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Giving out tickets by camera yet?

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Giving out tickets by camera yet?

Old 06-07-2011, 10:35 AM
  #41  
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We have plenty of those traffic camera's here in sunny California.

Our rules must be different that most of yours.

When a violation occurs, pics of the vehicle are taken from the front and the rear (some camera's actually have video's as well). The violator's picture and/or video are available online for review by the offender.

Step one for the company is to review the pics/video to confirm that a violation has occurred.

Step two is to run the plate and find out who the R/O is.

Step three is to compare the R/O's driver's license photo to the operator of the vehicle.

Step four is to see if they match. If they do, that person gets mailed the citation.

If they don't match, the cite is not issued and that is the end of the issue.


The only variance to that is when the camera's at the toll bridges take a vehicle's pic for failing to pay the toll, driving in the carpool lane w/o enough passengers, or driving in the Fast Track lane without the required transponder.

Those cites are issued to the R/O no matter who is driving. An appeal process is in place for those that wish to contest the cite.

But, if there are no plates, un-readable plates, out of state plates, or plates that have been registered for confidentiality, they are not pursued.


Oh yeah, one last thing.

Yes, the final step is that the companies operating the equipment get their slice of the pie...
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:41 AM
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I can give you more law on this than you could read in 2 months.

I'm sure you can. And anyone who receives such a ticket has the right to contest the ticket before whatever agency has jurisdiction [confront an accuser]. It's like a parking ticket, your car gets ticketed, the owner gets tagged with the ticket. You can pay it, fight it, or ignore it. One provides learning potential, one is more difficult though certainly available to the aggrieved party, and one just ignores common sense.

What I find amusing is the folks who would slow down in front of an LEO, but ignore a camera they know is there ...
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:42 AM
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The company in SC doing the speed cameras is iTraffic. I don't want to get an iTicket so iTraffic can meet an iProfit projection. Here is a quote from the paper on speed cameras. "“The Senate carrying over of the bill today gives this bad piece of legislation an opportunity to be changed for better law enforcement capabilities,” said Bill Danzell, chairman of iTraffic, the technology contractor for the town, in an email Thursday. "
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Afishinado View Post
I should have been paying closer attention and slammed on my brakes and stopped.








That statement is very true.

It has already been proven that the red light camera's have caused numerous crashes just for that reason. Driver's slamming on their brakes to avoid a citation and then getting rear-ended by the vehicle behind them.

When there is a recorded increase in collisions in an intersection with camera's, the camera's are usually removed.

The cities were tired of getting sued...
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:18 AM
  #45  
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We had 'em EVERYWHERE here in AZ. People hated 'em. I mean, you couldn't go two miles on the damned freeway without coming across one. Until Nappy Janet opened her fat mouth and admitted they were all about the revenue, not safety. That was the nail in the coffin. The minute Nappy went off to Washington, Brewer said tear 'em down. All of the speed trap ones are gone from the freeways now.

However, the cities still have 'em for red light enforcement, which I'm fine with. Don't run a red light, you don't get a ticket. It's made intersections much safer than they've ever been. Honestly, I can't count the number of times the light used to turn green, I'd count to three, and some asshole would come racing through the red like a bat outta hell. I don't buy the "slam on your brakes and cause accidents" thing at all. Once they're established, drivers know which intersections have cameras and they slow down and stop instead of trying to beat the light.

So, while the speed trap ones on our freeways were just pure bullshit, I do feel the red light ones have helped.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:33 AM
  #46  
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After my experience this morning and almost watching a major car crash in voloving a family on the way to school and a blatant red light runner, and thanks to the mother who was alert, and narrowly avoided the RED LIGHT RUNNER who would probably killed one or two of the family.
Lets put cameras every where!!!!!!!
Having said that, I do believe that with the camera, there should be an additional warning before the light goes red, such as a flashing yellow 3seconds before the solid yellow. How many times have all of us, at least law abiding ones, have stood on the brakes after a yellow signal comes on out of the blue.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:54 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by 29 NORTH View Post
Lets put cameras every where!!!!!!!
Having said that, I do believe that with the camera, there should be an additional warning before the light goes red, such as a flashing yellow 3seconds before the solid yellow.
Red light cameras do not necessarily make an intersection safer and can make them more dangerous as others have already stated. Especially if the signal timing is changed to favor increased revenue instead of safety.
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:26 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by aln View Post
Just think of all the crime we would be enduring if security cameras had been taken down as being unfair to the unknowing participants
You can't charge someone with a misdemeanor crime solely on video evidence and send them a ticket. (say--shoplifting, grafitti etc...) You will need at least an expert to qualify the video and someone that can positively ID the perp. Then you would have to get a warrant issued and have them arrested. That would be live witnesses. I could not bring a case without that up front.

