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Knife sharpening

Old 08-19-2011, 08:19 PM
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Default Knife sharpening

Curious to hear some of your sharpening techniques and tools used. I just use generic tools and methods, and every time I'm done it seems I could have gotten them sharper.
My two favorites I'd like to get even sharper:
Us divers 7.25" stainless blade
And
Fighter/utility 7.5" x 2" x .25" single bevel single edge. 1095 Steel.
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Old 08-20-2011, 01:18 AM
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?

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Old 08-20-2011, 06:15 AM
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Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I'll use some mineral oil now. I've also only used one stone. So I should at least start with a low grit stone then finish off with a higher grit.
Any opinion on sharpening this single bevel blade I have? Sometimes I wonder if I should just put it on a grinder wheel. It's a quarter inch think.


http://graymanknives.com/warrior.html
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:55 AM
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One of my coworkers showed me how to sharpen knives and scissors with a file! Granted it doesn't put on a really fine edge, but sharp enough to get the work done.

I remember my father sitting in the basement for hours sharpening the kitchen knives. I don't have that kind of patience.
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:13 AM
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The difficulty for most people is keeping a consistent angle on the blade/stone contact point. Unless you have an exceptional skill in doing so you really need a guide of some kind. For about $20 you can pick up a Lansky sharpener/guide that will do the trick for you.

Garrett's illustration is a great example of what you want to do.
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:31 AM
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The key to "super sharp" is all in the primary and secondary bevel. It is VERY difficult for most folks to use a stone correctly and consistently. Get yourself a spyderco sharp maker set and a strop. You will never look back,
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:28 AM
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I would use the mulching attachement on the deck.

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Old 08-20-2011, 12:12 PM
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:12 PM
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Thanks for the info Garett. Who makes good utility knives in your opinion? The gray man knives aren't fine instruments I suppose, but make good real world combat knives.
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:43 PM
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Google "scary sharp"
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Garett View Post
Primary and secondary angles... ... unless you mean the blade body is the primary angle and the honed edge is the secondary angle? But for some reason I don't think that's what you mean. Personally I've never heard of a butcher doing compound angles on their knives.....sharpen 5 knives every day or couple of days for the rest of your life and you can see why compound bevels is not common in the industry. I don't think I've ever seen a knife for sale with a compound bevel....but that doesn't mean they are not there.

Now it's been awhile so forgive me if I'm wrong on my figures. Good quality knives are generally sharpened to something in the 22 - 23° angle range, give or take a degree. I have found a huge difference between a knife that has been sharpened to a 21° angle and one that has been sharpened to a 24° angle. I like both and the 22° and the 23° angles along with the 21 and 24° angles, it just depends what I want the knife to be cutting. Skinning out an animal a 24° angle seems to work the best, whereas a 22 - 23° is best for boning out an animal. A 21° is great for cutting of the meat, but if one is going to be cutting on a butcher's block or cutting board a 22° will give the knife a longer service life between stone work.

You've mentioned a strop, do you know how it works and what it is supposed to do and why and what are the limitations of a strop?

A strop only polishes an edge, that's all it does. A strop does not have the ability to remove material to resharpen an edge....it only polishes what's there.

If one sharpens a knife with anything less than 2000x a strop has very little benefit. A strop really starts to come into it's own above the 4000x mark, 8 - 10 & 12,000x a strop knows how to light that edge on fire, but so does a good quality butcher steel in the right hands....and I'm not talking about those cheap piece of shit file steels everyone has either!

A strop is a much better tool to sharpen a razor's edge than a butcher's steel. With a strop the user can pound away with the razor on the strop whereas they can not do that on a piece of high quality steel! Doing the same pounding but on a steel will only dent and deflect the trueness of the blade from the contact of the two metals.

And just so you know, honing an edge with different types of ashes is even finer than using a strop.

When I say primary and secondary, I refer to the factory bevel, and the finished edge. So, I think we are talking about the same thing. In your analogy, the Butcher is dressing one of the two angles with the steel. Steeling is not sharpening, its straightening the existing edge. (unless the steel is ceramic or diamond, which is in vougue currently) My point on using a stone is this. Unless you are sharpening a true scandi edge, you are trying to put a secondary bevel on the primary bevel ground into the blade. Notwithstanding that on many modern knives, this primary bevel is hollow ground, but thats another thread. The point is this. It is difficult for the hobbyist to maintain a good angle on a stone. There are so many easier ways to get there these days, hence my reco of the Spyderco set up. It will produce satisfactory edges for most users. Also, as you know, most folks over sharpen their knives, rather than steel them. I also recommend the Chefs choice electric 3 wheel sharpener, again, it produces excellent results when employed correctly, and with little brain damage or learning curve. As far as the strop is concerned, a strop with red rouge or black rouge on it will help maintain an edge for the regular knife use, albeit convexing the edge over time. I wear a belt when afield that i have rouged on the inside. It is very effective and handy when dreesing game for tuning up the edge, and quite portable. Some guys actually "shoot" grit into leather belts for this purpose. So yes, I know what a strop does. It does the same thing the back of a notepad will do, or a pice of cardboard, however, it will do more with more agressive "grit"

I have experimented with all types of knife sharpening, glass sheets ( scary sharp), stones, paper wheels etc. There are all kinds of ways to get an edge.I was only trying to mention an easy, repeatable method that would get the op the results, without allot of brain damage.

