Notices

AR question

Old 01-10-2010, 07:10 PM
  #1  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norfolk, Va
Posts: 9,260
Default AR question

I have been looking to get an AR type rifle for a while now. I have narrowed down my choices to the S&W M&P 15 and the Sig516. They are both about the same price. The S&W has the normal gas system and the Sig has a piston type does anyone know the difference? I hear that the piston type is cleaner and more efecient. Does anyone know anything abut these 2 guns?? Any input would be appriciated. Im not really interested in building my own, i dont have the space or the time, im looking for something ready to go.
CaptKennyW is offline  
Old 01-10-2010, 08:10 PM
  #2  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 744
Default

don't own either but have a dpms and bushy. Basically the gas operated system bleeds off gas through a tube under the front sight or gas block that cycles the bolt back. Piston is just that. Basically instead of using the gas system it cycles a piston or rod back to the bolt. The reason the gas system is inherently dirtier is that its blowing dirty gas back into the chamber everytime you pull the trigger. If you learn to clean the rifle there nothing wrong with the gas operated ones. You can shoot a ton of ammo before its gonna affect reliability. Ruger also has a piston operated ar out as well now that seems to be getting some pretty good reviews.
11andy11 is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 05:37 AM
  #3  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broadway/Snead's Ferry,NC
Posts: 4,366
Default

The piston is not a winner yet for me. None of them have solved carrier tilt in my opinion. Anyway...as far as your choices both are good guns. I am just not sold on the piston systems yet....I can see the need for Special forces and shooting out of water, etc.....but for me until they figure out how to keep the carrier from eating the receiver I will not buy one.

I think the best gun out there right now for price, accuracy, components and a great out of the box trigger is the Rock River line up. DPMS makes a good lesser priced unit that is also a decent shooter...but you will change out the trigger. You get a lot for the money with the Ruger, Troy sights...quad rails....but again I am just not sold on any piston gun yet. As with any Smith it is well made but you will pay some for the name vs similiarly equipped and capable AR's.

Last edited by Greg Manning; 01-11-2010 at 05:50 AM.
Greg Manning is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 07:26 AM
  #4  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,683
Default

I agree with Greg in that the Piston is not the "end all". Both are quite nice. The AR Platform in the modern config is very reliable in regular use. I think, as Greg said, there are some great priced competitors out there.
doughnut is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 07:45 AM
  #5  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Augustine, Fl
Posts: 21,813
Default

For the money its hard to beat DPMS....but nothing wrong with a Smith AR. The piston tech is new but it does make the gun run alot cooler also.... Of the major names, Olympic is the only one that I would hesitate on owning...
Cracker is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 07:58 AM
  #6  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 53,965
Default

I have a Bushmaster. No problems and it shoots good.
A Few Dollars is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 08:02 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 2,292
Default

Originally Posted by A Few Dollars View Post
I have a Bushmaster. No problems and it shoots good.
I have 2 bushmasters. No problems, no jams, and it shoots good

Bushmaster also has piston conversion kits, and piston operated rifles
wildgeechi is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 08:06 AM
  #8  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broadway/Snead's Ferry,NC
Posts: 4,366
Default

If you want an AR for blowing rounds and are really not that interested in a match trigger or better than steel plate accuracy at 100 yards (say you're gonna use a red dot or holo sight), the basic Bushmaster is a great choice. They are made well and are reliable.
Greg Manning is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 10:07 AM
  #9  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Pennsyltucky
Posts: 9,487
Default

Get the Sig556. I have the S&W MP15, it is a great rifle, but the piston operated systems are the way to go. You are basically giving your AR the reliability of an AK, you get the best of both worlds, accuracy and reliability.
I plan on picking up a Sig556 myself, they are really nice AR's.

They actually make add on kits where you can change your rifle over to the piston operated systems. One of my buddies just added it to his Bushmaster, and took it to the range this past weekend. He shot about 300 rounds through it and said it is a night and day difference in how clean the bolt and chamber are after adding the piston kit. I'll probably add one to my MP15 when i get a chance.

Last edited by Hollywood9s; 01-11-2010 at 10:22 AM.
Hollywood9s is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 10:18 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,667
Default

The smith by a mile if those are your only choices.

otherwise you might want to look at a Daniel Defense or a Colt.

