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When will insurance agents go the way of stockbrokers?

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When will insurance agents go the way of stockbrokers?

Old 04-29-2011, 10:30 AM
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Default When will insurance agents go the way of stockbrokers?

(Sincere apologies to all the insurance agents I'm about to tweak, but hey..)

Can anyone tell me what it is insurance agents actually do?

I have had them lie to me, get things wrong, miss simple details, "advise" me to do things I shouldn't have, overcharge me, undercharge me then overcharge me later, and generally just piss me off. I have made one insurance claim in my entire life and certainly didn't talk to my agent when that happened.

I thought I found an agent I liked, and moved most of my policies (car, home, boat) to them a few years ago. That wasn't really my choice, that was the best way to get a good rate for my boat. They were friendly and pretty responsive to emails etc. Gradually the service has gone down and the prices have gone way up. In the last 2 months I have called them 7+ times trying to get my homeowners insurance straightened out, and I can't even get the girl in charge of my file to call me back.

In the meantime I switched my car and boat insurance online and am now paying approx 30% less than I was before, and the online transactions were very effective and went smoothly.

If I could get my home insurance online these guys would be history by now.

PS: Growing up, my father was a stockbroker. For obvious reasons (etrade, fidelity, etc) he is not anymore.

Last edited by Flot; 04-29-2011 at 01:49 PM.
Old 04-29-2011, 11:24 AM
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Well they are like lawyers. There's some really good ones you would not want to be without and others you're better off without knowing.

I've got two great ones.
Old 04-29-2011, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mist-Rest View Post
Well they are like lawyers. There's some really good ones you would not want to be without and others you're better off without knowing.

I've got two great ones.
I agree. My agent is a good as well. Saved me a ton of money when I had to put my son on the policy.
Old 04-29-2011, 11:36 AM
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The main goal of an Agent is to make money for the Agent. I have not used one in 15+ years.
Old 04-29-2011, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mist-Rest View Post
Well they are like lawyers. There's some really good ones you would not want to be without and others you're better off without knowing.
I'm an independent agent and they have been preaching our doom and gloom for years. Even though people do buy thru an 800 # and on the internet we still feel like we have our place, especially placing commercial insurance and larger personal lines accounts.

I do take offense being compared to a lawyer though.
Old 04-29-2011, 11:51 AM
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Default Well Flot, you "tweaked" me...

Yes, I am an agent, and you got me.

On a daily basis I deal with ingrates like yourself that have multiple toys but feel as if I am cheating you because your premium went up $25. You have no problem spending $4000 on a new thingamajiggy for your boat, but them cry bloody murder because OH MY GOD the insurance company (not the agent. The company) is going to put a premium on it.

On a daily basis I deal with people who come crying to me in a panic because their insurance is running out tomorrow, but forgot about it, and need me to bend over backwards, drop everything, scramble to find coverage for your coastal property, then be told "oh never mind, I just paid it on line... maybe next year".

On a daily basis I deal with people who feel the insurance company has no right to know about their 18 year old son because 'he never drives".

On a daily basis, I take phone calls from hysterical homeowners who just lost almost everything when their house was destroyed. (ok, not a daily basis, but the four I HAVE taken in 15 years has left a mark).

I spoke to insured whose son was was struck by a drunk driver and his best friend was killed in the back seat. Oh yeah, that son "never drove" and was also drunk (but of course Dad "forgot" to mention that).

I also get to be yelled at by people, probably like yourself, that are pissed off that their company dropped them because well, you have two accidents and three tickets, but I can only get you new insurance at $4500 for the year. That's my fault and I'm ripping him off...

So Admins here, I apologize if I'm breaking rules, but Flot can bite me...
Old 04-29-2011, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Strike1 View Post
Yes, I am an agent, and you got me.

On a daily basis I deal with ingrates like yourself that have multiple toys but feel as if I am cheating you because your premium went up $25. You have no problem spending $4000 on a new thingamajiggy for your boat, but them cry bloody murder because OH MY GOD the insurance company (not the agent. The company) is going to put a premium on it.

On a daily basis I deal with people who come crying to me in a panic because their insurance is running out tomorrow, but forgot about it, and need me to bend over backwards, drop everything, scramble to find coverage for your coastal property, then be told "oh never mind, I just paid it on line... maybe next year".

