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Brick Mortor Question

Old 07-16-2011, 07:27 PM
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Can I mix and pour brick mortor directly over gravel and it hold up??

The reason I am asking this is because I have gravel under my fish cleaning station and I would love to have concrete there but I just cannot justify buying a minnimum of 3 yards of concrete plus the labor and time.

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Old 07-16-2011, 07:35 PM
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Do not use mortar mix. Use Sakrete concrete mix but recommend a minimum of 4" thick. Don't know what kind of climate you are in.
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Old 07-16-2011, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cross21114 View Post
Do not use mortar mix. Use Sakrete concrete mix but recommend a minimum of 4" thick. Don't know what kind of climate you are in.
And use the weld wire reinforcement in the middle of the slab for strength.
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Old 07-17-2011, 04:01 AM
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theres about 40 bags of sakrete in a yard if memory serves, so that would be alot of onsite mixing even if you rented a mixer. Pavers, maybe?
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Old 07-17-2011, 04:22 AM
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I believe the answer is yes to over gravel with concrete mix as previously stated. How big an area are you planning on doing? Is it just a pad to stand on at the cleaning station? Climate? Is the gravel base compacted? Is the area flat? Wire is good if it needs to support a lot of weight (I'd do the wire regardless).

This may be helpful http://www.sakrete.com/products/calculators.cfm
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by davedowneast View Post
I believe the answer is yes to over gravel with concrete mix as previously stated. How big an area are you planning on doing? Is it just a pad to stand on at the cleaning station? Climate? Is the gravel base compacted? Is the area flat? Wire is good if it needs to support a lot of weight (I'd do the wire regardless).

This may be helpful http://www.sakrete.com/products/calculators.cfm
It would only need to carry the wieght of 1 - 2 people. The base is packed and the gravel is 3/4" to 1" river rock.. Basically what I am tryin gto accomplish here is just being able to wash it down. The area is only 4' X 6'.
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:38 AM
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Per the calculator....... (13) 80lb bags for 4x6x4". If I remember correctly, the wire comes in 5'x10' sheets. Maybe they come smaller.
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:53 AM
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pouring a slurry of mortar or sand/cement over gravel would be a total waste, IMO. Might hold up for awhile but will eventually crack into small pieces, then you really have a worst scenario. I would form, place wire mesh then mix up some quikrete (preferably the 5000 psi commercial mix). You could probably get by with 3" thick with mesh in it. 4' x 6' x 3" would be about 6 or 7 cubic feel. 2/3 cubic foot to the bag (80lb bags), so you'd need 9 or 10 bags? that would be the way I would go. Mix it as dry as you can and still reasonably "work" it.
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:54 AM
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Why not just dig the gravel out and put you a footer in there, if the gravel moves the wall will move
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:40 AM
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Mortar differs from concrete in the compressive strength, plus it has some lime in it to make it sticky. the work mixing it is the same, whether it's concrete or mortar. As for wire, it helps control thermal movement without cracking, but ya gotta pull it up to the middle of the slab.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:57 AM
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I replaced a section of a concrete walkway at my son's house which was four inches thick. I first broke it up into little chunks, then dug some deeper holes in the middle of the section and used some of the broken pieces for fill. My thinking was that the deeper holes would fill up with concrete and act as anchors for the new section. The broken pieces would keep the under side of the new slab rough to keep the slab intact. This is only a temporary fix until a whole new walkway can be poured but it has held up well with no cracks or movement.
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Old 07-17-2011, 01:12 PM
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There's 0.60 Ft3 in every 80lb bag of concrete. You want the slab min 4" but 5-6" is always better. If you go to quickrete's website they have a calculator 4x6 slab at 4" you will need about 14 bags. Get 17 just in case and it's never perfectly level gravel your placing it on. One big thing to remember is after you pour and level. When the water starts to pool on the top don't touch it till the water is reabsorbed otherwise you will have a top layer of never ending fine powder till it wears off.
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:10 PM
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you got two people no elephants were mentioned, try a wheel barrow, a 1/2"
electric drill. a drywall mud paddle. drop a bag of premix in wheel barrel add water soupier than req'd(makes mixing easier) add next bag, or partial pour into forms 2x4's stake the forms any scrap. pound stakes lower than the forms. repeat process till forms are full if your gonna remove forms paint with old motor oil, and run a trowel or knife along after they had some time to set up. run a 2x4 and screen top. you want to make it super smooth work it over with a wood float, this brings water up, smooth out with a mag float. have fun
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:48 PM
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Go get river rock. Cheap and hose it down!
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Old 07-17-2011, 04:14 PM
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Sakrete , I've tried others from a building centre and just recently(Friday ) had to break it back up because of poor consistency and dead cement. Couldn't screed it or trowel it properly .I was so mad I went into their business and demanded that the manager and rep come and take a look at the crap I was sold. Refund plus labour. Meeting on Monday.
Do it when you have shade or create it.
Keep damp.
Don't work it too soon , let it set up some , don't draw water up to the surface or too fine cement , stop and let it set some more.
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Old 07-17-2011, 04:36 PM
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Absolutely do not use mortor, it has compression integrity but not sheer strength.

