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Shotgun for home defense?

Old 02-16-2010, 11:48 AM
  #101  
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Didn't read the entire post just jumped to last page.I have a Mossberg 12G pistol grip; 00 slug 00 slug 00. Have had it out twice, just the sound of chambering a round made them think twice. Cops showed up 10 minute later.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:25 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by doughnut View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatmanalso
Appenantly Jones was depressed about his dads recent death and he was a freind of a local resident who he had been with just moments before.


"
Jones' sister, Margaret Jones, said he had been depressed and was drinking because Friday was their late father's birthday.
Jones was in a vehicle with a friend, Joe Harper, but when Jones became violent, the friend dropped him off near the Hoover home, the news release said.
Harper lived in the area, and Margaret Jones said she believes her brother thought he was at Harper's house when he was banging on the Hoovers' door."

Not sure if that is really a great reason to blow someone away.


I just want to throw some logic into this. What does this have to do with me? (anybody other than the partys involved) With how I act or how I handle a firearm? HINT: NOTHING Why dont you post all the sad stories of families wrecked by booze? SHould that indicate you shouldnt have a glass of Chianti at Olive Garden?

there ya go, it was a page back, so probably hard to find. The first question is the one that would be nice to have an answer from you on.


So go ahead, answer.


You dont know what I support or dont support in that I have not taken a position on this argument. I will give you a hint at what I think. I think your position is somewhere around anti-gun, and the way you support that is through your "evidence" so, If you answer my question above, that will help determine where you are actually coming from.
"So go ahead, answer."

As I said I answered alot of those questions. I believe you may have even cut/pasted and even high /lighted my replies.

Would you like me to use a different responce method that quote you and then reply? This is the simplest format I am aware of. Maybe you can show me something even simpler that you may understand.

"
You dont know what I support or dont support in that I have not taken a position on this argument. I will give you a hint at what I think. I think your position is somewhere around anti-gun, and the way you support that is through your "evidence" so, If you answer my question above, that will help determine where you are actually coming from. "

yes that is my point. You seem to want to have question after question answered without you having a comitment to a position. Other than your statement that supports my statement you really haven't come up with anything that would support the other side. So although I stated I am not anti gun and believe responsable people have a right to own guns, you are hiding what you believe but it appears you could support anti gun rights.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:38 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Blythe1022 View Post
If we look at the numbers differently, not guns to accidental shootings, I think you are ingnorring good information. None the less, if you agree that there are around 30,000 gun related deaths a year in this country total and of those you except 700 as your "ton" of Accidentals let do that math. 700/30,000=.023 That means that 2.3% of all gun related deaths each year are accidental shootings. The rest are murder, suiside, self defense or LEO related.
I am repeating the 700 number. I am not agreeing it is accurate or acceptable.
When you do the math, 2.3 % sounds like alot. Are you supporting anti gun laws?

PS.. added after the fact of posting above

Since this is about home defending /I would assume it is against criminals. Maybe the ratio should not include deaths incurred by the act of LIO since those are justified and also self defence not involving ones home ,property or people in the home.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:40 PM
  #104  
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"What does this have to do with me? (anybody other than the partys involved) With how I act or how I handle a firearm? HINT: NOTHING Why dont you post all the sad stories of families wrecked by booze? SHould that indicate you shouldnt have a glass of Chianti at Olive Garden? "

You did not answer this, in any form. You are skirting the question, and you are deflecting. It is clear that this is not a discussion, but rather you simply foisting your opinion on others. You are in a circular argument with yourself.



"You seem to want to have question after question answered without you having a comitment to a position" I just wanted my original question answered, which you have been unable to do. How can I be "hiding what I believe" when I havent dis-agreed to share it? The sticking point is, and has been, that you will not answer WHAT does your theory have to do with me, or anybody else?

This is what you are having: This is what you are having : http://web.uvic.ca/wguide/Pages/LogArgBeard.html

also, I would add that the term "anti gun rights" is oxmoronic.


Positive side of civilian firearms ownership
Defensive gun uses (DGUs) by civilians, per year...2,500,000 to 3,500,000
Fraction of DGUs in which no shot is fired...92%
In most DGUs, a firearm is merely displayed by the intended victim, and the criminal flees. No one is injured. Civilian gun ownership clearly gives the edge to the law-abiding defender, because in 82 percent of DGU situations, the criminal has no gun.
[Combination of sources cited by Kleck in Targeting Guns (1997), all figures]
Crimes committed with guns, per year...1,000,000
About three times as many DGUs occur per year.
[Combination of sources cited by Kleck in Targeting Guns (1997)]

so obviously 1997 Stats, but the point is pretty clear.

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Old 02-16-2010, 01:01 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by doughnut View Post
"What does this have to do with me? (anybody other than the partys involved) With how I act or how I handle a firearm? HINT: NOTHING Why dont you post all the sad stories of families wrecked by booze? SHould that indicate you shouldnt have a glass of Chianti at Olive Garden? "

You did not answer this, in any form. You are skirting the question, and you are deflecting. It is clear that this is not a discussion, but rather you simply foisting your opinion on others. You are in a circular argument with yourself.