Moving traffic violations are misdemeanor crimes. We are talking about an arrest without warrant. Traffic tickets are always given by a cop that EYEwitnessed the crime hence no need for a warrant. A traffic ticket is really a crappy shortcut around arrest w/o warrant. It is a dangerous road to travel. And yes--a traffic stop is an arrest. Just try to leave w/o the LEO's permission.

Parking violations are not categorized as misdemeanor crime.

You can indict someone for a felony, but the video alone will not suffice.
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:19 PM
  #49  
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The point is that that the cameras presence is a deterrent for most people.

MOST people that is. The 1% will always be with us.
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:37 PM
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I got nailed by a speed camera, as did my son when he was home on leave in 2009. They cost me $100 each. I now try to pay attention to notice the calibration lines on the street and signs to avoid throwing away more money. I also purchased plastic deflection covers for the rear plates of our cars. The plate numbers can be read head on but not from above where the cameras area located.
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by aln View Post
The point is that that the cameras presence is a deterrent for most people.

MOST people that is. The 1% will always be with us.
Yes so they can slam on brakes the moment it hits yellow and get hit from behind by the truck that can't stop as fast as their smart car.
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Old 06-07-2011, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by osudaddy View Post

I also purchased plastic deflection covers for the rear plates of our cars. The plate numbers can be read head on but not from above where the cameras area located.
No need to purchase special license plate covers, just let the admiral back up your truck to the boat trailer a few times and your plate will be almost unreadable.
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:02 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Seacat FL View Post
Not as big an asshole as those in this thread who feel entitled to run red lights with impunity.
Really? Mine was a right turn on red. I stopped, the "corporate computer" that was hired to police the intersection with a camera apparently saw no need to be accurate in their accusations. The tractor trailer in front of me was moving while I was stopped 5 feet back from the line but the camera couldn't tell. They even provided me with video to prove it. I was damned if I was going to simply pay it to make it go away so I petitioned for a court date drove about 250 miles R/T and got it dismissed. Is that fair?

I saw about 25 other similar stories, tickets that the "corporation" issued without proof of a violation and I suppose simply hoped the people would pay out of fear of the repercussions. I even got a letter stating I could get points if I didn't pay it which is 100% not true. I did see a few that were borderline but the court had to dismiss due to lack of sufficient proof. The LEO for my jurisdiction of about 3 different jurisdictions for that court date didn't even show up for court because he probably reviewed the tapes and knew all would get dismissed. It's a scam and fraud. Why was I guilty until proven innocent?
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by WildSideFL View Post
Why was I guilty until proven innocent?
Isn't that the American way? Especially when states/cities/towns have projected $$$ amount of revenue tied to your guilty behavior!!

Same reason DUI enforcement has gone over the top. Cops no longer ask "License, registration, and proof of insurance?" when they pull you over. They ask "Have you been drinking?" Dollar signs. Lots and lots of $$$ with DUI, far more than some piddly-ass moving violation. I'm not advocating anybody should be toolin' around over the limit, but the hysteria has me to the point I don't even want to drive after two beers when I'm out to dinner with the admiral -- that's not even 1/2 the legal limit at most over a couple of hours, but still enough to get you a DUI (not DWI) in this state. Guess what? Your two beers carry all the same charges, weights and penalties as somebody that quaffed a 12 pack and is over the limit. Ridiculous!

Last edited by Dulcecita Lures; 06-07-2011 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:24 PM
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As a life time Florida boy, I was surprised when I got a photo red light ticket from Ohio. An attorney was charged with collections. I have never been to Ohio. Ever. I called the Attorney and spoke to his secretary and told her as much. Was promised it would be taken care of. 2 months later, same damn thing again. Collections turned over to a different attorney. Now I'm pissed! I now have to go thru the whole thing over and over again. So after back and forth arguing, she says she will send me a copy of the photo of the infraction. I'm not sure why?? anyway it was a photo of a car with a Ohio plate. Fuggers. Result, nothing ever happened, and I haven't heard about this since. But here is the kicker. About a year later, I went to CVS pharmacy to fill a prescription. Gave the pharmacist my name and DOB. She says, "do you live in Ohio?. I'm like, ...WTF ? That red light runner had the same name and DOB as me, and somehow through our great computer systems in this great country of ours, they decided to send me the other guy's ticket. That's why I will never EVER be an advocate of the "red light cameras". Even though I support public safety, and being a retired PO, I think it is nothing more than a money grabbing effort by cities who are inept at being able to balance their own budgets.
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:55 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Capt.Willie View Post
You can't charge someone with a misdemeanor crime....................
not only that, camera tickets violate the constitutional right of equal protection based on the fact that people are treated differently for the same offense.