Wire mess in concrete does not stop cracking, it only limits the amount of crack width and the amount of heave.

Last edited by Garett; 07-18-2011 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by eendreno View Post
you got two people no elephants were mentioned, try a wheel barrow, a 1/2"
electric drill. a drywall mud paddle. drop a bag of premix in wheel barrel add water soupier than req'd(makes mixing easier) add next bag, or partial pour into forms 2x4's stake the forms any scrap. pound stakes lower than the forms. repeat process till forms are full if your gonna remove forms paint with old motor oil, and run a trowel or knife along after they had some time to set up. run a 2x4 and screen top. you want to make it super smooth work it over with a wood float, this brings water up, smooth out with a mag float. have fun
Put stakes in ground so that they are firm , above level or drainage by a 1/4 inch put in drywall screws or what ever to secure form to stakes. Decide for final pour what is needed in terms of drain/grade , put longest level on form , tap to perfect.
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bjm9818 View Post
There's 0.60 Ft3 in every 80lb bag of concrete. You want the slab min 4" but 5-6" is always better. If you go to quickrete's website they have a calculator 4x6 slab at 4" you will need about 14 bags. Get 17 just in case and it's never perfectly level gravel your placing it on. One big thing to remember is after you pour and level. When the water starts to pool on the top don't touch it till the water is reabsorbed otherwise you will have a top layer of never ending fine powder till it wears off.
I agree that 4" is the "standard" for most patio's, walk's, basement floors, drives etc. But he is talking about a 4 x 6 pad to stand on and clean fish. If i was doing it, i'd probably pour to the depth of a 2 x 4= 3 1/2 inches, but let's not split hairs, LOL. 5 or 6" would be overkill, IMO.
I do agree about not touching it until water is re-absorbed. Quikrete/sakrete is notorious for "bleeding", or in other words, every time you hit it with a float/trowel more water comes up. Makes me wonder how much air entrainment it has in it.

Wire mesh will not prevent cracking BUT, a 4'x6 slab should not crack anyways. If you want "structural" support, just buy a few lengths of rebar and throw in their at 2' on centers.
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:17 AM
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For such a small and thin slab see if you can find fiber reinforced concrete instead of worrying about reinforcing/temperature steel. It's short glass fibers that you mix in with the concrete that help reduce cracking. Also make sure you slope the slab so that you will not have standing water on it and put a textured finish it so you do not slip when it gets wet.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:33 AM
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If you already have a good compacted rock base you may be able to come out cheaper by using large 16"-18" concrete pavers and just grouting small joints in between. Its not much fun hand mixing that much sakcrete and trying to have a good looking finished product unless you have some help.
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