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Day traders taxed out of existence

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Day traders taxed out of existence

Old 03-07-2009, 07:39 PM
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Default Day traders taxed out of existence

The market would stop. Totally illquid. Very scary.


This would be a complete and total nightmare and I can’t think of a worse idea.
What the hell way to make up all the lost money.

Let's be hopeful that some real thought is done before this idea takes root.
People from all over the world use the US markets because of the liquidity and transactional costs.

If we destroy what is left of the free market, what will be left to pass along to our children besides a mountain of debt?

Oh a small fee, right. 1/4%. WTF.

Last edited by timebandit; 03-07-2009 at 07:49 PM.
Old 03-07-2009, 08:12 PM
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The problem with the world's economy is that it has become based on speculation rather than value. Day traders in my mind are bottom feeders... like all scavengers, they have their purpose.
Old 03-07-2009, 09:28 PM
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Bottom feeders?Thats pretty funny.I guess buy,hold,and get slaughtered is the better way to invest.
Old 03-07-2009, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tka View Post
Bottom feeders?Thats pretty funny.I guess buy,hold,and get slaughtered is the better way to invest.
I don't think he's referring to investment methods. He's referring to the fact that day traders produce nothing and contribute nothing to society.
Old 03-07-2009, 11:24 PM
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As Day Traders need to have at least $25,000 in an account to truly day-trade, for the majority, it ain't chump change to have that kind of bank to trade with. Who on here has $25,000 to play with/risk? Why even be concerned about them in the least bit? I take the time to type this as I can't sleep and it keeps the mind and my fast fingers sharp. I laugh at CopyKat's description of the day trader but the first thing that I think of that is worse than the day trader, if they are bad at all, is degenerate gamblers as true day trading takes at least some skill. Thousands if not millions would not do it if it were not profitable, and while many gamble, the vast majority do not win, and being taxed at 25%?, still, it is all profit. I know the point that I like to make/keep making, and that was taught to me was, would you turn down a raise just because you knew you'd have to pay more taxes? Do star atheletes turn down offers to double their salary, say from 14 million to 28 million-see Manny Ramirez, because they don't want to be in a higher tax bracket?, I think NOT.

I believe that the reason for the market/the economy, being so very messed up, is because of the proliferation, worldwide, of the "trader"-in all their many iterations, that keep buying and selling, buying and selling so that a bull market might never be possible again. Yes, trading and NOT investing-they sure are not the same or anywhere near close nowadays, is the wise and easy way to make some money in the stock market.
Old 03-08-2009, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tka View Post
I guess buy,hold,and get slaughtered is the better way to invest.
That's the investment strategy of 401k managers.
Old 03-08-2009, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by D110 View Post
The problem with the world's economy is that it has become based on speculation rather than value. Day traders in my mind are bottom feeders... like all scavengers, they have their purpose.
Day traders are spectulative opportunists, certainly not bottom feeders. In fact the heyday of the internet mom day trader was during the peak of the bubbles.

The original poster is quite correct. Disincentives placed in front of people are a terrible way to regenerate a deteriorating economy. Profits=Prosperity. Prosperity increases the tax base, overall spending, more jobs for everyone, better economy. An excise tax on day trading (any profits are already subject to short term gain tax) is a poorly conceived socialistic attempt at a moral judgement inappropriate for a free market.

Most day traders know that most lose money. I've known a number of people that "used" to day trade. Not one made money in the long run. All were wiped out (nearly completely) when the bubble's crashed.

Day traders, in fact any traders, make for more efficient market. Eyeball also has it correct. Everyone of us who have lost our A$$es in our retirement accounts were "speculating" our stocks and bonds would rise in price over time. Long term speculation appears just as dangerous as short term speculation these days.
Old 03-08-2009, 06:29 AM
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Next, non-take delivery Oil speculators
Old 03-08-2009, 07:08 AM
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I have a neighbor who lost over 2M day trading on his own about 2 years ago.
Old 03-08-2009, 07:25 AM
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is he still your neighbor?
Old 03-08-2009, 08:56 AM
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Default I don't understand?

There were Day Traders when the marginal rate was 60+%. If you are a registered trader you can deduct your short term losses against profits without wash sale implications. There are no LT gains/losses if you are a trader.

What's the problem?
Old 03-08-2009, 09:03 AM
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In 1968 I went to work (in the back office) at the New York Stock Exchange. One of the first things they said to me was "Day trading is a sucker's game." Fortunately, I never forget it.
Old 03-08-2009, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by t3rockhall View Post
In 1968 I went to work (in the back office) at the New York Stock Exchange. One of the first things they said to me was "Day trading is a sucker's game." Fortunately, I never forget it.
Many of us would say that most "investment firms" managed accounts are a "sucker's game." I certainly would!
Old 03-08-2009, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by tarnold View Post
Many of us would say that most "investment firms" managed accounts are a "sucker's game." I certainly would!
My 401k got destroyed after the tech crash.I fell for the dollar cost averaging,its on sale,you don't need it for 30yrs,etc.I took the advice of our advisor and let it ride.It took me until the end of 2006,beginning of 2007 to get back to where it was.I changed jobs in 2007 and was able to roll my 401k to a self directed ira so I have been in cash through this trainwreck.I couldn't imagine how pissed I would of been to get wiped out once,recover after 4-5 years,and then lose 50+% again.
Old 03-08-2009, 10:54 AM
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What is the problem, Timebandit?
Old 03-08-2009, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by t3rockhall View Post
In 1968 I went to work (in the back office) at the New York Stock Exchange. One of the first things they said to me was "Day trading is a sucker's game." Fortunately, I never forget it.

When day trading was a fad in the early to mid-90's, day traders, on average, lost 100% of what they invested in their portfolios. I think it has become a little more sophisticated since then. Nothing wrong with it, just think day traders need to invest the time to learn which investments are appropriate for them, which one aren't. In that regard, a day traders could whip serious ass on a licensed investment acct manager that supposedly know what they are doing.
Old 03-08-2009, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by D110 View Post
The problem with the world's economy is that it has become based on speculation rather than value. Day traders in my mind are bottom feeders... like all scavengers, they have their purpose.
Day traders buy and sell. They're not the problem.

The real scumbags are the speculators who drive up commodity prices and the other scumbags are the hedge funds that short the market.

Short selling a company is anti-American if you ask me.



.
Old 03-08-2009, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pbr streetgang View Post
Day traders buy and sell. They're not the problem.
...
Short selling a company is anti-American if you ask me.
First, day traders short all the time. That's half their arsenal. The technical indicators don't only work one way.

But saying short selling is anti-American, that's hilarious. It reminds me of the people around a craps table that get pissed at the "don't" betters. Like that has something to do with the outcome.

There is not a long-term cause-effect relationship between the price of a stock and the short interest. If a stock tanks and stays down, it is reflecting its true value. Short sellers aren't responsible for CIT and BAC being penny stocks.
Old 03-08-2009, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by knowhowiroll View Post
is he still your neighbor?
Funny but yes he is.

He's got his wife working her butt off and he is now a stay at home grand dad after being retired. They did not however build the dream home they planned. He's still in the 1930's home they bought with a septic system that failed Title 5 inspection when they bought it. I have no idea what has happened to the escrow act for the new system.
Old 03-08-2009, 02:56 PM
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Could you get stock tips for us from him? Just think if we took his picks and took the opposite position we could become millionares.

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