When officers write red light tickets, the fine is $264, plus three points on the driver's license. Offenders caught on camera get no points and pay only $158.

A FL judge recently ruled that due to violation of the constitutional right of equal protection, a red light ticket written by a LEO is no longer valid.

St Pete recently cancelled their order for the red light cameras because as a revenue stream, they have become risky at best with attys beating the tickets nearly 100 percent of the time. There is an Atty in S. FL (Hollander) who has beaten nearly 600 tickets and not lost one yet.
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt.Willie View Post
Hey Ryan--I am one of 2 Ga lawyers on this site. I no longer mess with traffic stuff--but, they can be beat. I would hope the other one chimes in--he is currently dealing with such issues. If he does--maybe he can give an overview of the current Ga law.

Government Camera Arrests (that is technically what they are) offend my understanding of the Constitution.





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Old 06-07-2011, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt.Willie View Post
You can't charge someone with a misdemeanor crime solely on video evidence and send them a ticket. (say--shoplifting, grafitti etc...) You will need at least an expert to qualify the video and someone that can positively ID the perp. Then you would have to get a warrant issued and have them arrested. That would be live witnesses. I could not bring a case without that up front.

Moving traffic violations are misdemeanor crimes. We are talking about an arrest without warrant. Traffic tickets are always given by a cop that EYEwitnessed the crime hence no need for a warrant. A traffic ticket is really a crappy shortcut around arrest w/o warrant. It is a dangerous road to travel. And yes--a traffic stop is an arrest. Just try to leave w/o the LEO's permission.

Parking violations are not categorized as misdemeanor crime.

You can indict someone for a felony, but the video alone will not suffice.
Make no difference to me who is driving. Unless the car has been reported as stolen to the police the owner is responsible for it.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WildSideFL View Post
Really? Mine was a right turn on red. I stopped, the "corporate computer" that was hired to police the intersection with a camera apparently saw no need to be accurate in their accusations. The tractor trailer in front of me was moving while I was stopped 5 feet back from the line but the camera couldn't tell. They even provided me with video to prove it. I was damned if I was going to simply pay it to make it go away so I petitioned for a court date drove about 250 miles R/T and got it dismissed. Is that fair?

I saw about 25 other similar stories, tickets that the "corporation" issued without proof of a violation and I suppose simply hoped the people would pay out of fear of the repercussions. I even got a letter stating I could get points if I didn't pay it which is 100% not true. I did see a few that were borderline but the court had to dismiss due to lack of sufficient proof. The LEO for my jurisdiction of about 3 different jurisdictions for that court date didn't even show up for court because he probably reviewed the tapes and knew all would get dismissed. It's a scam and fraud. Why was I guilty until proven innocent?

Your explanation makes no sense. Stopping back from the line behind another vehicle at an intersection is not stopping. You must pull up to the line and stop. Apparently you didn't.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt.Willie View Post
You can't charge someone with a misdemeanor crime solely on video evidence and send them a ticket. (say--shoplifting, grafitti etc...)

Moving traffic violations are misdemeanor crimes. We are talking about an arrest without warrant. Traffic tickets are always given by a cop that EYEwitnessed the crime hence no need for a warrant. A traffic ticket is really a crappy shortcut around arrest w/o warrant. It is a dangerous road to travel. And yes--a traffic stop is an arrest. Just try to leave w/o the LEO's permission.










Well, I can't speak for your specific state, so I'll have to let an expert in your area speak on your laws, BUT, here in California, (with the exception of a few Vehicle Code laws like DUI and Hit & Run) traffic violations are infractions, not misdemeanors.

By signing a citation, the violator is authorizing his "release" by promising to appear in court at a later date. If some NIMROD driver refuses to sign the cite, then we can haul his arse down to the jail and hold him for traffic court.

Or, if the NIMROD driver doesn't have any form of ID, then we can haul him in to fingerprint and ID him.

Unless, of course, he is an illegal. And that is a whole other story...



As far as true misdemeanor crimes go, yes, you are correct. We cannot arrest someone for a misdemeanor offense unless we observe it or we have a witness that is willing to state that they witnessed the crime and want to press charges for it (for example, a petty theft at Sear's witnessed by Sear's security).

If that is the case, then we act solely as the booking agency and the criminal action is up to the victim and the court system.

Again, I am only talking about California. Your state may vary...
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