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Putting on a new roof on my house, need input

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Putting on a new roof on my house, need input

Old 09-01-2009, 05:34 PM
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Default Putting on a new roof on my house, need input

Hi guys,

I am in the process of replacing the roof on my house. Right now I am stripping the roof down to the underlayment, so I can add ice and water shield to my valleys and other problem areas that gave me leaks during the winter months.

A co-worker told me the roofers on his house didnt use felt paper, they said that it just promoted moisture against the shingles and caused rot.

I didnt plan on puting underlayment down except in the problem areas. Do I need to put the felt down or not?

Thanks for input.
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Old 09-01-2009, 05:48 PM
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Put it down. Use one row of ice and water at the rafter overhang and 15 lb paper the rest of the way. The paper provides a second layer of protection against melting snow and wind driven rain. Rot on the roof framing is caused by insufficient attic venting and NOT tarpaper under the shingles. I've stripped a lot of roofs and never have I seen rot under tarpaper unless the roof had been leaking.
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:00 PM
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Put the felt "tar" paper down. The other post is 100% correct.
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by epanzella View Post
Put it down. Use one row of ice and water at the rafter overhang and 15 lb paper the rest of the way. The paper provides a second layer of protection against melting snow and wind driven rain. Rot on the roof framing is caused by insufficient attic venting and NOT tarpaper under the shingles. I've stripped a lot of roofs and never have I seen rot under tarpaper unless the roof had been leaking.
100% correct. I own a roofing company

Also we suggest and reccomend GAF Timberline 30 year shingles. They are the best in the industry
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:44 PM
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Tamko makes some great architectural shingles as well. I used a 40 year on my roof 15 years ago, they laid well and still look fantastic. Make sure you use ridge vent, I prefer the corrugated to the spun stuff, and if you don't have soffits that let in air then consider small gable vents as well.
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:48 PM
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Stay away from IKO shingles.

Not very happy after 5 years. NO! It was not the installer. I knew I should have stayed with my first choice of GAF.
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Old 09-01-2009, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by davidkuhlmann View Post
100% correct. I own a roofing company

Also we suggest and reccomend GAF Timberline 30 year shingles. They are the best in the industry

Awesome- they are the ones I am using!

Thanks for all the input guys. My hats off to those of you who do this for a living, you earn every single penny.

My shingles are in such bad shape that it is easier for me to just pull it then off vs using the roofing spade, doing it by hand leaves the tar paper in tact. I assume that if its in good shape still I can just re-use it instead of replacing the paper?

Also, I plan to apply the ice and water shield directly to the underlayment and stop the felt next to it. Is this correct? Thanks for the info everyone.
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Old 09-01-2009, 07:54 PM
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I don't know what to say, most new construction I see here in MA and NH these days does not use paper. In the 3 houses I have built we used 6' of Ice & Water at the edges and no paper.
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:28 PM
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Go to the shingle manufacturer's web site and consult their installation manual for the shingle you intend to use. If it says use felt, use it.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:45 AM
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Considering the cost of the shingles, ice and water (i&w) and the labour I’d lay down new felt paper. Check with the manufacture of the shingles, if they say felt paper is needed then install it, otherwise you will void all warrantees.

* makes sure you get all the old nails out or at least nailed down and the roof swept before installing your new roofing material.

For a premo job run 3' of i&w out on each side of your valleys, 6' total; make sure you overlap the i&w in the middle of that valley. Depending on the pitch (slope) of your roof and the amount of insulation in the attic 3' of i&w at the soffit area is generally enough......6' up certainly can’t hurt! Again for that premo job, if your roof has any gable ends you would probably want to lay down a strip of i&w before you install your starter strips.....3' in would be plenty, there is no need for 6' here. Ice and water around any chimneys coming up through the roof will be a must as well.

* you do know about laying down a starter strip of cut shingles right?

Will you be installing new valleys? Personally I would. If not, make sure you caulk ALL the old nail holes before you install your shingles. If you have a chimney then you will have flashing around the base of it, make sure it is in good condition and not filled with nail holes.....it is cheaper to replace in today then it is to be depending on sealed old holes and have a leak tomorrow.

Now is the time to install a turbine or a few turbine roof vents or increase the number of roof/ attic vents.....try to keep the vents on the back side of the roof so they don’t show from the road.
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Old 09-02-2009, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by PMaine View Post
Awesome- they are the ones I am using!

Thanks for all the input guys. My hats off to those of you who do this for a living, you earn every single penny.

My shingles are in such bad shape that it is easier for me to just pull it then off vs using the roofing spade, doing it by hand leaves the tar paper in tact. I assume that if its in good shape still I can just re-use it instead of replacing the paper?

Also, I plan to apply the ice and water shield directly to the underlayment and stop the felt next to it. Is this correct? Thanks for the info everyone.
Always put new felt it is the cheapest part of the install. Ice and Water sheild goes on first along the gutters/lower end of the roof. It DOES NOT GO OVER THE FELT> then use felt from that point up to the peak.