If you want it sharp, and like gadgets, then I can recommend some. : Apex Edge Pro- arguably top tier, and wicked edge- the absolute best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzL41ygQG0o

as far as edge angles. Depends on the steel used in blade manufacture. But your angles are all good, obviously, shallower for harder ( Shun, Global etc)

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Old 08-21-2011, 11:34 AM
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Garett View Post
.
You are much to proficient with the editor for me to compare! .

here is a link to an article : http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?...nd-sharpening/


it is excellent. On angles, Asian style knives (Shun, Global, Masahiro) are sharpened at much less angle than European style knives ( Henckles, Wustof, Sabatier) because the steel is much harder and resists edge rolling.

STeeling- the edge isnt one loong continuous "foil" edge, its thousands of little teeth that bend and deflect through the cutting motion. The harder the steel, the more resistant they are. The steel re-aligns the "teeth" and so the points are now in a more efficient geaometry to cut.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:25 AM
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Ok you win

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Old 08-22-2011, 08:50 AM
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While I prefer to use either a flat stone or lansky to sharpen my knives it takes time and it irritated me to much to see my wife dulling it with improper care/cleaning/use so I bought one of these http://edgecraft.com/page2b.html for the kitchen.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Garett View Post
My hat is off to you sir, you know what I do not. I know and understand the knife in my hand, whereas you understand the science behind what goes into the knife/ steel....thank you for the education. Through experience working with knives daily (years ago) I've learnt particular steels found in one blade is not suited for some jobs, but will work just fine in others. Heck I've even got a few wrought iron knives I love. True they don't hold an edge all that well compared to other knives I own, but they sure do cut nice! Now after reading some of that one link you provided I understand why...again I thank you.

Steels and knives - in my earlier thread about an edge rolling over and the steel standing that rolled edge back up is a thought I've never had before, you forced me to think in those lines. Hmmm, I never knew! Boy I love the knowledge that is obtainable here on this site.



Admittedly, I may be a little into the "Geeky" side of knives! . I made my first knife when I was in my early teens out of an old Bandsaw blade ( Big bandsaw, 4" ) I always was interested on the "why" part of sharpness. I found out early that there is actually such a thing as "sharp enough" LoL for the job, rather than sharper and sharper etc.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:02 AM
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I used to spend a lot of time making all my knives really sharp. Life changed and I don't carry a knife any longer and don't spend much time sharpening them. My BIL gave me this sharpener that amazes me. I've seen many on the market, but this one has carbide on one side and works great. It's not the razor edge attainable with stones, but good enough for most of us. It will make a kitchen knife shave in just a few minutes, and most utility knives and fillet knives good enough for most jobs. The best thing is they are only about $3 at Academy. Here is a pic. They are made by Smiths.




I would have never tried one of these on my own, but I'm glad I have it. I put one in the camper, one in the kitchen, and will probably put one in the boat next. Don't knock it till you try it.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:19 AM
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Garett....

My wife bought me a Japanese kitchen knife and they sent these directions to sharpen it:

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HowToSharpen.html

but I can't seem to get it as sharp as when I first got it.
I have a 2000 and 4000 grit stone. I e-mailed them and they recommend using water, not oil.

Any thoughts?
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:40 AM
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beenie, I've got the exact same thing. I do only use it for my pocket/carry every day knives though. Once you get it to that angle it's real quick to put an edge back on it. For my good knives I have a Lansky kit. Once I got them where I wanted them, 17*, 20* or 25*, it's real easy to put them back in shape.
And yes, it pi%^es me off when the wife throws them in the DW!! Or goes to cut something w/ a little metal wire in it. "Well, it's sharp enough to cut it, what's the problem?"
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Old 08-22-2011, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by brockville View Post
Garett....

My wife bought me a Japanese kitchen knife and they sent these directions to sharpen it:

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HowToSharpen.html

but I can't seem to get it as sharp as when I first got it.
I have a 2000 and 4000 grit stone. I e-mailed them and they recommend using water, not oil.

Any thoughts?
No oil at all on Japanese (or any) stones. What knife do you have? Is it a Deba? (sharpened like a chisel? If so, well, let me preface, this will bother some folks) Just buy a Chefs Choice M315S from Bigred1 here on the board and be happy. They work AMAZINGLY well on Asian blades. I have even turned sushi Chefs on to using them. They are simple to use and make the knife sharp with no brain damage.
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