"You seem to want to have question after question answered without you having a comitment to a position" I just wanted my original question answered, which you have been unable to do. How can I be "hiding what I believe" when I havent dis-agreed to share it? The sticking point is, and has been, that you will not answer WHAT does your theory have to do with me, or anybody else?

This is what you are having: This is what you are having : http://web.uvic.ca/wguide/Pages/LogArgBeard.html

also, I would add that the term "anti gun rights" is oxmoronic.


Positive side of civilian firearms ownership
Defensive gun uses (DGUs) by civilians, per year...2,500,000 to 3,500,000
Fraction of DGUs in which no shot is fired...92%
In most DGUs, a firearm is merely displayed by the intended victim, and the criminal flees. No one is injured. Civilian gun ownership clearly gives the edge to the law-abiding defender, because in 82 percent of DGU situations, the criminal has no gun.
[Combination of sources cited by Kleck in Targeting Guns (1997), all figures]
Crimes committed with guns, per year...1,000,000
About three times as many DGUs occur per year.
[Combination of sources cited by Kleck in Targeting Guns (1997)]

so obviously 1997 Stats, but the point is pretty clear.
this is where I believe I answered your questions. Would you like it in a even simpler form? it is post #87 which is right before your post #88.

PS you still haven't answere even one of my questions even though I have to repeat answeres constantly your questions because you can't seem to find the answers I've givin.

""Show my lack of logic"

your lack of logic is, these accidental shooting are normal and average people. You can't seem to think normal and average people can't continue to have accidental incidents.

"What do the actions of one have to do with me"

If you are a normal or average person living in the USA or like all the other normal and average people who have been effected by accidental shooting, the logic would be : there is a chance it could happen to me or someone I know. Whether it be the exicuting or recieving end. The exception would be you and everyone in your area are well above normal and average people.

"Now heres the very very simple part. Those two choices (yours and mine) have NOTHING to do with what somebody else is going to do,"

Well it does in my opinion. I don't think accidental shooting are favorable to a good reason for owning guns,

"The dramas of the "yeah buts!" and the "what ifs?" have no place in a logical discussion."

They do if they are real life occurances happening on a daily basis as a simple google seach provide. Even Crackers seach provide a more realistic result for a anti gun concideration. Again I'm not anti gun . I'm anti gun inthe hands og the wrong people. I stand behind pro gun,

"If you look at the number of firearms in the hands of citizens in the country compared to the amount of non-criminal gun violence, you will see your argument is certainly debatable."

I guess I am only using mu own personal knowledghe and experience.

EVERYONE I KNOW who owns a gun has had or knows of someone who has had Accidental discharge of a firearm. or at least claim it was accidental. "
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:18 PM
  #106  
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This thread is going no where. Who cares if you believe people should or should not have gun for protection. I'll keep mine and hope the rob you then, for thier obvious well being. Get back on topic or delete the whole damn thread!
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:25 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by ytmorris View Post
This thread is going no where. Who cares if you believe people should or should not have gun for protection. I'll keep mine and hope the rob you then, for thier obvious well being. Get back on topic or delete the whole damn thread!
If the thread is going in circles it would be because donut is unable to find answers and needs them repeated. I have no objection to moving foward.

I would like to reiterate I am a advocate for owning guns and there safe use to avoid unrelated tragety to a specific event.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:37 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by boatmanalso View Post
I am repeating the 700 number. I am not agreeing it is accurate or acceptable.
When you do the math, 2.3 % sounds like alot. Are you supporting anti gun laws?

PS.. added after the fact of posting above

Since this is about home defending /I would assume it is against criminals. Maybe the ratio should not include deaths incurred by the act of LIO since those are justified and also self defence not involving ones home ,property or people in the home.
If 700 does not seem like a somewhat accurate number I would like you to supply another number with some validity. I will never support anti gun laws. What do you do in your everyday life that has a 97.7% chance of working out just as it should every time? I am not sure of your age or health but I bet there is a better than 2.3% chance of you not waking up in the morning. Still here you are.

I do not have any information to exclude those factors of LEO deaths or self defenece outside of the home.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:40 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by boatmanalso View Post
I would like to reiterate I am a advocate for owning guns and there safe use to avoid unrelated tragety to a specific event.
Why do you keep saying this? Everything you've posted has been anti-gun.

The guy asked a simple question about a specific gun for home defense and you said that he would blow a family members' head off with whatever gun he chose, or the son's girlfriend's head, or the drunken neighbor. Give it up. You obviously don't like guns.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:56 PM
  #110  
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When I was a child our family car was stuck head on by a drunk driver....All of us were injured, but no one was killed....
The bottom line in my logic is that I still believe most people should own a automobile if they want to, and I'm not against people drinking in a responsible manner.....
In short, as an adult I don't believe I should be overreacting to an unfortunate childhood experience....
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Blythe1022 View Post
If 700 does not seem like a somewhat accurate number I would like you to supply another number with some validity. I will never support anti gun laws. What do you do in your everyday life that has a 97.7% chance of working out just as it should every time? I am not sure of your age or health but I bet there is a better than 2.3% chance of you not waking up in the morning. Still here you are.