On a daily basis I deal with people who feel the insurance company has no right to know about their 18 year old son because 'he never drives".

On a daily basis, I take phone calls from hysterical homeowners who just lost almost everything when their house was destroyed. (ok, not a daily basis, but the four I HAVE taken in 15 years has left a mark).

I spoke to insured whose son was was struck by a drunk driver and his best friend was killed in the back seat. Oh yeah, that son "never drove" and was also drunk (but of course Dad "forgot" to mention that).

I also get to be yelled at by people, probably like yourself, that are pissed off that their company dropped them because well, you have two accidents and three tickets, but I can only get you new insurance at $4500 for the year. That's my fault and I'm ripping him off...

So Admins here, I apologize if I'm breaking rules, but Flot can bite me...
Why does any of this mean I need to talk to you? I go online, fill in a form, get a quote, repeat with next company. To insure my boat, I called a number, the guy on the other end (maybe an agent, but I never spoke to him again) asked me the value of my boat, where I kept it, what months of the year I would use it, gave me a price and took my credit card info. Done. Why do I need an agent that the comercials would like me to consider my best friend if something goes bad. Please tell me why I need a middle man who gets a commission for trying to upsell me (aside from complex plans and commercial plans)?
Old 04-29-2011, 12:34 PM
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Shag,

At least you were compared to a good lawyer.

Rob
Old 04-29-2011, 12:49 PM
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I believe a lot of simple personal line products can be handled with an on line or 800. More valuable risks and greater perils need to be handled by a knowledgeable agent/broker. Here in the southeast the hurricane risk has had a terrific impact on the underwriting on various sorts of coverage from boats,HO and the even harder to insure condo. Some coastal property can not be covered except in the London market.
Old 04-29-2011, 12:54 PM
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Good question - I am an agent.

Not a good comparison with a stockbroker. Lets be honest, a stockbroker does not know what the market, or, individual stocks are gonna do. They just let you know what they think - it is subjective.

Insurance is a more objective / definable product. I (if I am a good agent) should be able to give you good advice as to how a policy will respond to whatever issue you may be having. I can give you layman's terms for the lingo in insurance policies. I can give you advice on how to describe your claim to the insurance company - trust me, ONE word can make a difference in wether a claim is paid or not.

So as an agent, I have many jobs that I 'actually do'.
1) I give honest, objective and accurate advice on coverage, claims, carriers, etc.
2) I am independent, so, I can shop your coverage between numerous different carriers and confirm you are getting the best deal for your needs (if I do it right - your savings far outweighs any meager commission you pay as a consumer).

If I do not do the above - I lose you as a client (I dont like losing clients).

FLOT - some people are savvy enough to handle this themselves, others are not. Some simply don't have the time / knowledge it requires to do it right.

Gravy Boat - I am sure you work for free - so, you would expect others (agents) to do so as well. No worries.

I can't tell you how many times I have a well-off client come in my office and have a 10k or 20k liability limit on a vehicle policy. That ain't g onna help ya when you need it.

Agents certainly have their place. Good day!
Old 04-29-2011, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by GravyBoat View Post
Why does any of this mean I need to talk to you? I go online, fill in a form, get a quote, repeat with next company. To insure my boat, I called a number, the guy on the other end (maybe an agent, but I never spoke to him again) asked me the value of my boat, where I kept it, what months of the year I would use it, gave me a price and took my credit card info. Done. Why do I need an agent that the comercials would like me to consider my best friend if something goes bad. Please tell me why I need a middle man who gets a commission for trying to upsell me (aside from complex plans and commercial plans)?
I'm not an insurance agent and don't have anything to do with the industry. I speak for no one but me.

You don't need an insurance agent to upsell you anything. You are completely capable of purchasing too much insurance on your own. You might even be doing so right now.

An agent should be able to "advise" you how much insurance may or may not be appropriate for your needs. They should also be able to assess your net worth and exposure liability. They may or may not advise you to purchase a liability umbrella in addition to your regular policies. Then the choice is yours to make.

An educated agent should know when certain product lines are competetive or not. Sometimes companies leave the entire state. State laws and Federal laws are always changing (as long as congress and legislatures meet) These laws can directly impacy your company, your policy, and your financial situation. A trained agent should keep you up to date with these issues.