Make sure if you use box vents that you have one for no less than every 300 sqft. I prefer ridge vent looks cleaner. By not having enough ventalation you will cause shorter life of the shingles and they will usually curl up on the corners. Besides it will void the warranty from GAF.

GAF has some great video's on their website. http://www.gaf.com/General/GAFIntro_MAIN.asp

If you have any questions just ask here or PM me.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:01 AM
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i would put ice and water over the entire roof.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by herman4 View Post
i would put ice and water over the entire roof.
There is no reason that you couldn't accept it would be a big waste of money. The purpose of it is to help prevent the ice dams from coming up under the shingles from ice build up along the gutters or any protrusion out of the roof ie skylights, chimney etc. Building code in most states that actually have a need for I&W is where you actually have an ice and snow problem is the first layer to be I&W then felt from there up. Not sure where the OP lives but if you live in the south probably don't need the I&W shield.

I have seen many roofs here in Iowa and Minnesotta that don't have either the I&W or felt. I personally wouldn't put on a roof like that.
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:13 AM
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Thanks again.

I live in Maine and the reason for the re-roof is the leaking I get from ice dams- plus the 15 year shingles are at year 17. It has been getting bad the past 1-2 years, this past winter was horrible in the spring. There is no ice and water shield on there now, I plan to do 6' in the valleys, and 3' up from the gutters.

Another guy at work told me when he built his house in 1988 they didnt use felt, during the re-roof 2 years ago they didnt either and he has never had a leak.

Does the felt paper really add protection? I am not fighing the cost/application, rather curious what it will provide.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by PMaine View Post
Thanks again.

I live in Maine and the reason for the re-roof is the leaking I get from ice dams- plus the 15 year shingles are at year 17. It has been getting bad the past 1-2 years, this past winter was horrible in the spring. There is no ice and water shield on there now, I plan to do 6' in the valleys, and 3' up from the gutters.

Another guy at work told me when he built his house in 1988 they didnt use felt, during the re-roof 2 years ago they didnt either and he has never had a leak.

Does the felt paper really add protection? I am not fighing the cost/application, rather curious what it will provide.
Felt is cheap insurance it only cost about $20 for a 4 sq roll of 15lb and same price for 2 sq roll of 30 lb. You can get by with the 15lb.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PMaine View Post
Awesome- they are the ones I am using!

Thanks for all the input guys. My hats off to those of you who do this for a living, you earn every single penny.

My shingles are in such bad shape that it is easier for me to just pull it then off vs using the roofing spade, doing it by hand leaves the tar paper in tact. I assume that if its in good shape still I can just re-use it instead of replacing the paper?

Also, I plan to apply the ice and water shield directly to the underlayment and stop the felt next to it. Is this correct? Thanks for the info everyone.
Replace the paper, it's got 5 holes in it for every shingle and by the time you get the roof stripped, they'll be rips everywhere. Paper is the cheapest part of the job. The paper goes over the I & W about 6 inches and every subsequent row of paper goes over the previous one by the same amount. Think water running down the roof, every time it drips off something it must land on the next piece to keep it off the plywood till it runs off the roof. On steeper pitches you can get away with less overlap but keep in mind that you'll be walking on the paper while shingling and you don't want to wreck it before you're done. Overlap flashing as well. Gravity never takes a day off but caulking is only temporary.
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:52 AM
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it would be foolish not to install a felt paper under your shingles regardless of the situation.
make one mistake during installation of the shigles and you'll be tearing them off and re-doing.
if you've never installed them, hire someone who has to help out and show you the proper flashing details. screw up the details and you'll have future "pain in the ass" problems.
GL
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by PMaine View Post

Also, I plan to apply the ice and water shield directly to the underlayment and stop the felt next to it. Is this correct? Thanks for the info everyone.

Apply the Ice shield Directy to the Undelayment - Plywood I assume. But ,do not stop the felt next to it. You want at least a 4 inch overlap of layers. Make sure you do that with each layer of felt going up too.

FYI.. That felt is old school. Every home improvement store carries underlayment that is rubber based now. you apply it the exact same way too. It cost a little more, but its thicker and moisture will not penetrate it.
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:21 PM
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PM if you can understand and impliment what has been written here on this page you are well on your way to having a beautiful roof.

About the only things missing are chaulk lines and where to start your first shingle........you don't want to end up with little 2-3" pieces of shingles at the ends of your rows, especially if you've got some gable ends. By the sounds of it davidkuhlmann or Ramifications should be able to define the above two points easier then I could.....I'd take pages.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:02 AM
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Also we suggest and reccomend GAF Timberline 30 year shingles. They are the best in the industry
I prefer Owens Corning. I had a friend who used GAF and it fished mouth. Stay away from GAF.
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