I do not have any information to exclude those factors of LEO deaths or self defenece outside of the home.
700 is a number being used as a accurate number that I did not supply. I have no idea what data source was used to supply that statistic. Its a number that I personally wouldn't know if it was somewhat correct or way off. Since gun safty is a major part of responcable ownership, I am assuming all information being supplied is a fair representation of what people believe.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:13 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Beuford T. Justice View Post
When I was a child our family car was stuck head on by a drunk driver....All of us were injured, but no one was killed....
The bottom line in my logic is that I still believe most people should own a automobile if they want to, and I'm not against people drinking in a responsible manner.....
In short, as an adult I don't believe I should be overreacting to an unfortunate childhood experience....
lol ... i'm not sure how to take that.....

Being I've stated pretty much the same thing... I guess you are standing behind me??????????????????? Looks like everyone in Ma is pro gun for responcable owners.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:15 PM
  #113  
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...somewhere in this mess, I see the potential for a Mod sending a PM heads up to boatman with the message..."kindly refrain from hi-jacking valid threads. Start your own thread with the subject of your choosing".

I doubt that the OP is even reading the last couple of pages of the, "Gun Ownership, will we shoot our eyes out?" thread
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:26 PM
  #114  
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"If you are a normal or average person living in the USA or like all the other normal and average people who have been effected by accidental shooting, the logic would be : there is a chance it could happen to me or someone I know. Whether it be the exicuting or recieving end. The exception would be you and everyone in your area are well above normal and average people."

That is not an answer, but I see where you would think it is. It has NOTHING to do with me, or anybody else, only those involved, which is my point. You are stating opinion above, not fact. What someone lese does or has happen to them, has nothing to do with what I do, or have happen to me. You are suggesting that citizen X shoots someone by mistake, then therefore, I might shoot someone by mistake and should not have a gun based on that. Thats ludicrous and silly. There is a chance that a meteor from space will crash through the roof of you car tomorrow as well. There is a chance that you will be bitten by a spider. But you don't run your life based on "what ifs" (I hope)
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by doughnut View Post
"If you are a normal or average person living in the USA or like all the other normal and average people who have been effected by accidental shooting, the logic would be : there is a chance it could happen to me or someone I know. Whether it be the exicuting or recieving end. The exception would be you and everyone in your area are well above normal and average people."

That is not an answer, but I see where you would think it is. It has NOTHING to do with me, or anybody else, only those involved, which is my point. You are stating opinion above, not fact. What someone lese does or has happen to them, has nothing to do with what I do, or have happen to me.
Yo donut. Everyone is getting pissed you are going in circles and my repeated attempts to direct you are only followed by you repating again. The answer is there. I can't help it if you don't see it. You've seen everything but the answer . Its probably the only thing you have passed over. The whole thing in general is a answer, there are parts that is the answer. there is something specific that is the answer. Have someone read it to you and explain it. For everyone elses sake...
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by bamaboy473 View Post
...somewhere in this mess, I see the potential for a Mod sending a PM heads up to boatman with the message..."kindly refrain from hi-jacking valid threads. Start your own thread with the subject of your choosing".

I doubt that the OP is even reading the last couple of pages of the, "Gun Ownership, will we shoot our eyes out?" thread

Good Point Bama....
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:35 PM
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Swift and Silent...!
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:32 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by bamaboy473 View Post
...somewhere in this mess, I see the potential for a Mod sending a PM heads up to boatman with the message..."kindly refrain from hi-jacking valid threads. Start your own thread with the subject of your choosing".

I doubt that the OP is even reading the last couple of pages of the, "Gun Ownership, will we shoot our eyes out?" thread
Yeah, I am reading JUST about all (instead of "ALL") of the posts now.

Agreed - "some" here need to start a DIFFERENT thread about why NOT to own a gun - EVER.

REAL friends of drunken neighbors escort the drunken neighbor HOME - they don't let him leave alone and go banging on other folks' doors in the middle of the night!

Remember - you CAN'T fix STUPID!

WHERE'S A MOD WHEN YOU NEED ONE?????????????????

Regards,
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:04 PM
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All you have to do Bruce is mention the word "gun" and they come out of the wood work. From the GI Joe's to the tree huggers!
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Old 02-17-2010, 01:40 AM
  #120  
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Benelli M1 Super 90 Defense with #1 Buck buckshot.












As far as all the gun nay sayers here that maybe your neighbor, just hang this sign in your yard:





Last edited by Sea Daddy; 02-17-2010 at 01:52 AM.
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