An agent should be able to tell you when you are at risk for violating the terms of your policy. (Perhaps unwittingly)

Insurance agents do not set the rates for any insurance, so blaming an agent for cost increases is ridiculous.

Blaming the agent for making money is also ridiculous. Every one of us that makes a wage, sets a fee, collects an hourly, or is compensated in any way is out for the buck. Even retired people living on their "investments" are earning money. Denigrating an agent for making a living is class envy and beneath civility.

You don't need a razor, but that doesn't stop Gillette for their ad's with the pretty girls/macho men from advertizing their product. Why blame the agent for the company marketing policy?

In the end, you really don't need an insurance agent. You also don't need a CPA to do your taxes either. You never need a lawyer, ever, because you can always represent/defend your self in any legal transaction. You never need a dentist, so long as you can figure out a way to extract the tooth that hurts. (Dentists also try to be your friend--I have several in the family) You don't need the grocery store so long as you can grow your own food and produce. Who need's teachers??? Home school your kids. (You do have the internet, don't you?)

Every one of these parasites (CPA,Lawyer,Dentist,Teacher,Grocer,etc etc etc) charge you or cost you money. Hell with 'em.

Do it all yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 04-29-2011, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dssmith View Post
I'm not an insurance agent and don't have anything to do with the industry. I speak for no one but me.

You don't need an insurance agent to upsell you anything. You are completely capable of purchasing too much insurance on your own. You might even be doing so right now.

An agent should be able to "advise" you how much insurance may or may not be appropriate for your needs. They should also be able to assess your net worth and exposure liability. They may or may not advise you to purchase a liability umbrella in addition to your regular policies. Then the choice is yours to make.

An educated agent should know when certain product lines are competetive or not. Sometimes companies leave the entire state. State laws and Federal laws are always changing (as long as congress and legislatures meet) These laws can directly impacy your company, your policy, and your financial situation. A trained agent should keep you up to date with these issues.

An agent should be able to tell you when you are at risk for violating the terms of your policy. (Perhaps unwittingly)

Insurance agents do not set the rates for any insurance, so blaming an agent for cost increases is ridiculous.

Blaming the agent for making money is also ridiculous. Every one of us that makes a wage, sets a fee, collects an hourly, or is compensated in any way is out for the buck. Even retired people living on their "investments" are earning money. Denigrating an agent for making a living is class envy and beneath civility.

You don't need a razor, but that doesn't stop Gillette for their ad's with the pretty girls/macho men from advertizing their product. Why blame the agent for the company marketing policy?

In the end, you really don't need an insurance agent. You also don't need a CPA to do your taxes either. You never need a lawyer, ever, because you can always represent/defend your self in any legal transaction. You never need a dentist, so long as you can figure out a way to extract the tooth that hurts. (Dentists also try to be your friend--I have several in the family) You don't need the grocery store so long as you can grow your own food and produce. Who need's teachers??? Home school your kids. (You do have the internet, don't you?)

Every one of these parasites (CPA,Lawyer,Dentist,Teacher,Grocer,etc etc etc) charge you or cost you money. Hell with 'em.

Do it all yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ehhh, yeah, I think buying an insurance policy and doing home dentistry are entirely diferent levels of complications. One requires a PHD, the other requires some state certifications, maybe? So you lost me on that one.
Old 04-29-2011, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Strike1 View Post
Yes, I am an agent, and you got me.

On a daily basis I deal with ingrates like yourself that have multiple toys but feel as if I am cheating you because your premium went up $25. You have no problem spending $4000 on a new thingamajiggy for your boat, but them cry bloody murder because OH MY GOD the insurance company (not the agent. The company) is going to put a premium on it.

On a daily basis I deal with people who come crying to me in a panic because their insurance is running out tomorrow, but forgot about it, and need me to bend over backwards, drop everything, scramble to find coverage for your coastal property, then be told "oh never mind, I just paid it on line... maybe next year".

On a daily basis I deal with people who feel the insurance company has no right to know about their 18 year old son because 'he never drives".

On a daily basis, I take phone calls from hysterical homeowners who just lost almost everything when their house was destroyed. (ok, not a daily basis, but the four I HAVE taken in 15 years has left a mark).

I spoke to insured whose son was was struck by a drunk driver and his best friend was killed in the back seat. Oh yeah, that son "never drove" and was also drunk (but of course Dad "forgot" to mention that).