Grant at G and R tactical is great to deal with
shadco is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 11:32 AM
  #11  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 1,453
Default

I have as many AR's as I do fishing rods (), An excellent set up is LMT. You can get the upper and the lower as seperate items and it is about 150 cheaper than a complete AR. All you do is put a pin in the correct holes and you are good to go.

I also had a custom target shooter made by Andvil Arms, in Lakeland Fl. I visited their warehouse and was quite impressed with the quality and fit. Shoot like a lazer buy the way.
devildogdad is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 11:37 AM
  #12  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broadway/Snead's Ferry,NC
Posts: 4,366
Default

Never seen the Andvil...I will look them up. Lewis Machine does make fine stuff as does DD mentioned earlier. AR's are very addictive because of all the configurations and add ons.
Greg Manning is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 12:26 PM
  #13  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: CT
Posts: 18,350
Default

I have 2 questions for the experts. I also would like to buy one. (I have no experience with anything since 1971 in the RVN). Which "mechanism: is most like the ones we had? I thought they were pretty reliable. 2- What do you mean about getting hot? The barrell? I have seen these things shoot thousands of rounds in very short time and never even heard of problems with over heating We used to cool the M-60 gun with wd 40 (on the way in) and such but never the m-16 as far as I know. Thanks..
LI Sound Grunt is online now  
Old 01-11-2010, 12:36 PM
  #14  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,683
Default

lifted from another site

Articles
2 Bushy gas piston rifles, and 4 M-4s, 35,000 rds.
http://www.policemag.com/Articles/20...ton-Rifle.aspx
H&K416 Vrs LMT MRP gas piston rifle.
http://www.defensereview.com/lmt-mrp...-to-head-test/

Videos
Next, water testing, LWRC, H&K416, Bushy/Remmington/Magpul ACR.
LRWC water test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMZX5WO1uSk
H&K416 water test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwkHktkTxU
Bushmaster/Remington, Magpul ACR submersion test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rWvCc77wvk
These were not cut and or fixed to favor one rifle or another.
doughnut is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 12:40 PM
  #15  
Senior MemberCaptains Club MemberPLEDGER
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broadway/Snead's Ferry,NC
Posts: 4,366
Default

Originally Posted by LI Sound Grunt View Post
I have 2 questions for the experts. I also would like to buy one. (I have no experience with anything since 1971 in the RVN). Which "mechanism: is most like the ones we had? I thought they were pretty reliable. 2- What do you mean about getting hot? The barrell? I have seen these things shoot thousands of rounds in very short time and never even heard of problems with over heating We used to cool the M-60 gun with wd 40 (on the way in) and such but never the m-16 as far as I know. Thanks..

The M-16 you used and that is used today is direct gas impingement.
Greg Manning is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 12:43 PM
  #16  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: C Dock Rum Club, FL
Posts: 6,180
Default

The M&P has a lifetime parts warranty if I remember correctly.
23Dorado is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 04:29 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: s.c.
Posts: 546
Default

I'm really impressed with my Bushmasters. I have fired many thousands of rounds through them with no problems whatsoever. I do keep my guns clean and not overly lubed.
skrimp is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 04:58 PM
  #18  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norfolk, Va
Posts: 9,260
Default

Originally Posted by Hollywood9s View Post
Get the Sig556. I have the S&W MP15, it is a great rifle, but the piston operated systems are the way to go. You are basically giving your AR the reliability of an AK, you get the best of both worlds, accuracy and reliability.
I plan on picking up a Sig556 myself, they are really nice AR's.

They actually make add on kits where you can change your rifle over to the piston operated systems. One of my buddies just added it to his Bushmaster, and took it to the range this past weekend. He shot about 300 rounds through it and said it is a night and day difference in how clean the bolt and chamber are after adding the piston kit. I'll probably add one to my MP15 when i get a chance.
You mean the Sig516 right? The 556 is another model.
CaptKennyW is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 05:05 PM
  #19  
Senior MemberCaptains Club Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 53,965
Default

Are S & W ARs built by S & W or someone else?
A Few Dollars is offline  
Old 01-11-2010, 05:36 PM
  #20  
Admirals Club Admiral's Club Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Pennsyltucky
Posts: 9,487
Default

Originally Posted by CaptKennyW View Post
You mean the Sig516 right? The 556 is another model.
Sorry, i thought you meant the 556, i see the 516 is a new model. It still looks pretty good, and it's piston operated just like the 556. I haven't handled one, so i don't have any hands on experience with one.
I do really like the 556 though.
Hollywood9s is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread