. IMHO. First, the Dayquil example is silly. Nurses, Doctors, and a whole host of people FAR more vital than a guy busting nuts for going 62 in a 55 go to work when they are sick... and they work hard. Think about it. Engineers that are designing an vital structural component of a building, lab workers, the list goes on and on... people, generally, work when they are sick. Unless they are given an incentive NOT to work. Such an incentive is one given to the public workers... and THEY CHOOSE to take advantage of a system. To answer the rest of your question: If you have a tree that was planted 200 years ago, and now it has grown too close to your foundation and risks to cause your house to collapse, do you blame the now-dead person who planted the tree? Or do you blame the person that won't let you correct the problem?

Long story short... it is time to stop letting that tree cause our house to crumble!!!!! The tree has had a long, happy life, but sooner or later it has get reined in or the house might fall on top of it.

Originally Posted by MacCTD View Post
Which ultimatly is the community as they voted in the officials agreeing to the deal, no one to blame but ourselves.
I use to think that way. And to some extent, I still do. But in reality. If we had morally worthy people in these jobs they wouldn't abuse the system. Yet they do... and when that's not enough they find a way to abuse it more.

Originally Posted by NJFISH View Post
Can't blame the community for the police union...they didn't vote for them.
And if you try to get rid of them, they'll tell you how crime will run rampant and our cities will burn to the ground and all these horrible scenarios. I say, if that does happen, the rest of them need to be fired too!

Originally Posted by MacCTD View Post
The communities elected officials agree to the deal with the unions, same story everywhere in the country.
...

Originally Posted by D.Lew View Post
Not down here, no unions to bargain with. We still have some pretty horrible officials though. Ups and downs every where you go
In NC you can't complain. Your local taxes are a joke compared to NJ.

And... to cover my ass. This disclaimer: I'm certain none of this applies to all the fine THT members that are in the above-mentioned profession. :D :D :D
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by OldPete View Post


Flawed logic. IMHO. First, the Dayquil example is silly. Nurses, Doctors, and a whole host of people FAR more vital than a guy busting nuts for going 62 in a 55 go to work when they are sick... and they work hard. Think about it. Engineers that are designing an vital structural component of a building, lab workers, the list goes on and on... people, generally, work when they are sick. Unless they are given an incentive NOT to work. Such an incentive is one given to the public workers... and THEY CHOOSE to take advantage of a system. To answer the rest of your question: If you have a tree that was planted 200 years ago, and now it has grown too close to your foundation and risks to cause your house to collapse, do you blame the now-dead person who planted the tree? Or do you blame the person that won't let you correct the problem?

Long story short... it is time to stop letting that tree cause our house to crumble!!!!! The tree has had a long, happy life, but sooner or later it has get reined in or the house might fall on top of it.



I use to think that way. And to some extent, I still do. But in reality. If we had morally worthy people in these jobs they wouldn't abuse the system. Yet they do... and when that's not enough they find a way to abuse it more.



And if you try to get rid of them, they'll tell you how crime will run rampant and our cities will burn to the ground and all these horrible scenarios. I say, if that does happen, the rest of them need to be fired too!
Actually, the logic is not flawed. Doctors take time off when sick, knowing they may put a life in jeopardy. None of the others could be involved in a potential instant fatal position. Besides, my point is that if people are sick, then they should stay home, more so in certain professions than others.

From a moral perspective, yes they are taking advantage of a system. From a legal, they are not, they and the township negotiated a contract, the officers are merely exercising what was agreed upon by all parties to said contract.

No where have I said that the problem can't be fixed, it can. In fact, I have done it for a local township (long story but vacation time was being abused and I was hired at the next CBA as a consultant and got it ended).

The point is, if it is contractual, the blame and the fix lies within those that negotiated the contract to begin with.

By the way, as a builder, I eliminate the tree at time of building as to not create a future problem
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