I also get to be yelled at by people, probably like yourself, that are pissed off that their company dropped them because well, you have two accidents and three tickets, but I can only get you new insurance at $4500 for the year. That's my fault and I'm ripping him off...
Well I certainly tweaked somebody. However, I am 100% not sure what you do except apparently answer the phone to be the insurance company's scapegoat, then?

From the above, it sounds like you hate your job (and dealing with people) and you should be the one championing to be replaced by a new business model. You can hire people in india who also don't care about the drunk driving son for about $2 an hour.

I was thinking about this the other day (while fuming over the fact that my agent hasn't called me) if I were to have house damage, a car accident, etc.. it wouldn't occur to me to ring up the local agent until something went horribly wrong in the process. I would simply call the 800 number on the back of my insurance card/policy and be dealing with the company directly.

It took me 15 minutes to buy insurance online, and it took me 3 days, 2 phone calls, and a fax to cancel my existing car insurance through my traditional agent.

Last edited by Flot; 04-29-2011 at 01:29 PM.
Old 04-29-2011, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jko2004 View Post
Not a good comparison with a stockbroker. Lets be honest, a stockbroker does not know what the market, or, individual stocks are gonna do. They just let you know what they think - it is subjective.

Insurance is a more objective / definable product. I (if I am a good agent) should be able to give you good advice as to how a policy will respond to whatever issue you may be having. I can give you layman's terms for the lingo in insurance policies. I can give you advice on how to describe your claim to the insurance company - trust me, ONE word can make a difference in wether a claim is paid or not.

So as an agent, I have many jobs that I 'actually do'.
1) I give honest, objective and accurate advice on coverage, claims, carriers, etc.
2) I am independent, so, I can shop your coverage between numerous different carriers and confirm you are getting the best deal for your needs (if I do it right - your savings far outweighs any meager commission you pay as a consumer).

If I do not do the above - I lose you as a client (I dont like losing clients).

FLOT - some people are savvy enough to handle this themselves, others are not. Some simply don't have the time / knowledge it requires to do it right.

I can't tell you how many times I have a well-off client come in my office and have a 10k or 20k liability limit on a vehicle policy. That ain't g onna help ya when you need it.
Thanks JKO, this is interesting and something I'm a bit in the dark about. You're an independent agent (I admit I have never used one of these) which effectively means you shop multiple carriers for your clients? Which, I presume, means you would agree that agents who work for the carriers themselves are redundant? Just curious - how are you paid vs a traditional agent?

I don't think I count you in my assessment above.

I will say that since switching to an online car insurance company, for the first time in 20 years I feel like I got an accurate and unbiased explanation of some car insurance terms that had bothered me for a long time. (like stacked vs unstacked coverage and liability limits and when they apply to different situations)
Old 04-29-2011, 01:22 PM
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To me it is a value proposition. Sure, I could go around the web and and dial 800 numbers and shop the rates, but to me, that is tripping over dollar bills to collect nickels.

Much better use, and value of my time, to call my agent, say "Hey this is my new toy - insure it".

Also, a good agent knows and understands your portfolio, and makes sure you are not either under or over insured. Does a web page or an 800 number understand your personal net worth (and more importantly, the allocation of said net worth) and any personal guarantees or personal assets pledged in the use of your business? Does a web page or 800 number have the level of sophistication to understand foreign jurisdictional requirements because you patriate money through foreign entities to reduce your US tax burden?

I can tell you this, I have never once dialed an 800 number and got a representaive that even comes remotely close to understanding my business structure and the nuances of certain requirements around it.

If you are dealing with blanket vanilla coverage, sure the web bot or 800 rep in India may suffice for you. If you have any kind of complexity in your lines, you need an agent that understands this and adds value to the process. If you feel you are not getting the proper value, then you have the wrong agent.
Old 04-29-2011, 01:24 PM
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My next door neighbor here in Houston had a tree fall on his home during a Hurricane. He had all his insurance through a 1-800 number. ..........His damage was significant but not a total loss. What he found out was that the replacement cost of his home had almost tripled and he was grossly under insured. When he looked at his other policies he found out they were also screwed up..........He then started looking for a agent that he could set down with and review all his insurance. Actually he was also looking for a financially strong company with a good reputation for paying claims. Being a professional himself he realized that within the ranks of any professional group you have some weak/lazy members.

He got advise from an accountant and a lawyer on how to proceed and actually once he decided on the company he visited some of their agents offices. He was looking for a professional office, staff and professionally dressed agent. After seven agents he found the one he wanted and changed everything over to that guy. He had enough business and exerted enough effort to establish a relationship with the agent that when he calls everyone knows who he is........He says that his insurance costs actually went down and he has the right coverage for him.............

If you have your business with a 1-800 number you get what you deserve.
Old 04-29-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GravyBoat View Post
Ehhh, yeah, I think buying an insurance policy and doing home dentistry are entirely diferent levels of complications. One requires a PHD, the other requires some state certifications, maybe? So you lost me on that one.
It's hyperbole. A literary device. A whopper designed for effect.

Consider:

You have a meaningful net worth. Let's say in excess of a million dollars net. You've saved your whole life for it.

Your wife/kid causes an accident on a wet road. Except the "victim" is a school bus full of mentally deficient kids. None are killed, but all are hurt severely.

Two years later come all the lawsuits and legal actions. No problem, you say. You have insurance. In fact, you have more than the minimum required by the state. You have $200,000 in coverage.

Except each kid has medical expenses of $80,000, and there are 10 kids. Plus, the bus was valued $50,000. (Not even as much as a mercedes that luckily missed the wreck)

You are going to lose in court, and you will get a judgement against you for whatever the ongoing expenses and support for those kids is going to be.

The lawyers smell blood. They've found your address, know where you work, and damned well know you're worth much more than $200,000. And they get 40% of whatever they can wring out of you. And, they aren't going anywhere. Like the attorneys for the Ron Goldman Family, (look up OJ Simpson) they can wait you out. They will be there awaiting every paycheck for the rest of your life.

Perhaps an agent would have pointed this type of exposure to you. Perhaps they would have made some recommendations that concern your overall net worth, rather than what it takes to "insure" your boat/car/toy/ etc. You will never know unless you have a real sitdown with one. No ethical agent will expect you to purchase. They all know it's a competitive world.

It may not require a PH D to be an agent. They still may know things that can save your net worth and a lifetime of legal woe.
Old 04-29-2011, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RI Builder View Post
To me it is a value proposition. Sure, I could go around the web and and dial 800 numbers and shop the rates, but to me, that is tripping over dollar bills to collect nickels.

If you have any kind of complexity in your lines, you need an agent that understands this and adds value to the process.
You obviously have a special case and you may also need a stockbroker.

My boat policy, through the current agent, btw, went from $1200 to $1600 annually over a 3 year period during which, of course, the value of my boat declined. My new coverage was $780.

I don't mind spending an evening comparing rates online to save $800 a year. My mistake was in trusting that the large name brand insurance company I was using was giving me a competitive rate. When I called my agent to cancel they said "why didn't you call us, we could have looked to see how we could save you some money?" to which I said "then why did my payments go up every year?"
Old 04-29-2011, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Flot View Post
(Sincere apologies to all the insurance agents I'm about to tweak, but hey..)

Can anyone tell me what it is insurance agents actually do?

I have had them lie to me, get things wrong, miss simple details, "advise" me to do things I shouldn't have, overcharge me, undercharge me then overcharge me later, and generally just piss me off. I have made one insurance claim in my entire life and certainly didn't talk to my agent when that happened.

I thought I found an agent I liked, and moved most of my policies (car, home, boat) to them a few years ago. That wasn't really my choice, that was the best way to get a good rate for my boat. They were friendly and pretty responsive to emails etc. Gradually the service has gone down and the prices have gone way up. In the last 2 months I have called them 7+ times trying to get my homeowners insurance straightened out, and I can't even get the girl in charge of my file to call me back.

In the meantime I switched my car and boat insurance online and am now paying approx 30% less than I was before, and the online transactions were very effective and went smoothly.

If I could get my home insurance online these guys would be history by now.

PS: Growing up, my father was a stockbroker. Obviously, he is not anymore.
You can get home insurance online. I bought through an agent for years. His yearly phone call trying to sell me whole life and annuity products got old. When I did have a claim...all he did was give me the 800 number to the claims dept.

Not enough service to offset shopping on price.
Old 04-29-2011, 01:41 PM
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to the OP...you don't need an agent, so for you agents are superfluous
i need an agent, so to me mine is priceless

wait...what was the point of this thread again?

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